Forensic Audit in Maricopa County, AZ

Monahorns said:
No I'm not. You ignored what I said and added in your strawman. "Just obeying orders" is the same logic regardless of the level of the bad deed. I am objectively correct on this.



You basically say there are only certain ways of opposing wrong doing. It isn't unconstitutional to refuse to teach CRT. It isn't legal in criminal sense. It is insubordination of a thing that shouldn't be taught as you say. The Right has been losing in the US for 110 years because your attitude. It will end in lots of destruction.



Oh yeah? How about you explain why it's not. Explain how "just obeying orders" didn't lead to the US military teaching racist essentialism and introducing the destructive idea.



Sure. Why not? People have to make their own decisions on these things. They have to weigh the cost to themselves and how important the issue is to them. But I would never say a person should do something they think is seriously immoral just because someone else told them to. Maybe those in charge should do a better job of aligning their orders to military strategy and just war types of ideas. Your just arguing for mindless slaughter.



Hm. If soldiers refuse to fight the war they can't win. But that isn't the issue I am discussing. The reality is that 99% of the time this isn't an issue. People who go into the military aren't disposed against fighting a war. They see the point. The commanders put together a good strategy and tactic. They get soldier buy in, and they go do the thing.

I get it. You can't have soldiers carrying out only half of their orders. Organizationally it doesn't work. That is true for any organization. That is why leaders have to have moral clarity. Get buy in. Receive feedback and even pushback in a constructive way. Change your plans. Allow tactical flexibility. Most people will be willing to compromise their morals a bit in a war time situation. Most people are willing to do something they were told to do by someone in authority even if wouldn't do it normally. I see CRT as serious enough to say no to. You don't. That is the only difference here. In your weighing it isn't worth disobedience. In mine it is.

But yes if soldiers refused to perform the fire bombings of Dresden, the world is a better place and Nazis still lose. I personally talked to a Vietnamese veteran who was in the South Vietnamese army. He was told to rape women because that is how war is waged. You just terrorized the populace. Of course he said he would never rape a women now. But to them that was war. If he hadn't raped those women how could he ever have fought the Viet Cong? If he had refused, the South Vietnamese would still have lost the war. He would still be a refugee in the US. But he wouldn't have been a rapist at least.

If we every become a Communist country, and we are in the middle of a type of color revolution. People will wonder how it ever could have happened to the US. The answer will be that people did as they were told by Communists. They didn't think the issue was so bad. They didn't want to stick their neck out and get criticized. But they will be responsible for the fall of the country into Communism. In the US it won't look like Soviet Communism. It will be a complicated mix of socialist capitalist corporations working with government agencies to steer us towards government/corporate control of everything. If only someone would have took a stand and said to themselves, "this is wrong. I am not going to do it."
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I can't work with you on this or seriously discuss it with you. If the military actually worked the way you think it should work (where troops obey orders and disobey orders based on their personal opinions of morality) we would have lost every war in the history of the country. We wouldn't have been around to fight the Nazis or anyone else. Might be a good thing. Maybe we'd be part of Mexico and therefore too broke to care about woke causes.
 
Deez, please humor me, I have one last question for you. I am trying to understand your view point as best as I can.

In your view, is there never justification for disobeying orders? In other words, is there no case where the correct option is to refuse to comply with an order?
 
Monahorns said:
Deez, please humor me, I have one last question for you. I am trying to understand your view point as best as I can.

In your view, is there never justification for disobeying orders? In other words, is there no case where the correct option is to refuse to comply with an order?
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Yes, there are cases in which the correct option is to refuse to comply with an order. For example, if someone knows or reasonably should know that an order is illegal, he should refuse. An order to incorporate "equity principles" or CRT into military training isn't illegal. It's stupid and bad policy, but it's not illegal. The blame should fall on today issuing the orders, not the ones carrying it out. And I'm willing to bet those are civilians.
 
OUBubba said:
There are many who would disagree with that assertion. The right looks to be poised to have control of everything for a decade or so going forward.
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Those people would be ignorant of 20th century history, or they are being dishonest. There isn't a Western institution that Leftists don't control at this point. It more or less started in the Progressive era.
 
Which is why I keep trying to tell all you yahoos the damn election was not won fair and square. Then I send all this proof, best I have right now, and...........Crickets. Nobody reads it. I guess when it hits CNN and Fox then everyone will buy in! CRT is just a tiny symptom of an overall much larger problem!
 
Bottom line, Congress is controlled, completely controlled, by big corporate America. Just felt I had to throw that in.
 
Perhaps, but Congress R and D, is controlled by Corp Am, lock, stock, and barrel. I say jump - you say how high.
 
