General Presidential Campaign: Trump vs Hillary

[texas_ex2000]

Heh...Trump on his campaign promise (rhetoric?)...

Husker, you're not this ignorant. Mocking universal and simple to understand concepts are often what people on a losing side do.

So, please, continue doing what you are doing. Continue to say that you have faith that Comey made a perfectly legally honest opinion in Hillary's e-mails. Continue to play dumb and not know the difference between a promise and rhetoric. This election showed that self-satisfied mindset and instinct killed Hillary (not literally Husker, but figuratively - just in case you claim to not know the difference).

People don't buy it. In fact it's the opposite approach of what liberals should be doing after making a self-assessment post-election...trying to empathize with the other side. Instead, you're mocking, trolling, sidetracking. You're editorializing and lecturing. Any fool can go to someplace else for that. I come to the West Mall because you might find smart people who debate on substance. Discuss substance, policies, and facts Husker and use facts and logic to support your opinions.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Husker, you're not this ignorant. Mocking universal and simple to understand concepts are often what people on a losing side do.

So, please, continue doing what you are doing. Continue to say that you have faith that Comey made a perfectly legally honest opinion in Hillary's e-mails. Continue to play dumb and not know the difference between a promise and rhetoric. This election showed that self-satisfied mindset and instinct killed Hillary (not literally Husker, but figuratively - just in case you claim to not know the difference).

People don't buy it. In fact it's the opposite approach of what liberals should be doing after making a self-assessment post-election...trying to empathize with the other side. Instead, you're mocking, trolling, sidetracking. You're editorializing and lecturing. Any fool can go to someplace else for that. I come to the West Mall because you might find smart people who debate on substance. Discuss substance, policies, and facts Husker and use facts and logic to support your opinions.

Was I trolling? A little.

I think the line between campaign promise and rhetoric was merely non-existant with Trump. For example, "build a wall" for all of the nearly 2,000 miles is not only impracticable but also abhorrently expensive yet would you consider that a promise or rhetoric? After all, it was the leadoff for nearly every campaign stop? You and I both know that Trump actually promised very little during his campaign as the depth of his policy proposals were extremely shallow.

As for facts, what we've learned in this campaign cycle is that they do not matter. Rather, it's what we want them to be that matters. In turn, Trump is a racist and HRC is corrupt. The facts or even what we know may not support those statements but when prompted with facts they are simply discarded like trash because they don't conform to whatever biased source someone was told to believe. Furthermore, slandering your opponent is actually more critical than attacking their argument. Better yet if you have a meme to throw out that's even better. This is politics on the national stage and local stage on this board.

So, am I frustrated when even someone as educated as you can unequivocally claim the fictitious high road while slandering opposing viewpoints when we endured the same security clearance training? Hell yes. I'll happily take the slander from our resident alt-right propagandist and his chearleaders knowing that the facts often don't match the message they are portending. From you, I expected a more civil conversation.

Now, do I trust Comey? Hell yes, again. He has demonstrated that he is one of the most non-political agency heads in our lifetime. The assumption that he was part of some vast conspiracy borders on lunacy, IMHO. Did he think Hillary violated the letter of the law but they'd be unable to convict? Maybe. As a former US Attorney clearly he needs to assess whether there is enough evidence to gain a conviction when making that recommendation. Heck, any public prosecutors office does the same thing every day.

I'd have no problem if a special prosecutor had been appointed but that is separate from any discussion around James Comey's integrity.

 

[Joe Fan]

Who, Trump?

the comedian/actor from that SNL skit
dont know his name

liberals attacked him over the skit

 

[Joe Fan]

This stuff is still funny
Many of these same folks denounced Bernie Sanders folks for complaining that the election was "rigged."
While Bernie supporters had legitimate grievances based on the structural "rigging" of the system, these goofballs only have "Russian hacking" conspiracies

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Mr. Deez]

More phony hate crimes. Link.

 

[Joe Fan]

Crikey mate!

"AUSTRALIA has finally ceased pouring millions of dollars into accounts linked to Hillary Clinton’s charities.

Which begs the question: Why were we donating to them in the first place?

The federal government confirmed to news.com.au it has not renewed any of its partnerships with the scandal-plagued Clinton Foundation, effectively ending 10 years of taxpayer-funded contributions worth more than $88 million.

