Crystal Meth
- Thread starter DigglerontheHoof
- Start date
uberheadymagical
250+ Posts
unpaintedhuffhines
1,000+ Posts
Hes not here
100+ Posts
Meth is by no means a non-violent drug. And I hope I'm misunderstanding people here who somehow believe the abuse of meth is only limited to the user. When people with families abuse these drugs they create multiple problems for those around them. Set aside the violence, and take into account the neglect of children, financial hardships and misery these people create. You have a group of people, particularly meth users, who need to be separated from the rest of society until they will voluntarily receive the attention they need and maintain that discipline. This is not a recreational drug. This is a drug where people live in flith and could care less about their kids and other people around them. When their actions ruin those people's lives who have no say in the matter then they don't deserve their freedom. And that is the norm, not the exception, when it comes to meth.
My meth story. Hazmat job, possible explosion. We show up and the patrol cop says you're not going to believe this. We go inside and there's a 10 year old lying on the couch with a hole in what appeared to be his head. Not a gunshot wound, pretty big and too much trauma. Come to find out the dad left his kid at home watching TV in the living room where he had also set up an extraction lab. Had the ephedrine taken from the tablets, mixed with the lithium batteries, then on to the anhydrous ammonia.
You chemists know that anhydrous ammonia is sensitive and highly combustible. Those who manufactur meth will steal the anhydrous ammonia and usually store it in a propane tank used for grills or something similiar. This guy did that, and when he left his son picked the tank up. The shift in the weight caused the ammonia to become unstable and shot the valve off the tank into the boy's head. We found the tank about 100 yards away because the force of the reaction caused it to shoot out the back door onto the adjoining street. How many chances are you going to give to somebody like that?
My meth story. Hazmat job, possible explosion. We show up and the patrol cop says you're not going to believe this. We go inside and there's a 10 year old lying on the couch with a hole in what appeared to be his head. Not a gunshot wound, pretty big and too much trauma. Come to find out the dad left his kid at home watching TV in the living room where he had also set up an extraction lab. Had the ephedrine taken from the tablets, mixed with the lithium batteries, then on to the anhydrous ammonia.
You chemists know that anhydrous ammonia is sensitive and highly combustible. Those who manufactur meth will steal the anhydrous ammonia and usually store it in a propane tank used for grills or something similiar. This guy did that, and when he left his son picked the tank up. The shift in the weight caused the ammonia to become unstable and shot the valve off the tank into the boy's head. We found the tank about 100 yards away because the force of the reaction caused it to shoot out the back door onto the adjoining street. How many chances are you going to give to somebody like that?
OrangeBlooded
500+ Posts
^
yeah, so lets send this guy to rehab. im sure he just needs to talk about it
yeah, so lets send this guy to rehab. im sure he just needs to talk about it
uberheadymagical
250+ Posts
unpaintedhuffhines
1,000+ Posts
jesus orangeblooded, can you respond w/o a smartass hyperbolic response?
of course people like that should go to jail
nobody here is saying that meth isn't a dangerous, affecting drug. Of course it is.
it appears there are 2 different discussions going on here....people trying to convince others that meth use is bad, and others trying to say that first time drug offenders would benefit from rehab vs going straight to jail
both of those points are correct
of course people like that should go to jail
nobody here is saying that meth isn't a dangerous, affecting drug. Of course it is.
it appears there are 2 different discussions going on here....people trying to convince others that meth use is bad, and others trying to say that first time drug offenders would benefit from rehab vs going straight to jail
both of those points are correct
Praise of Folly
100+ Posts
Your post is below so that you you know what I am referencing.
Actually, most "violent" crimes are committed by people who abuse alcohol, certainly not marijuana or even meth or heroin.
Just fyi and a clue for you.
Alcohol abusers are much more likely to commit "violent" crimes than other drug abusers who generally only commit "property" crimes.
Your post is below:
In reply to:
Actually, most "violent" crimes are committed by people who abuse alcohol, certainly not marijuana or even meth or heroin.
Just fyi and a clue for you.
Alcohol abusers are much more likely to commit "violent" crimes than other drug abusers who generally only commit "property" crimes.
