I guess I don't understand the faux outrage on illegal children
- Thread starter Horn6721
- Start date
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I had no idea the girl in the picture was 2. The girl on the radio was 6.
Spent half a day on Ellis Island this week. Any interested person who wants to see what immigration to the US was really like in the early 1900's should read up on the subject. It was very difficult to get on the ship to the US and about 98% were then allowed into the US within 5 hours of arriving due to the serious vetting process before boarding. For the other 2% or roughly 100,000 it was pretty brutal. Families being separated were common and happened daily. No sympathy at all in order to protect the US from disease or possible criminals and that was from those trying to get here the right way. I'm sick of liberals trying to repaint the picture that it was open season and anyone could enter. Thats just not the case at all.
I've read similar accounts of what it was like. Vetting is vital. Period. It's not racist or anti-immigrant. Like you I'm sick and tired of the emotional extremism and insults we hear from the Left over it all.
Did Obama ever separate children from people who brought them here illegally?
Interesting that the facilities Obama built that were considered fine then are now being called inhumane.
Interesting that heads of companies profiting HUGELY from running those evil inhumane centers for children also served on the board of LaRaza
Interesting that most media ignore the " Angel " families, families who have been permanently separated from loved ones due to illegals killing the loved one.
Interesting that after the pics of the detained children caused so much faux outrage were proven to have been taken during the Obama era media never once pointed out Obama was the one who treated children like media accused Trump?
But no this is not political at all.
Interesting that the facilities Obama built that were considered fine then are now being called inhumane.
Interesting that heads of companies profiting HUGELY from running those evil inhumane centers for children also served on the board of LaRaza
Interesting that most media ignore the " Angel " families, families who have been permanently separated from loved ones due to illegals killing the loved one.
Interesting that after the pics of the detained children caused so much faux outrage were proven to have been taken during the Obama era media never once pointed out Obama was the one who treated children like media accused Trump?
But no this is not political at all.
There are good-hearted people about it all as I'm sure you would agree but I also agree with you that the Left is exploiting this for all it's worth and they are ignoring their culpability. That is what's sickening about it to me. The arrogance and sanctimony is off the charts.
Good point bystander.
There have been posters in this thread who say conservatives like to see children separated from the people who brought them here illegally.
bs
No one wants to see that but neither can we ignore people who break our law. I was encouraged to see a majority of people polled understand the blame goes to the people who broke the law.
Without enforcing our laws we are only encouraging people to continue to break them and flood our country.
If the media would actually factually report on what is going on they could do much to stem this. And by stemming the flood they could prevent danger and death to the very children they are now pretending to care about.
There have been posters in this thread who say conservatives like to see children separated from the people who brought them here illegally.
bs
No one wants to see that but neither can we ignore people who break our law. I was encouraged to see a majority of people polled understand the blame goes to the people who broke the law.
Without enforcing our laws we are only encouraging people to continue to break them and flood our country.
If the media would actually factually report on what is going on they could do much to stem this. And by stemming the flood they could prevent danger and death to the very children they are now pretending to care about.
I have a friend (always causes eye rolling) whose nephew is a Border Patrol agent in the Valley. He's a Latino. Born and bred down there. And this agent is SICK of "these people," meaning the illegal immigrants. That is the reality. He see's all the smuggling, all the games, all the use of children in ways that you and I would never do and all the political grand-standing. The media is saying Trump caused all of this. I say that Trump reacted to it and swung too far. He is now trying to correct it. How many politicians have you seen come out and reverse something on such a high profile basis? I'm not waxing poetic about Trump. He's not my hero. He's nothing to me except our President. But when I think about how one would manage a situation such as this IN COMPLIANCE WITH UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION and with the facts on the ground then it becomes a whole different ballgame. The vicious criticisms and people like Beto showing up for face time are unhelpful. Maybe they can take some credit for Trump's order. So be it. But it could have been done so much differently.
I want the children to be treated humanely but the entire journey to our border is already traumatic and confusing to the children. They are put into this situation and we are bound to protect them and ironically, separating them is supposed to ensure (or so I thought) that they are not in the hands of pedophiles or other adults who are not their parents. We have to look at each card (so to speak) one by one to see if they are clean.
