General Presidential Campaign: Trump vs Hillary

[Joe Fan]

Agreed. I'm just pointing out the attempt to change the conversation. You've pointed out this strategy of Trump's many times......

I dont think he cares about this Russian nonsense. It's nothing. It is just Democrats scrambling to blame the results of this election on anything but their own policies and behavior. He knows this. Everyone knows this, all except a handful of you.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Serious issue? It's serious alright and a certain female ought to pay her debt to society behind bars.

Yes, Putin made Hillary have a private server. Putin made Hillary delete thousands and thousands of emails. Putin made Hillary bash all of her electronics to prevent seeing what's on them.

None of that has anything to do with Russian interference in US elections. Notice, I haven't claimed that Trump won because of Russian help.

 

[Seattle Husker]

I dont think he cares about this Russian nonsense. It's nothing. It is just Democrats scrambling to blame the results of this election on anything but their own policies and behavior. He knows this. Everyone knows this, all except a handful of you.

His transition team cared enough to put out a formal statement. In it they pointed out the CIA's intelligence failure (Iraq - WMD) and erroneously claimed some sort of historical electoral college landslide.

 

[Joe Fan]

His transition team cared enough to put out a formal statement. In it they pointed out the CIA's intelligence failure (Iraq - WMD) and erroneously claimed some sort of historical electoral college landslide.

We have discussed many times in the past how Trump sees value in encouraging you people to trip all over yourselves.

Meanwhile, he is continuing with his busy schedule. Today, he has meetings we know of with Peter Thiel, Ben Carson, Alan West and Rep. Ryan Zinke (formerly of SEAL Team VI).

 

[I35]

None of that has anything to do with Russian interference in US elections. Notice, I haven't claimed that Trump won because of Russian help.

It has everything to do with the Russian interference. Russian doesn't hack if Hillary or her circle doesn't have a private server. What's sad is Russia exposed Hillary for who she is while our left media tried to hide it.

 

[Joe Fan]

It has everything to do with the Russian interference. Russian doesn't hack if Hillary or her circle doesn't have a private sever. What's sad is Russia exposed Hillary for who she is while our left media tried to hide it.

There is zero evidence of an outside "hack."
Remember both Snowden and Manning were inside jobs.
With regard to Podesta and the DNC, there is just as much evidence to point to Dem staffer Seth Rich as the Russians. And Rich was murdered.

 

[I35]

There is zero evidence that is was an outside "hack."
Remember both Snowden and Manning were inside jobs.
With regard to Podesta and the DNC, there is just as much evidence to point to Dem staffer Seth Rich as the Russians. And Rich was murdered

I guess I should have phrased it to SH that "let's pretend he's right about Russian interference"

 

[Joe Fan]

CNN has breaking news

 

[Joe Fan]

Why are Dems not clamoring for an investigation into the unsolved murder of Seth Rich?

 

[Seattle Husker]

It has everything to do with the Russian interference. Russian doesn't hack if Hillary or her circle doesn't have a private server. What's sad is Russia exposed Hillary for who she is while our left media tried to hide it.

Uh...none of the Wikileaks came from HRC's private server. It came from hacking the DNC and John Podesta's email. Are you saying that Russia may have hacked the DNC and John Podesta because HRC had a private email server?

 

[Seattle Husker]

There is zero evidence of an outside "hack."
Remember both Snowden and Manning were inside jobs.
With regard to Podesta and the DNC, there is just as much evidence to point to Dem staffer Seth Rich as the Russians. And Rich was murdered.

At this point we don't know what evidence the CIA or the FBI has. We only know that both have agreed on Russian involvement. The former has reportedly taken the additional step of claiming motive of Russia preferring Trump.

Just as much evidence regarding Rich? Yes, I'm sure there is in the alt-right internet. I've little doubt the FBI would love to review the evidence if it does in fact exist. If you really care about Rich here is some additional info.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Why are Dems not clamoring for an investigation into the unsolved murder of Seth Rich?

Smokescreen?

 

[I35]

Uh...none of the Wikileaks came from HRC's private server. It came from hacking the DNC and John Podesta's email. Are you saying that Russia may have hacked the DNC and John Podesta because HRC had a private email server?

I know, Hillary deleted thousands of emails. Then she had all of her electronics bashed four days after they were subpoenaed.

But I did say her inter-circle above being hacked.

 

[Seattle Husker]

I know, Hillary deleted thousands of emails. Then she had all of her electronics bashed four days after they were subpoenaed.

But I did say her inter-circle above being hacked.

OK. You may be conflating issues here. It's possible that Russia hacked HRC's private server and used that information to get into JP and DNC email but I'm not sure anyone has made that leap yet.

Right now the intelligence agencies are publicly stating that Russia was involved in the DNC/JP email hacks.

 

[Joe Fan]

Smokescreen?

How is not clamoring for an investigation into the murder of Dem staffer Seth Rich a smokescreen?

 

[Joe Fan]

Here was the NYT in an Oct 28, 2016 editorial --

"“Top Republicans must reject the ridiculous notion that a national election can be ‘rigged,’ ”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/18/o...-about-vote-rigging.html?mod=djemBestOfTheWeb

----------------------------
And here is the NYT editorial board now --

“[President-elect] Trump should be leading the call for a thorough investigation, since it would be the only way to remove this darkening cloud from his presidency. Failing to resolve the questions about Russia would feed suspicion among millions of Americans that a dominant theme of his candidacy turned out to be true: The election was indeed rigged.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/11/o...n-americas-election.html?mod=djemBestOfTheWeb

-------------------------

Here was CNN.com back on Oct 19 on the topic of the Russians --

“Election officials and cyber experts say it’s virtually impossible for Moscow or some other outside group to influence the election outcome.”
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/politics/election-day-russia-hacking-explained/?mod=djemBestOfTheWeb

 

[Seattle Husker]

How is not clamoring for an investigation into the murder of Dem staffer Seth Rich a smokescreen?