Your post is below:
In reply to:
texashorne
250+ Posts
My dad lives near Cooper, Texas. He told me a story about this guy who lived in a trailor and was an auto mechanic, he kind of drifted in and out of employment but never used drugs or alchohol. Anyways, times got tough for him and the electric company shut his power off. So he goes to buy a generator(don't ask me why he didn't just pay the bill). His Ex wife and her new boyfriend were known meth users, saw he had a generator, and promptly stole it from him and sold it for cash for meth. Just a day in the life of some poor bastard who used to be married to someone who uses meth.
Hayden_Horn
1,000+ Posts
this subject hits pretty close to me.
my older half sister had a meth addiction. she went to prison. she is a convicted felon. for the rest of her life that will follow her around.
she made a choice, and she knows that there are consequences.
meth is truly a terrible drug. a horrific drug. i've been in favor of legalization of drugs on this board in the past, and i haven't really shifted too far from that point of view, but i view meth as an exception. i favor decriminalization of meth and heroin, but i cannot possibly favor legalization of such horrific, life ending drugs.
my sister is 15 years older than me, and has two children.
she ran in with the wrong crowd somewhere in her twenties. she's always made questionable decisions about whom she surrounds herself. both baby daddies are in prison for various crimes, including check fraud, theft, drugs, etc.
somewhere around 1998, she got caught up with meth.
my sister went from a bright and beautiful woman to something else. she's been clean for 7 years, and she still has a bit of an addled brain.
i've talked to her a little bit about it, and to me, meth is the devil. from what she told me, once you try it, you're addicted. and that's it. try it two or three more times, and you're ******.
she would shake down my mom for money, she would neglect her children so much that my niece basically helped raise my nephew. none of this was obvious to the outside observer. she kept up a very good facade.
but as she spiraled out of control, cracks began appearing. the forgetfulness at work (she worked for my mom), constantly needing money for emergency car repairs, or this or that - addicts are extremely good bullshitters. i caught on sooner than my mother, but one day my mom found needles in a sweater she had loaned my sister.
of course, they weren't hers, but we knew better. my mom fired her. that was the last straw - lack of performance and constant tardiness or sick days were also factors.
shortly thereafter, she was in a car that got pulled over. drugs were found, and boom, she was a felon.
six months in the pokey.
jail was not good for her. there wasn't a significant "drying out" facility, so basically she went through withdrawal in a cell. she was offered drugs from other prisoners (!!!), but was too scared to take them, because she just wanted to get out and see her kids again.
some of the letters she wrote my mother from jail are truly heartbreaking. at first, as she phased through withdrawal, they were borderline rants - barely intelligible.
then my dad died in 2000. her stepdad. they wouldn't let her come to the funeral. i think that kind of woke her up a bit - a dash of cold water to the face, if you will.
her letters became more mature, though still you could see the drug's effect on her brain. she told us how violent it was inside, and how drugs were easier to get in prison in some ways than on the outside.
she took classes on rehab, but essentially, she said they were ********.
during this time, her kids were either with my mother or their respective grandparents on the other side.
6 months later, and she gets out. she's ready to live on the right side of life again. she's done her time, and she's ready to go back to work and support her family.
wrong. it's virtually impossible for her to find a job. several employers tell her she is perfect for the job, were it not for the conviction on her record. they simply cannot and will not hire a convicted felon.
she continues looking for work for several months, until a cycle of despair took over her, and she turned again to drugs. the siren call of meth was too powerful through her desperation.
her son's father was back in the picture. he's bad news, but she was so in love with him that it didn't matter. he's a bullshitter's bullshitter. so good at the BS that even other BS'ers can't always spot it.
she's in a car with him and they get nailed for possession again. except this time, he signs an affidavit that it was his and his alone (it was on his person), and somehow she escapes prison again, though she needs to go to rehab.
she goes to rehab, and then she voluntarily starts attending AA meetings. she "graduates" from the program.
she continues looking for work. not even the post office will hire her. but she continues going to her meetings, and she's clean for almost a year and a half, on welfare, and trying to find work, and cannot.
finally, my mother offers her a job on a trial basis. she accepts, for less than she was making before. my mother makes it clear she is not her supervisor, she is her supervisor's supervisor, and as such, there will be no protection. she makes this clear to the employee whom my sister will be assisting. one **** up, and she had clearance to let her go.
well, fast forward about 5 years, and my sister is a shining employee - one of the best in the office, so much so that the other supervisors are envious.
i, for one, am glad they didn't "shoot" her, or lock her up and throw away the key. those of you advocating such things for desperate people suffering from crushing additions are deplorable, in my opinion.
