Israel = the Good Guys in the Middle East; Turks proving to be our enemies

Garmel said:
On paper, yes. In reality Hamas is.

You don't stop bombing because they're using their own people as shields. I hate to keep referring back to WWII but that war teaches us your ideas don't work.
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I don't think it is as simple as saying it is the government on paper. Remember the big issue there is will the Palestinians be allowed to have their own state. That is what is meant when people say "the two state solution". Gaza does not have its own state which makes it cloudy on what Hamas actually is. Add to that, several if not many state functions over Gaza are performed by Israel.

In WW2 there were multiple industrial states at war. The Israel/Palestine conflict is of a whole other category. Using lessons from one to apply to the other are missing the whole boat.

But WW2 is seen as a "good" war so as long as someone can draw analogies back to it they justify what they are doing in many peoples' minds.
 
Garmel said:
You don't stop bombing because they're using their own people as shields. I hate to keep referring back to WWII but that war teaches us your ideas don't work.
Click to expand...

To add this. Which countries in WW2 used citizens as human shields? Did that even happen in WW2? No. The militaries were in uniform and were on bases and on battle fields. They weren't embedded within the population. Can you think of a war where there were human shields? If so, how was that war prosecuted?
 
Hamas uses rape as a weapon of their terrorism

"The atrocities that we saw on October 7 are almost beyond human description or beyond our capacity to digest. And we've talked about them before, but the sexual violence that we saw on October 7 is beyond anything that I've seen either."

"...mounting evidence that rape occurred during the attacks on October 7, including graphic video footage of bodies, videos of Hamas fighters admitting under interrogation that rape occurred and testimony from Israeli police officers and witnesses to the attack and its aftermath. Speakers who prepared bodies for burial described evidence that militants gang raped some victims and purposely shot or mutilated victims in genital regions."

"
“I was called into a house, I was told there are few bodies over there. I saw in front of my eyes a woman, laying (down). She was naked and she had nails …,” Greyman managed to say before pausing for a long time, struggling to get the words out.

“She had nails and different objects in her female organs. Her body was brutalized in a way that we could not identify her,” he added, the trauma clearly visible on his face."

Sexual violence inflicted by Hamas 'beyond anything I've seen': Secretary of State Antony Blinken

How Hamas Used Sexual Violence on October 7th

What we know about rape and sexual violence inflicted by Hamas during its terror attack on Israel | CNN

Hamas uses rape as weapon. Why are the left's #MeToo feminists silent?
 
Here's an interesting passage:

Bible Gateway passage: Joel 1-3 - New International Version
The word of the Lord that came to Joel son of Pethuel.

“...
In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will put them on trial
for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel,

...

Shall I leave their innocent blood unavenged?
No, I will not.”
 
Chop said:
Hamas uses rape as a weapon of their terrorism

"The atrocities that we saw on October 7 are almost beyond human description or beyond our capacity to digest. And we've talked about them before, but the sexual violence that we saw on October 7 is beyond anything that I've seen either."

"...mounting evidence that rape occurred during the attacks on October 7, including graphic video footage of bodies, videos of Hamas fighters admitting under interrogation that rape occurred and testimony from Israeli police officers and witnesses to the attack and its aftermath. Speakers who prepared bodies for burial described evidence that militants gang raped some victims and purposely shot or mutilated victims in genital regions."

"
“I was called into a house, I was told there are few bodies over there. I saw in front of my eyes a woman, laying (down). She was naked and she had nails …,” Greyman managed to say before pausing for a long time, struggling to get the words out.

“She had nails and different objects in her female organs. Her body was brutalized in a way that we could not identify her,” he added, the trauma clearly visible on his face."

Sexual violence inflicted by Hamas 'beyond anything I've seen': Secretary of State Antony Blinken

How Hamas Used Sexual Violence on October 7th

What we know about rape and sexual violence inflicted by Hamas during its terror attack on Israel | CNN

Hamas uses rape as weapon. Why are the left's #MeToo feminists silent?
Click to expand...

What is your point Chop? That the evil of Hamas justifies Israel killing Palestinians who aren't a part of Hamas? Anyone who has half a brain understands that Hamas is evil and that Israel needs to defend themselves against them. I have never said anything else. But little girls dead under rubble in Gaza didn't commit a crime. Pretending they did or that their lives don't matter is missing the point completely.

As brutal as Hamas is they have little capability. They killed about 1000 people on October 7. That was way beyond their normal capacity and Israel ended their threat quickly. Now Israel has killed 10,000-20,000 confirmed with uncounted dead buried in rubble. Israel has the upper hand in every way militarily. They can methodically take out Hamas. They have the ability to keep Hamas from breaking out of Gaza. It took a major intelligence blunder to allow October 7 to happen. The answer is to assassinate Hamas leaders many of whom don't even live in Gaza. Bombing Gaza doesn't defeat Hamas. It only makes the situation more complicated. This is 4th generation, asymmetric warfare. You don't win a war like this fighting by WW2 tactics. I think in a year or two it will be obvious that this was a big mistake. We'll see though.
 
Chop said:
Here's an interesting passage:

Bible Gateway passage: Joel 1-3 - New International Version
The word of the Lord that came to Joel son of Pethuel.

“...
In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will put them on trial
for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel,

...

Shall I leave their innocent blood unavenged?
No, I will not.”
Click to expand...