The Clinton Foundation has a rocky past. It was described as “a slush fund”, is still at the centre of an FBI investigation and was revealed to have spent more than $50 million on travel....."

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...s/news-story/219577919ed8dfbd79cf808321234eba

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Joe Fan]

So I thought this was interesting, even fascinating -- the view of Trump's win seen among cyberliterate Chinese (not Chinese-Americans). This is a perspective you wont find in English in many places, certainly not from the US media.

http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2016/11/trump-triumph-viewed-from-china.html

Trump Triumph Viewed From China
... a widely-read Weibo post (again originated from Zhihu) summarizes what Trump’s win has “taught China”, generating tens of thousands of retweets.

“1. We should retain our college entrance exam system that ensures a pathway for poor kids to move up the social ladder. The American election shows how a lack of upward mobility tears apart the society;

2. China should protect its manufacturing sector and prevent it from being outsourced. America’s deindustrialization only benefits capitalists, not workers;

3. China should forcefully resist immigrants and reject political correctness. Illegal immigrants usually compete with lower working class people for jobs, not professional middle class. When the daily safety of working class residents is threatened, they should be able to protect themselves without fear of being politically incorrect.

4. China should be adamantly against excessive care for the LGBT community. Their values and choice should be tolerated, not advocated, especially not at the expense of suppressed mainstream values.”

 

[Joe Fan]

More:

... It is hard to pinpoint exactly when a much more favorable view about Trump starts to bloom in the Chinese cyberspace. Through that lens, he is viewed as a truth-talker, a pragmatist, a fixer, and most importantly, a strong counter-voice against what is believed decadent Western liberal values.

Before we can properly explore the “Chinese support for Trump”, it is important to separate it from Chinese Americans’ rooting for the Republican candidate, which is based on more substantive issues for people who actually live in the US. A considerable amount of what’s written on Chinese-language sites about the election is actually by Chinese Americans, especially first generation Chinese immigrants. Their opposition to Hillary, and Democrats in general, often centers around issues such as the Affirmative Action which is believed to hurt hard-working Chinese American kids. ...

... The unveiled, intense disdain for American (and European) liberals demonstrated by a substantial segment of the Chinese social media is the key to understanding Trump’s popularity here, and something that ties the “intellectual” side of Trump’s Chinese support with his apparent lack of any intellectual appeal.

 

[Joe Fan]

more --

On zhihu.com, the Chinese equivalence of Quora, where enthusiasm about Trump is particularly strong, multiple top posts under the “Donald J. Trump” tag center around the theme of liberal hypocrisy and weakness. For a site that pride itself with informed discussions and a respect for expertise, the overall hostility towards Western liberal ideas deserves a moment of reflection. One of the posts that garners more than 18,000 likes is a broad stroke thesis about the decline of Western civilization under the pressure of Muslim immigration. “There are towns in Britain that are completely under the control of Muslim extremists, who are openly using white girls as sex slaves under the eyes of gutless British policemen***. Trump was right when he said there were no-go zones for French policemen in their own country. Western countries are in such a degree of self-deception that politicians like Obama and Merkel can be praised for their appeasement with Islamists while political correctness deters people from talking about the existential threat to Western civilization.”

It is one thing to be critical of the liberal ideas of multiculturalism and freedom of religion, it is quite another when a Chinese shows that level of concern for the demise of the West. ... Deep down they still see the West as something to aspire to, and they feel frustrated when “weak” liberal leaders squander their full hand of good cards. “Angry about them not putting up a fight” (chinese characters), as one Chinese saying goes. ...

 

[Joe Fan]

another tolerant lefty -- talking about a 10y old

 

[Horn6721]

Well at least the tolerant left would never make disparaging remarks about a mentally disabled child of someone in the opposing party



Oh wait

 

[Joe Fan]

professional journalist

 

[mchammer]

I was so accurate it's scary. To be honest, I thought Trump would win NH NV to clinch. Didn't work there, but doubly so in MI WI PA.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[mchammer]

This is good:

http://freebeacon.com/blog/clinton-campaign-blames-james-comey-for-losing/

 

[Joe Fan]

This goes back to a dispute during the campaign
Trump said Muslims in the US celebrated 9/11
He was attacked over it

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/20...sli.html?ath=9c46bfc08d76232bb5a5e00eeaf0bfa2

"..... But in a new examination by NJ Advance Media, a police officer who worked on 9/11 and residents on the outskirts of Journal Square say they witnessed small pockets of people celebrating before the groups dispersed or were broken up by authorities.