but i do wonder, had my mother not given her a second chance, if she wouldn't be back in jail or prison.
the system is ******, and, imo, it encourages recidivism, because it permanently marks up someone's record for being an addict, and puts such huge roadblocks in the way of becoming a productive member of society.
my older half sister had a meth addiction. she went to prison. she is a convicted felon. for the rest of her life that will follow her around.
she made a choice, and she knows that there are consequences.
meth is truly a terrible drug. a horrific drug. i've been in favor of legalization of drugs on this board in the past, and i haven't really shifted too far from that point of view, but i view meth as an exception. i favor decriminalization of meth and heroin, but i cannot possibly favor legalization of such horrific, life ending drugs.
my sister is 15 years older than me, and has two children.
she ran in with the wrong crowd somewhere in her twenties. she's always made questionable decisions about whom she surrounds herself. both baby daddies are in prison for various crimes, including check fraud, theft, drugs, etc.
somewhere around 1998, she got caught up with meth.
my sister went from a bright and beautiful woman to something else. she's been clean for 7 years, and she still has a bit of an addled brain.
i've talked to her a little bit about it, and to me, meth is the devil. from what she told me, once you try it, you're addicted. and that's it. try it two or three more times, and you're ******.
she would shake down my mom for money, she would neglect her children so much that my niece basically helped raise my nephew. none of this was obvious to the outside observer. she kept up a very good facade.
but as she spiraled out of control, cracks began appearing. the forgetfulness at work (she worked for my mom), constantly needing money for emergency car repairs, or this or that - addicts are extremely good bullshitters. i caught on sooner than my mother, but one day my mom found needles in a sweater she had loaned my sister.
of course, they weren't hers, but we knew better. my mom fired her. that was the last straw - lack of performance and constant tardiness or sick days were also factors.
shortly thereafter, she was in a car that got pulled over. drugs were found, and boom, she was a felon.
six months in the pokey.
jail was not good for her. there wasn't a significant "drying out" facility, so basically she went through withdrawal in a cell. she was offered drugs from other prisoners (!!!), but was too scared to take them, because she just wanted to get out and see her kids again.
some of the letters she wrote my mother from jail are truly heartbreaking. at first, as she phased through withdrawal, they were borderline rants - barely intelligible.
then my dad died in 2000. her stepdad. they wouldn't let her come to the funeral. i think that kind of woke her up a bit - a dash of cold water to the face, if you will.
her letters became more mature, though still you could see the drug's effect on her brain. she told us how violent it was inside, and how drugs were easier to get in prison in some ways than on the outside.
she took classes on rehab, but essentially, she said they were ********.
during this time, her kids were either with my mother or their respective grandparents on the other side.
6 months later, and she gets out. she's ready to live on the right side of life again. she's done her time, and she's ready to go back to work and support her family.
wrong. it's virtually impossible for her to find a job. several employers tell her she is perfect for the job, were it not for the conviction on her record. they simply cannot and will not hire a convicted felon.
she continues looking for work for several months, until a cycle of despair took over her, and she turned again to drugs. the siren call of meth was too powerful through her desperation.
her son's father was back in the picture. he's bad news, but she was so in love with him that it didn't matter. he's a bullshitter's bullshitter. so good at the BS that even other BS'ers can't always spot it.
she's in a car with him and they get nailed for possession again. except this time, he signs an affidavit that it was his and his alone (it was on his person), and somehow she escapes prison again, though she needs to go to rehab.
she goes to rehab, and then she voluntarily starts attending AA meetings. she "graduates" from the program.
she continues looking for work. not even the post office will hire her. but she continues going to her meetings, and she's clean for almost a year and a half, on welfare, and trying to find work, and cannot.
finally, my mother offers her a job on a trial basis. she accepts, for less than she was making before. my mother makes it clear she is not her supervisor, she is her supervisor's supervisor, and as such, there will be no protection. she makes this clear to the employee whom my sister will be assisting. one **** up, and she had clearance to let her go.
well, fast forward about 5 years, and my sister is a shining employee - one of the best in the office, so much so that the other supervisors are envious.
i, for one, am glad they didn't "shoot" her, or lock her up and throw away the key. those of you advocating such things for desperate people suffering from crushing additions are deplorable, in my opinion.
but i do wonder, had my mother not given her a second chance, if she wouldn't be back in jail or prison.
the system is ******, and, imo, it encourages recidivism, because it permanently marks up someone's record for being an addict, and puts such huge roadblocks in the way of becoming a productive member of society.
unpaintedhuffhines
1,000+ Posts
as I was reading that I hoped for somewhat of a happy ending. I can't believe it actually happened. I hope things continue down a good path.
