General Presidential Campaign: Trump vs Hillary

texas_ex2000 said:
As distasteful as Trump is, I have never got the impression that he claims to be some moral standard bearer.
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He claims to be a born-again Christian. To me that is a moral standard bearer. Like I said before, I could let this slide if his attitude was different today than it was 11 years ago, but after the crap he has said over the course of his campaign, he's clearly the same guy.
 
The nasty events of the past few days have made me take a break from political boards...the Trump tape, Clinton leaks, 3 police officers murdered while trying to do their job. Of course, the press ignored 2 of these 3, (guess which ones) and that only makes me angrier.

Nope, the press is viewing the Trump tape like it's the Zapruder film, and that ticks me off.
I'm a woman, and I was a young UT grad working in a male dominated world way back when. It was in a time when the words "sexual harassment" had not been coined, and, when we were harassed, we feared losing our jobs more than potential assault. We learned how to extricate ourselves from sticky situations, and I was lucky enough to never go past the harassment stage.

I think Trump (and I think my feeling about his "character" are very clear) made very crude and lewd remarks. However, his age and the circumstance take me back to my early work experiences. There is a certain type of man who feels the need to brag and exaggerate his "conquests", or, feel he has the right, and almost an obligation to "give it a try" when dealing with a woman. The common denominator is not being a politician, rather it is being a man who is in a position of power.

I won't bore you with all of my experiences. I will share 3 that are fairly typical.
The first was when I worked as a sales rep at a major pharmaceutical company. I was in the first wave of women hired. Every time we had a National Meeting, I noticed myself, and a former Miss Texas were placed on either side of our CEO during dinner. He was a short man, and had perfected the side hug, with which he would wrap his hand all the way around our back with one hand landing on our breast, which would receive a good squeeze. Ah, good times.
One night, after the party, I was up in my hotel room hanging out when I heard a knock on my door. I opened the door, and the CEO was standing there with a bottle of wine, wearing nothing but his loosely tied bathrobe. When I say nothing, I mean nothing. He asked if he could come in, and end the night "on a happy note". At 22 years old, this was mortifying (he was in his 60s) and my first thought was, "how do I get out of this without being fired?" I managed to do so, but worried for a few months. I often wonder how many women invited him in.

The same company, a few years later, and a name that may be familiar to some of you. Mitch Daniels worked for us, and while I can't remember his job title, he was someone very important. One night, at another National meeting party, he asked me to play naked volleyball with him. Other people were around, and I chalked it up to his being drunk. The next day, I saw him again, in the mid-morning, and he told me he had waited at the volleyball courts for me, and maybe we could get together that night for some naked volleyball. He was separated from his wife, and for some reason I was attracted to him, although he wasn't handsome. His intelligence was attractive, but, I am a prude, and not the type to play naked volleyball.

The last example is from the same job, and I was driving an internationally known speaker from lecture to lecture for the day. He was a big deal in the world of neuroscience, and throughout the day we had some great conversations, some including stories about his wife and kids. That night, as I dropped him off at his hotel, he invited me in for a nightcap. He had "that look" in his face, and I declined. The man would not leave my car for almost 45 minutes, begging me to come up. He went from charming to claiming I "must be gay" since I didn't want to have sex with him. He told me that most of "the girls" did have sex with him and he viewed it as a perk of his job.

I wish these were isolated incidents, but I believe you get the picture. I became more and more adept at heading these off at the pass, and becoming more outspoken as to how I should be treated as I grew up and matured.

All of these men were power players, and I do think that Trump is correct in his thought that many women succumb to the chance to sleep with, be groped by, whatever other sexual acts, with a power player. They could be politicians, sports figures, actors, company men--you get the picture.

I also must point out that I am not some sexual magnet! On the contrary, I am the boring wholesome "girl next door" looking woman. Over my life, I am usually described as a "Meg Ryan" look a like, or (if you are really old) a "young Doris Day", so please don't think I am trying to brag. I think these type of men morph into men who are used to women giving in, and having some type of sexual reputation to uphold. You see and hear how obsessed Trump is with his own sexuality--talking about his "size", and constantly speaking of women as if they are there for his pleasure.

I do think it is part of an act, if you notice, he didn't even try to kiss the actress until Billy Bush asked him to, and then it was on her cheek. I am in no way defending Trump. I think he is a nasty, brash, man and as has been mentioned, one of the biggest egomaniacs I have ever run across, thank goodness. But, I do think that the media is in such a feeding frenzy and are overlooking things that matter much, much more.
To me, it still boils down to our country's safety, jobs, and perhaps mending the racial divide that has flared up. I don't think either of these candidates have a snowballs chance in hell of accomplishing any of these things...maybe Trump would keep the flood of immigrants from the Eastern part of the world to a minimum, and repeal ACA.