*****
"When I saw they were happy, I was pissed," said Ron Knight, 56, a Tonnele Avenue resident who said he heard cries of "Allahu Akbar" as he shouldered his way through a crowd of 15 to 20 people on John F. Kennedy Boulevard that morning.
******
Among the news organization's findings:
* A retired police captain, Peter Gallagher, said he cleared a rooftop celebration of 20 to 30 people at 6 Tonnele Ave., a four-story apartment building with an unobstructed view of Lower Manhattan, in the hours after the second tower fell.

Some men were dancing, some held kids on their shoulders," said Gallagher, then a sergeant. "The women were shouting in Arabic and keening in the high-pitched wail of Arabic fashion. They were told to go back to their apartments since a crowd of non-Muslims was gathering on the sidewalk below and we feared for their safety."

* Knight was one of two Tonnele Avenue residents who said they witnessed a crowd celebrating on John F. Kennedy Boulevard not far from Masjid Al-Salam, the mosque where Omar Abdel-Rahman, known as the "blind sheikh," preached before the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
*****
"Some of them had their hands in the air," Ferran said. "They were happy."

* Numerous people called police to report an exultant crowd on the roof of 2801 John F. Kennedy Blvd., a distinctive, five-story apartment building at the intersection of Sip Avenue, said retired officer Arthur Teeter, who worked in the radio room at police headquarters on Sept. 11.
*****
"There were enough calls that it was disturbing," he said. "That's the only word I can use."

* Three additional officers who remain on the Jersey City force said they witnessed small groups of Muslim celebrants on Sept. 11, but they would not speak for attribution, citing a department policy that prohibits media interviews.

The officers, including a high-ranking official, said their reluctance to speak publicly also stemmed from concern they would run afoul of Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop, who has repeatedly said celebrations did not take place.

"I saw it with my own eyes," the ranking officer said. "In the end, police officers are professionals, so we just observed that stuff and sucked it up."

...."

 

[Mr. Deez]

This goes back to a dispute during the campaign
Trump said Muslims in the US celebrated 9/11
He was attacked over it

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/20...sli.html?ath=9c46bfc08d76232bb5a5e00eeaf0bfa2

"..... But in a new examination by NJ Advance Media, a police officer who worked on 9/11 and residents on the outskirts of Journal Square say they witnessed small pockets of people celebrating before the groups dispersed or were broken up by authorities.

*****
"When I saw they were happy, I was pissed," said Ron Knight, 56, a Tonnele Avenue resident who said he heard cries of "Allahu Akbar" as he shouldered his way through a crowd of 15 to 20 people on John F. Kennedy Boulevard that morning.
******
Among the news organization's findings:
* A retired police captain, Peter Gallagher, said he cleared a rooftop celebration of 20 to 30 people at 6 Tonnele Ave., a four-story apartment building with an unobstructed view of Lower Manhattan, in the hours after the second tower fell.

Some men were dancing, some held kids on their shoulders," said Gallagher, then a sergeant. "The women were shouting in Arabic and keening in the high-pitched wail of Arabic fashion. They were told to go back to their apartments since a crowd of non-Muslims was gathering on the sidewalk below and we feared for their safety."

* Knight was one of two Tonnele Avenue residents who said they witnessed a crowd celebrating on John F. Kennedy Boulevard not far from Masjid Al-Salam, the mosque where Omar Abdel-Rahman, known as the "blind sheikh," preached before the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
*****
"Some of them had their hands in the air," Ferran said. "They were happy."

* Numerous people called police to report an exultant crowd on the roof of 2801 John F. Kennedy Blvd., a distinctive, five-story apartment building at the intersection of Sip Avenue, said retired officer Arthur Teeter, who worked in the radio room at police headquarters on Sept. 11.
*****
"There were enough calls that it was disturbing," he said. "That's the only word I can use."

* Three additional officers who remain on the Jersey City force said they witnessed small groups of Muslim celebrants on Sept. 11, but they would not speak for attribution, citing a department policy that prohibits media interviews.

The officers, including a high-ranking official, said their reluctance to speak publicly also stemmed from concern they would run afoul of Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop, who has repeatedly said celebrations did not take place.

"I saw it with my own eyes," the ranking officer said. "In the end, police officers are professionals, so we just observed that stuff and sucked it up."

