I guess I don't understand the faux outrage on illegal children
- Thread starter Horn6721
- Start date
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
That's a pretty dark view and is likely accurate for a subset of these immigrants. Of course, the alternative view of the left that many are refugees escaping violence in their home country is also equally valid and reality.
As the resident "liberal" on this board I have no problem with catch and deport that administrations have done for years. Of course, to be fair ICE should spend more time cracking down on companies than they have in the past. Cut off the economic incentive for illegals to come across the border and you'll see demonstrable drop-off in traffic. The "children as pawns" and "violent criminals" is overplayed, IMHO. Like the barbaric tactic of separating children from parents, they are scare tactics to whip up the base.
For the "must follow the law" crowd, children that are separated from their parents are not eligible for the expedited hearing process to determine immigration status. For this reason, separating the kids slows down any ability to deport the family back to their home country.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
My issue is this: Right now, the left is complaining about separating kids. But under Obama, they were keeping the kids with the adults, and they were sued and forced to change the tactic.
Now, Trump is being attacked for separating the kids (in some cases, the critique of how it's happening is very valid.) And they've left him only two options: stop enforcing the law, or go through executive action (NOT legislation, as Schumer has made very clear) or write an executive order that is in violation of judicial rulings. So once he signs that order, not only can they sue him, but they have Donald Trump on record ordering the incarceration of innocent children at the border. So not only can they hammer him during midterms, but they can make the dishonest claim that our "only option" is to stop enforcing the ruling and release "parents" who bring a child across the border.
That is the absolute deliberate intent of everything that's been going on in Washington this past couple of weeks.
What does that have to do with following the law? If the law needs to be changed to reach the desired result, then let's do that.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
The difference between Obama's and Trump's implementation with regards to the Flores case I'd think is that Trump vastly increased the volume of judges at the border by 2X or 3X. Shouldn't that alone alleviate the original problem in the Flores case that children were being detained for too long?
This.
The truth is walmart, mcdonalds and others like the status quote. They want labor they can pay below minimum wage and deport if it becomes a problem. It is like slavery-lite. They do not want an open border system where these immigrants can gain legal residency/minimum wage, and they do not want the illegal immigration to stop either.
The great irony in all of this how both sides get played to keep the status quo.
The reason I think Trump is getting so much blowback is the influential powers that be that exploit cheap labor are looking to stir it up (an easy task with Trump) to keep that status quo.
Anyway, if you ever wonder why there never seems to be proper enforcement against the employers, the answer is those employers have powerful lobbyists and influence.
Ht77
You areabsolutely right. Go after the people who employ illegals.
HoweverWal-Mart McDonalds both use e verify for employment.
And they require any sub contractors to pledge they use legal to work employees too.
Heck Home Depot also uses e verify even as their parking lot is full every morning.
The biggest offenders are probably construction companies agriculture and the service segment.
That can be solved by a guest worker program and more companies actually using H 2 A which allows an unlimited number of work visas for agriculture. (You know people to pick lettuce and tomatoes, the favorite excuse of so many)
I see the outraged have moved on tocomplaining that Trumps EO gave no time limit on how long we will spend our taxpayer money taking care of people who should not be here.
You areabsolutely right. Go after the people who employ illegals.
HoweverWal-Mart McDonalds both use e verify for employment.
And they require any sub contractors to pledge they use legal to work employees too.
Heck Home Depot also uses e verify even as their parking lot is full every morning.
The biggest offenders are probably construction companies agriculture and the service segment.
That can be solved by a guest worker program and more companies actually using H 2 A which allows an unlimited number of work visas for agriculture. (You know people to pick lettuce and tomatoes, the favorite excuse of so many)
I see the outraged have moved on tocomplaining that Trumps EO gave no time limit on how long we will spend our taxpayer money taking care of people who should not be here.
So Walmart nd McDonalds pay below minimum wage? Interesting. Where did you get that info?
@iatrogenic, I think you have been fortunate enough in life to deal with businesses that do the right thing. Unfortunately, I have not been so lucky in the past. However, I now only work with businesses that do the right thing so I can see where you are coming from. If I had always been so lucky, I would be as skeptical as you.
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The real irony is the left engaging in their navel-gazing while asserting Trump should have just issued the EO when, at EVERY OTHER TURN, they whine and snivel about the abuse of the EO process (but only when DJT does it...when Obummer abused the process, it was perfectly fine).
