Dumb Political Correctness

This is policing in the UK in 2017

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Seattle Husker said:
I don't understand the "it can't be worse than what we have". Yes, it can and often is.
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There was a saying in our family for that idea. Whenever something bad may have happened, someone might say, it could be worse. When by words or questioning look the other asked how, the phrase was, "it could be that plus a poke in the eye with a sharp stick."
 
4th_floor said:
Government imposed equality = No Child Left Behind or More $ for schools. These solutions haven't worked and made education worse. Try school choice. It can't be worse that what we have.



Can't you see the disaster that this would be? Untrained kids with poor parents from bad areas staffing medical clinics? Untrained kids repairing houses? Would they do mold or asbestos removal? Do you think any of those kids might be tempted to steal from the medical clinics or homes under repair? And what are these kids from the inner city baby-sitting high schools supposed to study in community college? They will definitely need remedial reading and math. A lot of the fish at UT from public schools need remedial courses. And those kids are the cream of the crop for the most part. Offering "free" college to those kids is pretty much worthless in my opinion.

Plus, think about the poor illegals you would be putting out of work in the construction industry. Even the illegals who work for $5 per day can't compete with free. Mexico might go bankrupt.
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First of all, you put a whole lot in there that I didn't say. I never said "untrained". There's a lot you can teach someone to do in 30 days if the scope of their duties is limited. I wouldn't teach them to be general contractors. I would teach them to paint or put on shingles or lay tile. I wouldn't teach all of it. The medical industry is the same way. You break the task down small enough and just about anything is reducible to being done by a person with a 5th grade education. There's a big difference between going to UT and being thrown into Freshmen Chem with 300 other students and going to ComCollege with a class size of 25-30. And if they need remedial training...that's exactly the "catch up" aspect I'm promoting. You don't stick into the deep end just because their skin color adds to the mosaic. You allow them a semester at CC for the remedial training, or even two if needed.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
First of all, you put a whole lot in there that I didn't say. I never said "untrained". There's a lot you can teach someone to do in 30 days if the scope of their duties is limited. I wouldn't teach them to be general contractors. I would teach them to paint or put on shingles or lay tile. I wouldn't teach all of it. The medical industry is the same way. You break the task down small enough and just about anything is reducible to being done by a person with a 5th grade education. There's a big difference between going to UT and being thrown into Freshmen Chem with 300 other students and going to ComCollege with a class size of 25-30. And if they need remedial training...that's exactly the "catch up" aspect I'm promoting. You don't stick into the deep end just because their skin color adds to the mosaic. You allow them a semester at CC for the remedial training, or even two if needed.
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I sure agree with the approach of agreeing that there is a problem, agreeing that past attempts have not been useful, but being willing to try something else. The "give a man a fish" approach has not worked, and its cousin, "give a man a job" has not, either--although that's a little better. We need to improve the actual productivity and decision-making of people who are not very productive and have not made good decisions. Not an easy undertaking with all the cultural and emotional defensiveness involved.
 
BrntOrngStmpeDe said:
I don't know exactly how we get there but just because we haven't developed the right response or preventative measures doesn't mean it isn't worth talking about. I personally believe that our challenges are more about economic groupings than race groupings, it just happens that two races are predominantly in those economic groupings. I did lump women into the blurb but honestly I think they are less of an issue primarily because women come from well off homes at the same rate as men. I think most of male/female difference is due to job type and longevity so I don't think the wage gap is as severe as it is made out to be.

The 4 cards analogy to me is minority cultural phenomenon but it certainly has its roots in previous policies. You seem to be of the opinion that all the blame lies at the feet of the individual and their parents and immediate support structure. While I would agree that a large portion of the blame can be placed squarely on the parents for failing to provide for their children, I would also suggest that a kid that turns 18 and has lived his whole life in poverty, with a poor education opportunity and no one to pave the way for his future has been dealt 4 cards. I believe we can(and should) develop a better catch up system than race based employment affirmative action. I don't see how we can continue to look at kids that have crappy upbringing and opportunity and hold them responsible for the failings of their parents. We can't right blank checks and send them all to UT but we can certainly give them more opportunity than we do now.

It's not an easy fix because usually that 18 year old has also adopted the parents belief systems and self limitations so getting an 18 year old to make a good choice is hard. It's hard sometimes even when they have all the cards to do well like mine do.

I would suggest that the best thing is to do more to develop equality in education and a different/supplemental ramp for economically underprivileged.

In my ideal world I would develop a RedCross/National Guard entity that was specifically focused on providing basic level medical functions that would do mobile medical clinics and labor for housing development/repai in poor communities. In exchange for service in an organization like this, the kids would get a 1 for 1 living stipend to be used later for school. You put 6 months into the service project, you get 6 months of school and living stipend at a community college.