I know this is a long and rambling post, and I apologize for that. I read and hear about all the women who are clutching their pearls as if Trump is the first man to act like a jack *** around women, and the hypocrisy is troublesome.
I won't even talk about the Clintons, but you can go way back politically to Roosevelt, LBJ, Kennedy, and many, many Presidents who had numerous affairs and foul mouths. I can't pick any recent Rs, mainly because I can't think of a woman who would have slept with that smooth talker Nixon, and I think the Bush's and Reagan were faithful.
I guess to sum up this long winded post is to say that while Trump's comments are gross and disturbing, I think, based on my experience and those of my friends, fairly common among certain men of a certain age with power and money. If I were to weigh out what I am concerned about as a woman, and a citizen, it is much more in the realm of things that impact our country, not what some jack *** said, off the cuff 10 years ago to impress some dumb young reporter.

The sad thing is, the debate will spend a ton of time on this, and it will be ugly, and we will leave the debate with no more answers than when we began to watch. We live in a world where serious words are tossed around too easily.
Calling someone a Nazi, a misogynist, a racist, at the drop of a hat only serves to diminish what is true racism, or sexual harassment. The Nazi comments don't even deserve a comment.
I grow weary of friends who are so quick to call people names and make assumptions, and fail to see the irony that they are doing exactly what they claim the other side is doing. It bothers me that they would defend to the death men who force women to wear burkahs, stone them to death for loving the wrong man, carry out honor killings, deny them education, etc. etc. It boggles my mind that they can't see that.
OK, one more thing.(sorry) It does my heart good to hear that you fine men agree that Trump is disgusting and don't treat or think about women in this manner. I think some of it is your age, and I thank you all for respecting women and treating them as you would want your loved ones to be treated.
I do think the world is changing in that way, but, Trump is like 100 years old, and I think that generation didn't/doesn't have much of a clue.

Bottom line, we have two of the worst candidates in the history of our country at a one of the most critical times in our country. I must admit, it freaks me out a good deal. Is it too late for John Kasich to swoop in and save the day?
A girl can dream, can't she?

And Mr. Deez, you may quote me any time you wish! I am flattered, to say the least.
 
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Mr. Deez said:
I'm sure that sometimes it's not, but a gentleman would never presume such a thing. And again, what guy wants to do this? Obviously, I understand why a guy wants to have sex and everything that implies, but randomly grabbing people by the crotch doesn't seem like an act of desire or even lust as much as it seems like an act of domination. And that's messed up.



Some do. Most don't. Even most rich dudes don't walk around like they're Rick James.
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That's not what he said. He said girls are so compliant around rich and famous people that you can grab whatever.
 
It will be interesting to see how Hillary handles the comments made by Trump. It's a minefield for her given that she is married to the most famous sexual predator on the planet. She would be wise to let the media continue to do her bidding instead of reminding voters about the Clinton's shady history.
 
Thanks for the post Hdx.
I remember when in the sales force for a large, well known company attending those National Mtgs and the things that went on are indeed as you describe. As I was never in a position of power I never was personally involved not being so 'entitled' but heard many stories.
What I do remember we're the constant barrage of 'sexual harrassment' lectures and videos we were subjected to once the issue came to light due to publicity. My mind was opened when, after numerous meetings and videos I finally suggested the clips and examples were absurd and no one would be that blatant and stupid, I was told that they were depictions of actual events. I was astounded. Trust me, it is disgusting and it is absurd what the perpetrators think they can get away with because of a position of power.
 
Trump is a disgusting pig as Holland pointed out men of his generation are. Bill Cosby is another as is Clinton
Unlike with either Bill there are not flocks of women telling the media they were unwilling.
So far no has been able to explain why Trump's crude remarks in a private conversation are more important to our country than the disregard lies and manipulation of State to reward CF donors.
 
There is also a word that is bothering me, and y'all have all touched on it. (no pun intended)
Again, I feel almost like I need to have a disclaimer before I post anything that remotely resembles defense of Trump! How sad is that.
But, people have turned this remark into saying he "assaults" women. In my mind there is a big difference between harassment and assault. Blustering to a dude bro that you can "grab" women in certain areas is far different than an actual physical assault, and I don't consider anything I have experienced as "assaults". Harassment, yes, absolutely.

Unless the Dems are holding on to some women who are willing to step forward and say the Trump did indeed grab them in that area, and they didn't want him to do that, I have to put it in a different category than what Cosby did, for example.