The reality is that this is NOT an issue that should be addressed long-term by executive order and even SH should have sense enough to concede that point...
I want someone from the left to explain why THIS separation is NOT ok, but yet there is no clamor for the child to go with mommy or daddy to prison when a felony conviction is rendered that produces a term of incarceration. Separation is separation, and BOTH instances involve the supposed adult having made the conscious decision to violate the law...
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
As someone who specializes in HR systems, I'm highly suspect of any claim that Walmart pays below minimum wage. The volume of compliance reporting and potential for class action makes that unfeasible. That would be a Class Action attorney's or Government EEO regulator's dream if that were true.
I've seen several libs today post nearly the exact same thing as Husker did. The MSM must be pushing that narrative.
Dems and MSM should stop while they are behind.
They have spent days all outraged posting pics of the concentration camps Trump put these kids in.
Only to be caught out when the pics were proven to be from Obama years.
Today a faux outraged tried to say Trump is denying medical treatment.
Turns out the report was from 2015
The people are so desperate to discredit Trump they are not fact checking the stories they are putting out.
They have spent days all outraged posting pics of the concentration camps Trump put these kids in.
Only to be caught out when the pics were proven to be from Obama years.
Today a faux outraged tried to say Trump is denying medical treatment.
Turns out the report was from 2015
The people are so desperate to discredit Trump they are not fact checking the stories they are putting out.
And this is the true "other side" of this issue (though it's an other side that Trump's critics never seem to get into). The Left basically forces me to defend Trump on this issue because they're so over-the-top nutty and duplicitous about it. However, as I said before the ****-storm started, I wouldn't have handled things the way the Administration did. For starters, I'd lead with employer enforcement, not this stuff, and though I'd enforce the laws as written, I'd prioritize employer enforcement. They are the ones who are truly driving the problem. Furthermore, from a PR standpoint, it's much easier. Children are sympathetic figures and easy for the Left to exploit. Crooked employers are not. Honestly, I have no idea if Trump is making a lot of effort in dealing with employers. If he's not, he should be, and if he is, he should be much more aggressive on the PR angle of it.
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If there was a link on the internet to everything wrong I have personally seen adverse parties verbally admit to, I would do a lot more than post it on hornfans.
All I can say is, anyone who has spent time in the world of government or lobbying knows the world is a lot more crooked than meets the eye.
The big reason I lost interest in pursuing a government related career was I learned quickly people are not interested in the truth. They believe in corruption where there is none. They believe things are clean where they are crooked. So what is the point?
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That is because the law prohibits them from rejecting a candidate based on the belief that an acceptable form of I.D. is fraudulent. The employer could be sued for discrimination.
You and Sotomayor must be buddies:
“I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life.”
Well, you seem to think crooked business owners do not exist, so I do not know what to say. You should not have to be a lawyer to figure that out. I can only logically conclude you have never come across any crookedness to hold such beliefs.
Also, oh yes, some people successfully cook their company books and get away with it in this country quite often. Some even go on to be a leader in their church and elected mayor of their city.
Anyway, you have been given some insider knowledge on the immigration debate. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
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Is it in the scope of ICE's power to crack down on companies? Or is that power delegated to some different federal alphabet soup agency? Though I approve of such tactics, I have no idea what federal group should be popping people who employ illegals. And that, in and of itself, is one of the primary troubles with allowing our lovely federal overlords to grow so large.
4th_floor
Dude, where's my laptop?
I don't think it's Walmart mcdonalds and other big corps hiring illegals. Those corps are importing cheap goods produced by slave labor, but that's a different subject. The illegals are working for former illegals in the house construction industry. They are working in restaurants for former and current illegals. And of course agricultural labor is still almost solely illegals. There needs to be a crackdown on these small industries to penalize them for modern day slavery.
Both dislike Nikki Haley, so they have something in common. Lol.
That's a myth. What's illegal is not applying the same degree of scrutiny to everybody's documents or to ask for more documents from certain people. An employer doesn't have to accept an obviously fake document.
What IS a crock of **** is that if an applicant presents a fake document, the employer can get accused of "unfair documentary practices" if the employer doesn't give the applicant an opportunity to present other documents. That is absurd. If an applicant presents false documents, an employer should be allowed to call the cops, and the applicant should get charged with a felony.
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