4 benefits out of this
1. Hopefully better health as a nation because we catch things earlier and better housing
2. the 18 years would get a sense of the other that is possible for them
3. The 18 year old would get a start on the education trail
4. The 18 year might learn a skill that even if they don't go to a college later, they could at least have a job history that could give them a jumping off point

I do think its very hard to devise a system that does the "catch up" work for a 35 year old. It's not that they aren't worthy, or that they didn't suffer from the same "4 card" dilemma, its just a lot tougher to resolve the issue because they are already locked in to their path for the most part. They likely have kids and bills and aren't able to uproot things to take advantage of an opportunity. An 18 year old however, doesn't typically have all these constraints. I think unlimited student loans is a terrible idea, and I think putting an under-qualified minority into a competitive college ahead of white person is a bad idea because they are likely to be a drop out and receive little benefit however, having a system that allows that 18 year to go someplace to "catch up" before they go to a competitive college would be a good idea.

I think 18 year olds are low hanging fruit in this situation. You give them something productive to do, and a "catch up" ramp for a trade school or college and we'll be better off as a country. I would so much rather pay them $10/hr to work at mobile clinics than pay a jail $85,000 year to house them later on.
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It seems that you are separating culture from parents and support structure, but it is difficult to tell. Maybe you mean prior policies have an effect as do parents and support structure. Regardless, I do believe parents and support structure (i.e. culture) as well as liberal policies have each had a negative effect.

Instead of trying to reinvent the world for these folks with honest, well meaning programs that would help them catch up, it may be wise to look at groups that were downtrodden in the past and examine what changes they made to catch up, not what changes were made by society. In other words, instead of changing the world to help overcome the inherent problems, lets focus on changing the source of the problem instead of treating the symptoms. What is the source of the problem that has the greatest negative effect on the black community? Single mothers having babies. That has not always been the case in the black community. The trend started with liberal "giveaway" programs in the sixties, and has continually deteriorated. Therefore, begin to phase out those welfare programs. If we make it easier to follow the path of poverty, people will take that path.

The idea of trading work for benefits is okay for those currently caught in the cycle of poverty, but we have to cut off the source of the problem or the cycle will continue.
 
Joe Fan said:
This stuff stops being just "dumb political correctness" when it is codified
This is pure Orwellian
"Perceived by the victim, OR ANY OTHER PERSON"
It is a blanket license to oppress anyone for any reason, or no reason at all
It's the UK, but just of matter of time before it jumps the pond

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And they are even bragging about it
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For you lawyers out there, are there laws that are specifically 'hate crimes' or is it the offense, i.e. assault, that is labeled as a hate crime?
 
militaryhorn said:
For you lawyers out there, are there laws that are specifically 'hate crimes' or is it the offense, i.e. assault, that is labeled as a hate crime?
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Here's what happens in the US. The person commits a routine offense - murder, theft, assault, rape, etc. In addition to the normal findings necessary to support a conviction for that offense, the court also makes a finding that the person committed the offense because of his bias or prejudice against a group identified by race, color, disability, religion, national origin or ancestry, age, gender, or sexual preference. If that finding is made, it increases the punishment to the next highest level of offense.

However, in other countries, things may be handled entirely differently. They may have actual laws against saying or doing certain things to certain types of people, etc.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Here's what happens in the US. The person commits a routine offense - murder, theft, assault, rape, etc. In addition to the normal findings necessary to support a conviction for that offense, the court also makes a finding that the person committed the offense because of his bias or prejudice against a group identified by race, color, disability, religion, national origin or ancestry, age, gender, or sexual preference. If that finding is made, it increases the punishment to the next highest level of offense.

However, in other countries, things may be handled entirely differently. They may have actual laws against saying or doing certain things to certain types of people, etc.
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So, what you are saying is that I can hate my ex-wife as long as I don't commit a crime against her and not worry about going to jail?
 
militaryhorn said:
So, what you are saying is that I can hate my ex-wife as long as I don't commit a crime against her and not worry about going to jail?
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You can hate her and even commit a crime against her, and though you might go to jail, you won't go to jail for a hate crime, unless you commit the crime against her because she's a woman, like SH said.
 