What is your point Chop? Do you know what Joel is talking about? How many hours have you spent studying the Scripture? I have studied it fairly carefully. It isn't talking about 2023. Not in any way shape or form. The verse you quote is proof. It says "I will gather all nations and bring down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat." #1 all nations aren't attacking Jerusalem. Only Hamas. #2 they didn't attack the valley of Jehoshaphat which is east of Jerusalem between the city and the Mount of Olives. #3 if you study more areas of Scripture you will see that it is Jesus in person who shows up puts the nations on trial.

So why did you copy and paste Joel?
 
Not sure anyone is willing to follow this but Jesus commands it:

Matthew 5
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41 Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Click to expand...
 
Just from seeing God's actions in the Old Testament it seems like He would probably agree with what most of us are saying here over the liberal way (which you support, Mona) which causes a never-ending conflict.

Remember, I'm not the one who brought religion into this.
 
Garmel said:
If you want to quote the bible let's talk about what God commanded to do to the Canaanites.
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Who did God command to wipe out the Canaanites? When did He do it? Does it apply to anyone living today?

What about Matthew 5? Does it apply to anyone today?
 
Garmel said:
Just from seeing God's actions in the Old Testament it seems like He would probably agree with what most of us are saying here over the liberal way (which you support, Mona) which causes a never-ending conflict.

Remember, I'm not the one who brought religion into this.
Click to expand...

Chop brought it up. What part of the OT applies to you Garmel? All of it? Some of it? None of it? Do you know why God had such a harsh judgment against Canaan?
 
Then we agree.
Do you realistically think there is a way to destroy Hamas who has spent 20 years emersing itself into Gaza, building military encampments next to or underneath civilians, hiding behind or next to civilians without civilian casualties?
 
Many in Hamas/Gaza have turned against their psychotic leader SinWar.


Sinwar "has delusions of grandeur," Almansi said. "He feels like he is above everyone else." The people, he said, don't agree: "I have not seen anybody in the Gaza Strip who supports Sinwar," he told Shin Bet interrogators, "nobody likes Sinwar. There are people who, day and night, pray that God will free us from him."

Speaking of the group he served as a part of the Gazan government, Almansi said that "the achievements of Hamas are the killing and destruction of more than 60% of the buildings, infrastructure, streets, and public facilities," Almansi told interrogators. "This is a group of lunatics that Sinwar leads," he said. "They destroyed the Gaza Strip. They set it back 200 years."

Israel-Hamas War: What happened on day 65?
 
No one will destroy the Iranian puppets until Iran is destroyed. You might keep them in check for years, but in the end, this will be nothing but, wash, spin, dry, repeat.

Destroying Iran has to come from within Iran itself. Put a stranglehold on their oil infrastructure and starve them of funds.
 
American's (or is it just Republicans) like to call the United States a Christian nation. If that begs the question, "What would Jesus do?" then we have our answer on all of this; we would not facilitate war. "Blessed are the peacemakers," and all of that.

American's (or is it just Republicans) like to point out how Muslims use the Koran as justification for terrorism. And they like to mock the, "Religion of peace," label. So, if the Bible is now being used to justify war (is it?) then what does that make the Jews and/or the Christians?
 
350626372_2486451054863987_5057115263427490083_n-e1700482371452-640x400.jpg

Jimmy Pacheco, is a Filipino worker in Israel who was kidnapped by Hamas. He was recently released. What an ordeal! I bet he didn't sign up for that.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/taken-captive-jimmy-pacheco-filipino-caregiver-whose-abba-was-killed/
 
A French Hostage has been released by that terrorist group Hamas. She was at that music festival, where she was kidnapped. She got a tattoo after release.

The tattoo on Schem’s left forearm reads, “We will dance again” above “7.10.23” to mark the horrific attack, when hundreds of Israelis were killed and she and dozens of others abducted, sparking the start of the Israel-Hamas war.

Mia Schem (21):

images




Freed hostage Mia Schem gets defiant tattoo
 
Horn6721 said:
Then we agree.
Do you realistically think there is a way to destroy Hamas who has spent 20 years emersing itself into Gaza, building military encampments next to or underneath civilians, hiding behind or next to civilians without civilian casualties?
Click to expand...

I don't know. One Israeli official said years ago that Gaza is not a problem to solve but a condition to manage. It is a difficult situation will no easy answers.
 
ViperHorn said:
No one will destroy the Iranian puppets until Iran is destroyed. You might keep them in check for years, but in the end, this will be nothing but, wash, spin, dry, repeat.

Destroying Iran has to come from within Iran itself. Put a stranglehold on their oil infrastructure and starve them of funds.
Click to expand...

Iran doesn't control Hamas. They don't even fund the military aspects of the organization. They do give some money. But the real supporters of Hamas are Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
 
bystander said:
American's (or is it just Republicans) like to call the United States a Christian nation. If that begs the question, "What would Jesus do?" then we have our answer on all of this; we would not facilitate war. "Blessed are the peacemakers," and all of that.

American's (or is it just Republicans) like to point out how Muslims use the Koran as justification for terrorism. And they like to mock the, "Religion of peace," label. So, if the Bible is now being used to justify war (is it?) then what does that make the Jews and/or the Christians?
Click to expand...

That is where I am bystander. If nothing else America should be a voice for peace and restraint, not an instigator of violence. I get why Israel is flying off the handle. It is the job of bigger states to reassure and calm some of the emotion. The US has failed in that regard in my opinion.
 
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