...."

Trump said all kinds of goofy things during the campaign, and he grossly overstated how many were celebrating. However, I always thought the smug "fact checkers" were full of crap on it. There's no way to fact check something like this, and anyone who thinks he can doesn't know what a fact is.

 

[Joe Fan]

.... There's no way to fact check something like this, and anyone who thinks he can doesn't know what a fact is.

We have to first agree that events that may or may not occur in the future are not facts today

 

[NJlonghorn]

This goes back to a dispute during the campaign
Trump said Muslims in the US celebrated 9/11
He was attacked over it

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/20...sli.html?ath=9c46bfc08d76232bb5a5e00eeaf0bfa2

"..... But in a new examination by NJ Advance Media, a police officer who worked on 9/11 and residents on the outskirts of Journal Square say they witnessed small pockets of people celebrating before the groups dispersed or were broken up by authorities.

*****
"When I saw they were happy, I was pissed," said Ron Knight, 56, a Tonnele Avenue resident who said he heard cries of "Allahu Akbar" as he shouldered his way through a crowd of 15 to 20 people on John F. Kennedy Boulevard that morning.
******
Among the news organization's findings:
* A retired police captain, Peter Gallagher, said he cleared a rooftop celebration of 20 to 30 people at 6 Tonnele Ave., a four-story apartment building with an unobstructed view of Lower Manhattan, in the hours after the second tower fell.

Some men were dancing, some held kids on their shoulders," said Gallagher, then a sergeant. "The women were shouting in Arabic and keening in the high-pitched wail of Arabic fashion. They were told to go back to their apartments since a crowd of non-Muslims was gathering on the sidewalk below and we feared for their safety."

* Knight was one of two Tonnele Avenue residents who said they witnessed a crowd celebrating on John F. Kennedy Boulevard not far from Masjid Al-Salam, the mosque where Omar Abdel-Rahman, known as the "blind sheikh," preached before the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
*****
"Some of them had their hands in the air," Ferran said. "They were happy."

* Numerous people called police to report an exultant crowd on the roof of 2801 John F. Kennedy Blvd., a distinctive, five-story apartment building at the intersection of Sip Avenue, said retired officer Arthur Teeter, who worked in the radio room at police headquarters on Sept. 11.
*****
"There were enough calls that it was disturbing," he said. "That's the only word I can use."

* Three additional officers who remain on the Jersey City force said they witnessed small groups of Muslim celebrants on Sept. 11, but they would not speak for attribution, citing a department policy that prohibits media interviews.

The officers, including a high-ranking official, said their reluctance to speak publicly also stemmed from concern they would run afoul of Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop, who has repeatedly said celebrations did not take place.

"I saw it with my own eyes," the ranking officer said. "In the end, police officers are professionals, so we just observed that stuff and sucked it up."

...."

This is nothing new. Trump claimed that "thousands and thousands" of Muslims celebrated openly in Jersey City, and that he saw footage of it on TV. The liberal media pretty much reported that no celebrations happened ever, anywhere. Citing this evidence of a single celebration, which your source says involved 20-30 people, Breitbart proclaimed Trump 100% vindicated.

As usual, the liars on the left and the liars on the right are both full of crap. There clearly was at least one small celebration in Jersey City, involving 20-30 people who knew the attacks were coming. This was no secret in 2001 or 2015, and the fact checkers all either ignored it or glossed over it. There may have been other small celebrations as well. The liberal media in 2015/16 whitewashed this.

But if there really were "thousands and thousands" of Muslims who celebrated openly in a dense urban area, there would be thousands of non-Muslims who saw and heard it. Plus, someone surely would have recorded it. And if it was on TV in NYC, there would be hundreds of thousands who saw it, and someone would have found footage by now. Yet nobody has come forward with reliable evidence of anything more than a small celebration on the roof of a single building in Jersey City. Other than Trump's statement, there is no evidence (reliable or not) of large-scale celebrations.

 

[Joe Fan]

With 35% of the Wisconsin recount done, Trump has extended his lead by 39 votes

lol

 

[Seattle Husker]

Trump said all kinds of goofy things during the campaign, and he grossly overstated how many were celebrating. However, I always thought the smug "fact checkers" were full of crap on it. There's no way to fact check something like this, and anyone who thinks he can doesn't know what a fact is.