It's hard to be surprised, because let's be honest - that sign is the natural conclusion of everything the left has pushed on gender issues. This is why I have no patience with moderates who talk about these things as if they're no big deal, and that none of those "crazy paranoid scenarios" will ever play out. Because they do. Over and over. Pedophilia will be on that list in some form (maybe not by that name - for all I know it's already covered because who knows what some of that means) before long. Why shouldn't it be? People who only want to have sex with the new sex robots will be on there. At some point people will stop being satisfied with wanting to marry their pets and start wanting to have sex with them, and that will be on there, too. Because all it takes is a handful of people who're willing to put themselves out there, and they can find a soft-hearted liberal who doesn't want them to feel left out.
 
A primary school in Kittery, Maine read aloud a story about a transgender child to preschoolers without getting the parents permission.

"The book details the struggles of a child “with a boy’s body and a girl’s brain,” who eventually finds a doctor that tells the family the boy is a transgender."

Little kids went home that night and asked their befuddled parents if they were transgender.
On top of that, the school was pretty uppity about it, feeling, as the Left often does, that they'd done nothing wrong.

http://eagnews.org/school-under-fire-for-kindergarten-lesson-on-transgenderism/

Schooling used to be about teaching reading, writing, and arithmetic. Now it's about bending young people's minds over to the Left's beliefs.
 
VYFan said:
I sure agree with the approach of agreeing that there is a problem, agreeing that past attempts have not been useful, but being willing to try something else. The "give a man a fish" approach has not worked, and its cousin, "give a man a job" has not, either--although that's a little better. We need to improve the actual productivity and decision-making of people who are not very productive and have not made good decisions. Not an easy undertaking with all the cultural and emotional defensiveness involved.
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I've seen remarkable changes in 18 yr olds that join Army. It's a unique situation and not everyone will join the Army but I have seen young people from crappy homes/families right the ship and become excellent soldiers and people. There have also been many that join up, do their 3 years and go right back to being slugs/thugs. While I don't think this type of project/opportunity should ever be deemed a "right", I do think that, like health insurance and education, a country as wealthy as ours with as much intellectual talent and economic resources can eventually work out a good solution that strikes the right balance. But solutions to difficult problems don't usually just come to us in our sleep. If we aren't acknowledging them, talking about them and attempting solutions...the problem won't ever go away.
Not a hand out, but a hand up.
Note that my suggestion puts the work before the payout, much like the GI Bill. You put in the time, then you get the reward. As compared to education loans now that dole out the money before the candidate has demonstrated the slightest ability to stay the course and do the work.

I've always been a fan of a lifetime cap on "freebies" whether its disability, welfare, food stamps, etc. I think it is easy to fall into the perpetual victim and welfare mindset and we must guard against that with any program, but a few months of job training doesn't equal perpetual welfare.
 
It just hit me; the problem is not that white people don't believe the police have shot innocent black people, profile them or are more trigger-happy... it's that they are being asked to protest in a certain way (dishonor the anthem or the flag) and if you don't then it means you don't support them. That is almost a form of political extortion. DO THIS OR ELSE.

Come up with a more palatable way to express support and maybe we can talk. I have nothing against the flag or the anthem. They do not represent unjust laws or behavior to me. Being an American (which the flag represents) means you should not be subjected to unjust laws or behavior. Attack the behavior and not something that is a sidebar because it's obvious to me the conversation about the police and their relationship with the black community is not being discussed... it's only now about the form of protest.

Now the protest has become about Kaepernick not being hired to play football. It's a major segue. Just like destroying property. It's not working. Those forms of protests are missing the mark.
 
Barkley is being called a "white supremacist"
His crime?
He said black people should stop killing each other

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bystander said:
It just hit me; the problem is not that white people don't believe the police have shot innocent black people, profile them or are more trigger-happy... it's that they are being asked to protest in a certain way (dishonor the anthem or the flag) and if you don't then it means you don't support them. That is almost a form of political extortion. DO THIS OR ELSE.

Come up with a more palatable way to express support and maybe we can talk. I have nothing against the flag or the anthem. They do not represent unjust laws or behavior to me. Being an American (which the flag represents) means you should not be subjected to unjust laws or behavior. Attack the behavior and not something that is a sidebar because it's obvious to me the conversation about the police and their relationship with the black community is not being discussed... it's only now about the form of protest.

Now the protest has become about Kaepernick not being hired to play football. It's a major segue. Just like destroying property. It's not working. Those forms of protests are missing the mark.
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It has long been argued that the Vietnam protesters extended the war.
 
Crockett said:
Some poor PR guy ... told to try to figure out a solution not to offend anybody is now learning ... hell yes, people can gripe about six American flags. In a nation of the perpetually offended, everyone interested can find a path to victimhood.
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The only thing missing will be the story that SFOT has people on staff named Andrew Jackson and Robert Lee along with an Antonio Santa Anna...
 
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