It's like the Palestinians who used ambulances to sneak suicide bombers in to kill Jewish people. After a while you don't trust anyone. This Border Patrol agent doesn't trust them because they've been burned too many times. That's on the immigrants. They did it to themselves. If I was a Dreamer I'd be dismayed by all of this because the entire situation puts them further at risk. The border being a sieve is why (in my view) we can't cut a deal to care for the Dreamer's. There are too many powerful people on the Left who mock the idea of the wall which is in reality only a part of the discussion because those who mock it are the one's who have forced the idea of the wall in the first place.
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"There is no political solution..."
Sting
There will never be a real political solution because our politicians are corrupt and drunk with power. The are INCAPABLE of working together. And when we pretend a politician is evil and another one is not then we have fallen into the trap. Sure, there are some who are above it to some degree. But not close enough for my tastes.
Sting
There will never be a real political solution because our politicians are corrupt and drunk with power. The are INCAPABLE of working together. And when we pretend a politician is evil and another one is not then we have fallen into the trap. Sure, there are some who are above it to some degree. But not close enough for my tastes.
@Seattle Husker
thanks ... so she was "prephrasing" the San Diego newspaper, where she was "on site" for that show.
Whatever ... as was mentioned previously ... compared to what they endured to ARRIVE at the border, it IS summer camp in many of those facilities.
False whine.
thanks ... so she was "prephrasing" the San Diego newspaper, where she was "on site" for that show.
Whatever ... as was mentioned previously ... compared to what they endured to ARRIVE at the border, it IS summer camp in many of those facilities.
False whine.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Summer camps and boarding schools are optional and age dependent. When was the last time an infant still in diapers was FORCED to go to "summer camp". It wasn't an appropriate analogy, IMHO.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
Well, I've now learned that if I go on an airplane and a child starts crying, I can safely assume that the child is being mistreated, and should inform Child Services immediately.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
If the child is crying because they were kidnapped from their parents then please do. You'll get a heroes welcome I'm sure.
MrD
Since this report is from 5 days ago and I couldn't find any MSM coverage on it I think we know the answer.
I did though find this Huffpo report that says Obama separated thousands of kids from their parent.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/25/parents-deportation_n_5531552.html
and Jeh Johnson admitted yesterday on Chris Wallace show it happened under Obama too.
Apparently nearly all of the 2k illegally entered children who were separated from their illegally entered parents ( which btw as I understand it the separation is a result of a Ninth circuit court ruling, irony can be funny) Nearly all will be reunited with their parent by today.
What then will the lefties whine about?
One other thought. What if the illegally entered person is not actually a parent of the child?
Since this report is from 5 days ago and I couldn't find any MSM coverage on it I think we know the answer.
I did though find this Huffpo report that says Obama separated thousands of kids from their parent.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/25/parents-deportation_n_5531552.html
and Jeh Johnson admitted yesterday on Chris Wallace show it happened under Obama too.
Apparently nearly all of the 2k illegally entered children who were separated from their illegally entered parents ( which btw as I understand it the separation is a result of a Ninth circuit court ruling, irony can be funny) Nearly all will be reunited with their parent by today.
What then will the lefties whine about?
One other thought. What if the illegally entered person is not actually a parent of the child?
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Dems keep trying so hard to find a wedge issue to divide Americans, but they keep stepping on the rake. This entire latest version of Faux Outrage was 100% political and Americans in general saw right through it
Liberals news outlet CBS released a poll on the "separation of families" issue and the results show that most Americans want parents and children who enter America illegally kept together as a unit, but prefer that the entire family is either detained or deported after they are caught crossing the border into America.
Just 21% of Americans support "catch and release" even after this massive propaganda campaign against the Administration, the massive negative media coverage and all the partisan attacks
Liberals news outlet CBS released a poll on the "separation of families" issue and the results show that most Americans want parents and children who enter America illegally kept together as a unit, but prefer that the entire family is either detained or deported after they are caught crossing the border into America.
Just 21% of Americans support "catch and release" even after this massive propaganda campaign against the Administration, the massive negative media coverage and all the partisan attacks
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He can't really deny it. Both administrations have done it, because that's what you do with people who are arrested and charged with the crime. You don't jail their kids.
They will whine that the parents are still being arrested, and they'll whine that the children are being detained, even if they're with their parents. To them, the only right answer is to not enforce the law.
That's just another moral and ethical dilemma that has arisen from not enforcing the law for 30 years and setting up perverse incentives. We've effectively told people that the smartest thing they can do is come illegally and drag a child with them. At best, you encourage people to hire human smugglers and put their children around them. At worst, you encourage kidnapping.