What does "not clamoring for an investigation" mean? Furthermore, what does that have to do with the intelligence agency investigation? I'm aware of the alt-right conspiracy theory of Seth Rich being offed claiming that he was the leaker but at this point it's 100% conspiracy theory. I hope his murderer is found. Clearly he was well respected by his former co-workder at the DNC.

Now, let's move back to the actual evidence rather than conspiracy theory. Unless you are claiming that the FBI, CIA and other intelligence agencies are making crap up then you are creating a conspiracy laden smokescreen to avoid talking about the real issue, foreign nation involvement to potentially say a US election.

 

[Joe Fan]

At this point we don't know what evidence the CIA or the FBI has. ......

They concede they have no facts. No evidence. Only an "unnamed source."
This sentence is buried deep in the WAPO article

 

[Joe Fan]

What does "not clamoring for an investigation" mean? ....

We have reached that point again where you are making such little sense, it is impossible to formulate a reply

 

[Seattle Husker]

So, the "no smoking gun defense" is next in line after the conspiracy-laden Seth Rich murder? Based on reports, there are at least 2 individuals inside the Russian government that gave the email to Wikileaks. If you're waiting for audio/video of Putin telling these employees to do something or an email directing them then virtually all of our intelligence is non-actionable with regards to Russia.

 

[Seattle Husker]

We have reached that point again where you are making such little sense, it is impossible to formulate a reply

No, you've created a non-sequitur conflating Seth Rich's murder with Russian hacking based on a completely unproven conspiracy theory. It's a false equivalent fallacy. Furthermore, you've assumed that nobody in the DNC wants the murder solved which so far is unproven.

 

[Horn6721]

SH
Please give a credible source that reports a named source at either the CIA or FBI or any other intelligence agency saying there is actual evidence anyone from the Putin gov't or even a Hillary hating Russian living in Siberia is responsible for giving wiki the leaked info.
Wapo etc keep saying the CIA etc are saying it was Russia but no one from any agency has actually said it have they?

 

[Seattle Husker]

SH
Please give a credible source that reports a named source at either the CIA or FBI or any other intelligence agency saying there is actual evidence anyone from the Putin gov't or even a Hillary hating Russian living in Siberia is responsible for giving wiki the leaked info.
Wapo etc keep saying the CIA etc are saying it was Russia but no one from any agency has actually said it have they?

All we have to go on is what has been reported and the intelligence agencies (17 of them) claiming Russian involvement in the hacking. Do you think they didn't have actual evidence of Russian involvement when they said as much in their previous proclamation? Maybe that's where we differ. You seem to be taking the Trump position and denigrating our intelligence agencies.

 

[Horn6721]

SH
What source are you quoting that says 17 Agencies? what agencies and who from these agencies?
All I have read is a media saying 17 agencies with no back up.
All countries have tried to hack each other.
Surely you know that

BTW how exactly do You think Russia influenced the Election?

 

[Joe Fan]

life comes at you fast

 

[Horn6721]

Jf

I wonder how SH feels being reminded of that and all the many other Dems who scoffed at the idea our election could be rigged.

 

[Seattle Husker]

life comes at you fast

That's a good strawman. Looks like I missed one of the smokescreen strategies. Or is this #3?

Look, nobody of consequence is saying Trump won because of Russian help. There were obviously many other factors. Does that mean we shouldn't investigate what could be equated to an act of war by Russia? To use a Trump word, that's ridiculous.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Jf

I wonder how SH feels being reminded of that and all the many other Dems who scoffed at the idea our election could be rigged.

Careful. You're beginning to resemble a parrot only now you don't have to travel far for the talking points. JF serves them up here for the cheerleaders. Ironically, the conservative position you used to bring to the board have been replaced with Trump talking points that in most cases aren't actually conservative. I guess you simply cheer for the R?

 

[Horn6721]

SH
Act of war?
You do remember a sitting member of the US SENATE asked Russia to interfere in our Potus election Right?
What would you call That?
So far unless as I asked you can provide proof all we have is someone saying it happened
I asked you exactly what kind if influence there was
Further why would not Russia want an idiot like Hilary who could not be bothered to make sure she knew what the reset button actually said,
HEY maybe Trump sabotaged the reset button

 

[Seattle Husker]

SH
Act of war?
You do remember a sitting member of the US SENATE asked Russia to interfere in our Potus election Right?
What would you call That?
So far unless as I asked you can provide proof all we have is someone saying it happened
I asked you exactly what kind if influence there was

Careful now, remember when Trump said the exact same thing as Ted Kennedy? I'll accept that Trump was practicing in rhetoric in that he didn't actually want Russia to hack HRC.

Proof? I understand that we may live in a post-truth world in which facts want to be ignored in favor of emotional appeals but I'll present the original statement from the intelligence agencies in which they did say Russia was attempting to interfere in the US election. If these 17 intelligence agencies neglected to call Horn6721 to share the evidence that led to this statement (and was shared with Congress prior to release) then my hope is that you'll forgive them.