You just normalized Trump's statement. Here is the initial quote:

"I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down," the Republican presidential candidate said at a Nov. 21 rally in Birmingham, Ala. "And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering."

He later went on to claim he saw this on TV which was an outright lie as no evidence of that has been proven.

Fast forward to a police officer saying 20-30 were celebrating. The difference between 0 (has any media said no muslims celebrated?), 20-30, and "thousands and thousands" is akin to comparing the a runoff ditch next to your home after a light rain to the snake river.

I get that Trumpster's live in a post-truth world where what they feel trumps facts but I refuse to let reality slide that far.

 

[NJlonghorn]

You just normalized Trump's statement. Here is the initial quote:



He later went on to claim he saw this on TV which was an outright lie as no evidence of that has been proven.

Fast forward to a police officer saying 20-30 were celebrating. The difference between 0 (has any media said no muslims celebrated?), 20-30, and "thousands and thousands" is akin to comparing the a runoff ditch next to your home after a light rain to the snake river.

I get the Trumpster's live in a post-truth world where what they feel trumps facts but I refuse to let reality slide that far.

There you go again, taking Trump hyper literally. You clearly don't understand how businessmen talk.

 

[mchammer]

There you go again, taking Trump hyper literally. You clearly don't understand how businessmen talk.

No, this is not the same as being hyper literal such as whether Obama and Hillary founded ISIS as an example.

By the way, I recall seeing a report after the 9/11 attack about muslims celebrating either in the newspaper or on TV. Trump ain't entirely wrong. The media lied more about this than Trump.

 

[Seattle Husker]

By the way, I recall seeing a report after the 9/11 attack about muslims celebrating either in the newspaper or on TV. Trump ain't entirely wrong. The media lied more about this than Trump.

You did? Where?

I'll help, here is a paragraph from the Washington Post:

In Jersey City, within hours of two jetliners' plowing into the World Trade Center, law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river.

The NYC police commissioner also said there were "pockets" celebrating but not more the 20 or so individuals.

Again, zero video or photographic evidence has been put forward. Yes, there were certainly some individuals that are happy. You don't think certain elements of the religious right are happy when an abortion clinic burns down? Still, it's a grand-****!ng-canyon sized leap to what Trump claimed.

 

[mchammer]

You did? Where?

I'll help, here is a paragraph from the Washington Post:


The NYC police commissioner also said there were "pockets" celebrating but not more the 20 or so individuals.

Again, zero video or photographic evidence has been put forward. Yes, there were certainly some individuals that are happy. You don't think certain elements of the religious right are happy when an abortion clinic burns down? Still, it's a grand-****!ng-canyon sized leap to what Trump claimed.

LOL, you telling me what I do or don't remember? Also, read what I wrote. I said I recall seeing a report, not the actual incident. The media has been saying nothing of the kind took place. In my universe, Trump was more correct than the media.

 

[Seattle Husker]

LOL, you telling me what I do or don't remember? Also, read what I wrote. I said I recall seeing a report, not the actual incident. The media has been saying nothing of the kind took place. In my universe, Trump was more correct than the media.

No, the media has been saying there is no official documentation to back up the claim that "thousands and thousands" were celebrating in the streets or that Trump saw it on TV. Please show me where any media said "nobody celebrated anywhere". If Trump had said "there were a few pockets of individuals that celebrated" I'm sure the media would have fact checked that. He didn't say that though, quite the contrary.

 

[mchammer]

No, the media has been saying there is no official documentation to back up the claim that "thousands and thousands" were celebrating in the streets or that Trump saw it on TV. Please show me where any media said "nobody celebrated anywhere". If Trump had said "there were a few pockets of individuals that celebrated" I'm sure the media would have fact checked that. He didn't say that though, quite the contrary.

WaPo indicates here that the celebrations were nothing but unsubstantiated and mean rumors meant to hurt Muslims.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/

 

[NJlonghorn]

LOL, you telling me what I do or don't remember? Also, read what I wrote. I said I recall seeing a report, not the actual incident. The media has been saying nothing of the kind took place. In my universe, Trump was more correct than the media.

WaPo indicates here that the celebrations were nothing but unsubstantiated and mean rumors meant to hurt Muslims.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/

I suppose it is subjective to say what is "more correct" when they are both wrong. The fact remains that Trump was not off by a little bit. It seems very clear that he didn't actually see anything even remotely approaching what he claims he saw.