If you find out that the child isn't actually the child of the adult in custody, then you're in a bigger dilemma. If the child was kidnapped, then it's easy. You send him back to his parents. But what if the parents sent the child with the person crossing the border? Do you send the child back to the parents who subjected him to such extreme danger and risk? That seems pretty inhumane, but if you don't, you incentivize sending more children that way. No good answers.
Which will change the behavior of nobody. They don't care if it's accurate, they just like saying it.
Thank you Mr D.
Sadly though Phil is right.
The last sentence of the article though sums it up nicely;
"So please get another historical event to exploit because not only are you belittling the horrors of one of the great crimes against humanity, you also sound ridiculous."
Sadly though Phil is right.
The last sentence of the article though sums it up nicely;
"So please get another historical event to exploit because not only are you belittling the horrors of one of the great crimes against humanity, you also sound ridiculous."
He is right. Some truly are truly just titanically stupid, but most people making the comparison aren't doing so in good faith. They know it's absurd, but they also know that it's an effective political and rhetorical weapon. Furthermore they know that the political media will take it seriously.
A millennial relative of mine who lives in Mass just posted a report on FB by Elizabeth Warren after her visit to some places in the valley.
It reads very horrifying.
Interesting though it also reads like many of the horror stories that came out about Obama treatment. No pics but there was mention of children being covered in silver foil blankets. and the horror, sometimes there were no afternoon snacks for the kids.
My relative's plea was to do everything one can, protest write and call etc since
this is not who we are as a country"
I could not help myself. I posted that I was stunned shocked and hurt to see Warren's report since it so mirrored all the horror that came out in 2014 and 2015, even to the silver foil blankets. I asked why we didn't work harder to make changes back then so it could not happen now. I did mention that hopefully we have gotten better so there won't be any deaths this time like there were back then.
I will likely be taken off their Christmas card list.
It reads very horrifying.
Interesting though it also reads like many of the horror stories that came out about Obama treatment. No pics but there was mention of children being covered in silver foil blankets. and the horror, sometimes there were no afternoon snacks for the kids.
My relative's plea was to do everything one can, protest write and call etc since
this is not who we are as a country"
I could not help myself. I posted that I was stunned shocked and hurt to see Warren's report since it so mirrored all the horror that came out in 2014 and 2015, even to the silver foil blankets. I asked why we didn't work harder to make changes back then so it could not happen now. I did mention that hopefully we have gotten better so there won't be any deaths this time like there were back then.
I will likely be taken off their Christmas card list.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
The difference between then and now is that then the kids were coming over by themselves in 2014. Now they're coming over with their parents. We're jailing people for a misdemeanor. I don't know the answers but I do know the difference in the two. I theorize that this is nothing more than political theater orchestrated by Stephen Miller to draw a line for the GOP candidates to separate the wheat from the chaff in the GOP primaries. Much like the referendum on marriage in 2004.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
They weren't detaining the ones that had kids. That changed when the zero tolerance thing started.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-border-unaccompanied-children/fy-2015
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
Parents, coyotes, kidnappers, same thing.
Again, what exactly do you want to do? You say "I don't know the answer, but..." What is the workable solution where people are coming into the country illegally and then claiming that they want asylum. I get you guys love catch and release, for obvious reasons. You get to feel good about doing "the right thing" and never have to worry about the fact that half of those who came over will remain "in the shadows," at which point you have another talking point about how cruel we are that those people who didn't show up for their hearing must now live in secrecy (when they're not testifying before Congress.)
Your options are to hold the parents and release the children to "someone" - who may or may not be an actual relative, and may or may not turn him over to child slavers. Or you can hold the kid with the parents, which we're told is inhumane. Or we can keep them in housing which by definition has to have some sort of security, since if the kids run off, it's on ICE and you'd be screaming about the inhumanity of it. Or we could just drop them all off on the Mexico side of the border and say "now please don't try to get in again, because we might not be able to catch up with you the next time!" I'm sure those that have been on a cross-country trek for weeks would just turn around and head home.
You said you were on board with putting them on a transport and flying the whole bunch back home, but we both know that even if the other governments would allow it, your party will never accept it.
So what's the answer? You (in general) can't call people nazis, impugn their motives, say that they don't care about kids, when basically they've picked the best option out of a list of bad options. If there's a better one, come up with it.
So your idea is that if someone can find a kid and bring him along, he gets a free pass into the country? Do you get how monumentally irresponsible that policy is?
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