I am still most angry and upset that we are left with the 2 choices before us. Both have the dirtiest hands of most any candidate I can ever recall.
But the continued ability to bury other stories that are so much more important and pertinent to this election truly stuns me. Not much media bias does, but based on my "N" of around 200 friends on Fbook, and others who are super busy and just have time to scan a few minutes of the news/internet, no one is really aware of the gravity of HRC's leaks and "dreams" for what she wants our country to become.
 
I think that is fair question, as long as the second question is something about HRC's Wall Street speeches that reveal that she advocates a "public policy and a private policy". Also wide open trade borders that would change the world.

People want to see how Trump responds to the issue, and there is a chance he could regain some sort of dignity/understanding (?) if he answers correctly.
I actually think HRC has a tougher time answering to the whole public v. private statements, along with some of her other leaked text from speeches. I guess it is tougher, because it is actually something that makes a difference and is a real issue.

I have to say, I find Anderson Cooper to be one of the fairer guys on TV news, and I hope that he controls the debate and doesn't allow it to devolve in to a 2 hour discussion on who treats women the worst. One thing that must happen if Trump stands any chance is when he brings up Bill Clinton, he focuses on how Hillary destroyed the multiple women who accused Bill of wrongdoing, and how she claimed it was a right wing conspiracy. Accusing Bill is not resonating one iota. Bill isn't running for President, and his past is not on trial here. Bringing up Bill seems to be the defense of the day, and that isn't flying.

I also feel that Trump needs to point out that many women, including HRC, are calling any woman who still support him all sorts of terrible names. She is adding to her "basket of deplorables" type of thinking. Every time she or her campaign remark on the stupidity of women who would still vote for Trump she is insulting a lot of people. Remember how much hay the Dems made out of Romney's "binders of women"? It is impossible for Trump to be humble, but bringing up his granddaughters and how ashamed he is of his words 10 years ago might help.

As far as HRC, I can't really think of an honest way she could squirm out of her admission that she has two sides of thought--one for us dummies, and one for her elite inner circle. I don't think she has the ability to wordsmith around that.
However, I don't know how hard she will be pushed on these comments. It's the million dollar question, and I wonder if either moderator will have the guts to push her after Matt Lauer was crucified for asking her a few tough questions.
If anyone can do it, I feel like Anderson Cooper may.

Trump should make a statement, then pivot to the real issues that he scores on any time HRC brings up his statement. Don't engage, just look in the camera and say, "I have apologized, it was incredibly wrong and I am ashamed. However, this town hall is to help the people of the USA to understand what I plan to do to change things. This claim is the best HRC has...what does that tell you? And go on to hammer his key favorables.

I say all of this, not wanting Trump to win. But the thought of HRC, her shimmy, her gloating over winning the first debate, her history of non-service gives me all the chills. Maybe it is just the competitive Hillary hater in me, but I want to see her demoralized after the election.

Still waiting for Kashich to save the day. Come on, John. Please??
 
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The official DNC line is they do not know if all the emails that have been releases are "real" .
Cagy way of ignoring what HRC and her gang did
 
Trump won debate easy. You will never see the liberal media admit. Instead they are talking about GOP defections.
 
I didn't think it was a clear win for Trump. It was more like a "at least we stopped talking about the Access Hollywood video" sort of sigh of relief.
 
Trump won that debate and it was not even close. However, the media will pile drive him on the video and more will come out. The nightly news on NBC failed to even mention wikileaks release of HRC's Wall Street comments. Instead, they ran a feature story on women who have been sexually assaulted.

If there is low voter turnout, Trump will take a Brexit type win. HRC's inability to effectively use the video in the debate shows just how weak a candidate she is. She should be up more than 75 points at this point.
 
Mr D
Is something Trump said over a decade ago in what he thought was a private conversation really that important compared to how Hillary has been proven to treat our country while a public servant?
 
Mr. Deez said:
First, he's revelling in it. Second, do you honestly think he has never done some of this stuff that he laughs about doing?
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Unless women come out and be credible then why would anybody believe he actually did anything?

Look, we have got so side tracked from the real issues this country is face due to this current admin and including Hillary. How in the world can something that was said 11 years ago affect us as individuals and the policies we need in place. Why are some of you putting all your efforts toward one candidate on something said years ago, but ignore the recent email dump of 2,000 emails that directly affect us with claims she want completely open borders, and that she is telling us one thing but in private she has another agenda? It's really a head scratcher from what seems to be bright people that can't think any further than 29 days from now. Because if Hillary is elected then what? I'm scared for the safety of my kids, future grandkids and generations to come because we elected a President that wants 10,000s + refugees not knowing what they will do once here. What's sad is she isn't even thinking about our safety. She is only thinking about adding those refugee's as future voters one day. That is where were at as a nation and it's very sad.
 
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