Fraud in Georgia. This was found looking at the 145,000 mail in ballots in Georgia. Keep in mind that they only got to look at low resolution ballot images. They're going to court in a week or so to get higher resolution scans done, which will probably show more fraud. Don't worry, libs. I'm sure your MSM will provide you the disinformation you need to "debunk" this.

They're also being kind in calling the duplicate ballots "errors". That can't be done by accident.



voter-ga-favorito.jpg
 
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Garmel said:
Fraud in Georgia. This was found looking at the 145,000 mail in ballots in Georgia. Keep in mind that they only got to look at low resolution ballot images. They're going to court in a week or so to get higher resolution scans done, which will probably show more fraud. Don't worry, libs. I'm sure your MSM will provide you the disinformation you need to "debunk" this.

They're also being kind in calling the duplicate ballots "errors". That can't be done by accident.



voter-ga-favorito.jpg
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Sounds like they have data to take to court. Looking forward to seeing their analysis withstand the scrutiny of a court case. Garland Favorito who is VoterGa has been an "election activist" for 15 years. He clearly aligns with many posters here.

Q. What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned in your years as an elections integrity activist?

A. What I’ve learned is that the corruption is deeper than I had ever imagined.

Q. Tell me a little bit more about that. Are you saying that the corruption is bipartisan? Or is it one party over another? Or is it just built into the system?

A. That’s a great point. You have the Democrats in Fulton County and the Republicans in the Secretary of State’s office and you can’t trust either one of them. Yeah, it’s definitely bipartisan corruption at that.
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Keep in mind, per the VoterGA website, they site MyPillow guys court case as evidence of what's wrong with GA Elections.

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humahuma said:
Deflect, nothing to see here, move along. So GA needs to go to court to expand the audit?
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They went to court to get access to the 14k ballots they supposedly reviewed. If there is a claim of fraud that is disputed by the GA SOS office then the court would be the remedy to either say the claims are credible or not. I know it's very common to leap when data arises that confirms our personal beliefs but in this case this is simply a claim. It's a claim with decent (video) evidence but it's still just a claim.

Remember the banter (and subsequent legal cases that went nowhere) stemming from the video from Fulton County of a worker pulling out a box and processing ballots? At the time it was an accusation that they were bogus ballots being processed after monitors were directed to leave the room. The reality ended up not matching the narrative. That's why the courts are so important in these cases. It's their job to represent justice, not partisan narratives. Both sides get their chance to state their case.
 
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humahuma said:
Deflect, nothing to see here, move along. So GA needs to go to court to expand the audit?
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They are trying to get permission from the courts to get higher resolution images of the ballots in 600 dpi. Who knows where it goes from there.
 
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Seattle Husker said:
Karen Fann needs to be concerned about the felony she committed by attempting to interfere in an election.

"STOP THE COUNTING." - Karen Fann to a Maricopa County Supervisor in a recorded message during the election tabulation.

Her credibility may be in question in a court of law.
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And she couldn't say what the disparity was. We could literally be talking about one ballot.
 
@Mr. Deez and @Monahorns

To me, disobeying orders or teaching CRT is the same thing; you are introducing anarchy by allowing everyone to indulge their own feelings on the matter. It gives power to individuals without context. It becomes politicized very quickly. And then the truth is lost.

To me, CRT is not about racial history in America. It is open season for Liberal initiatives.

As for the military, yes, we have done many things we shouldn't have done, including Dresden. I just don't see how you can have so many soldiers with the right to not fight at a whim. We know many would quit on the spot. China and Russia would not allow this. The game is so much more different than theory as is discussed here on this forum.

What are we to do?

Don't start a war I guess.
 
Garmel said:
Yeah, I'm sure it's one ballot.
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I'm not suggesting that it is. My point is that she wouldn't give a figure (even a ballpark figure) - sounds like she's trying to gin up a story more than actually present a serious fact. Considering that we're looking at a 10,000+ vote margin, a figure or a range of figures is pretty important.
 
Mr. Deez said:
I'm not suggesting that it is. My point is that she wouldn't give a figure (even a ballpark figure) - sounds like she's trying to gin up a story more than actually present a serious fact. Considering that we're looking at a 10,000+ vote margin, a figure or a range of figures is pretty important.
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She's just reporting what she was told by the audit team. Perhaps she could have waited until she had more info. Supposedly we'll know the exact amount by Friday.
 
Garmel said:
She's just reporting what she was told by the audit team. Perhaps she could have waited until she had more info. Supposedly we'll know the exact amount by Friday.
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Politicians and lawyers always speak literally and that is why, IMO, Mr. Deez said it could be one ballot. She was being vague and that seems to be her MO. The story matters to her; the details are tools; the truth has already been decided.
 
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