That's a rough story man. Excellent illustration of how nasty that **** is, as well as how sending her to prison may not have been the answer.
That's a rough story man. Excellent illustration of how nasty that **** is, as well as how sending her to prison may not have been the answer.
OrangeBlooded
500+ Posts
Hayden, that is a remarkable story. One that should be told over and over again to young people to show the effects of choosing to try drugs for recreation. Your sister seems to have turned her life around for the better. Maybe sometime in the future she could share her story with junior high and high school students.
Hayden_Horn
1,000+ Posts
unpaintedhuffhines
1,000+ Posts
definitely still some work to be done.
They've got a name for people like you H.I. That name is called "recidivism."
If any pres candidate would come out in favor of decriminalization I think I would vote for him/her regardless of the rest of their platform.
All of you people talking about violent crimes committed by drug users either don't realize or are conveniently omitting the fact that if the drugs were inexpensive and easily obtained no one would be committing those violent crimes.
Meth users don't get tweaked and then go out marauding in the streets inflicting mayhem on the good citizens of your community. They, like heroin and cocaine addicts, commit robberies to get money for drugs, or get in shootouts over drug turf if they are involved in the distribution side in order to support their habit.
ed teach, your example really pisses me off, bc instead of all the time and effort not to mention money that went in to trying to "save" your friend, he could have been put on a daily regimen of heroin very cheaply and safely and been a productive member of society until HE was ready to kick. Heroin addicts are very good at self-titrating to the dose that they need. They DON'T want to be stoned out of their gourds at all times. In fact, most OD's in addicts occur from the variable potency of the **** they get on the streets rather than a desire to keep upping their dosage.
Meth is a different animal. Meth addicts are always chasing that first high, and to my knowledge there is no "maintenance dose." It is a very big big undertaking to get off that ****, with multiple relapses the norm rather than the exception. Which to me makes it all the more ridiculous to treat meth addicts like criminals. We don't lock up drunks or fat people do we?
Unfortunately, more and more people I know, myself included, have a friend or relative with a story like Hayden's sister, although most don't have a happy ending like hers has (so far).
edit--he's not here that is a terrible story about that kid, but you know that **** wouldn't be happening if Merck were manufacturing the drug instead of rednecks cooking it up in their bathtubs.
If any pres candidate would come out in favor of decriminalization I think I would vote for him/her regardless of the rest of their platform.
All of you people talking about violent crimes committed by drug users either don't realize or are conveniently omitting the fact that if the drugs were inexpensive and easily obtained no one would be committing those violent crimes.
Meth users don't get tweaked and then go out marauding in the streets inflicting mayhem on the good citizens of your community. They, like heroin and cocaine addicts, commit robberies to get money for drugs, or get in shootouts over drug turf if they are involved in the distribution side in order to support their habit.
ed teach, your example really pisses me off, bc instead of all the time and effort not to mention money that went in to trying to "save" your friend, he could have been put on a daily regimen of heroin very cheaply and safely and been a productive member of society until HE was ready to kick. Heroin addicts are very good at self-titrating to the dose that they need. They DON'T want to be stoned out of their gourds at all times. In fact, most OD's in addicts occur from the variable potency of the **** they get on the streets rather than a desire to keep upping their dosage.
Meth is a different animal. Meth addicts are always chasing that first high, and to my knowledge there is no "maintenance dose." It is a very big big undertaking to get off that ****, with multiple relapses the norm rather than the exception. Which to me makes it all the more ridiculous to treat meth addicts like criminals. We don't lock up drunks or fat people do we?
Unfortunately, more and more people I know, myself included, have a friend or relative with a story like Hayden's sister, although most don't have a happy ending like hers has (so far).
edit--he's not here that is a terrible story about that kid, but you know that **** wouldn't be happening if Merck were manufacturing the drug instead of rednecks cooking it up in their bathtubs.
Am I the only one on this board who's ever done meth? I've done it. No problems. No addictions. I've known others that have done it too. One guy's life pretty much went in the toilet. Every one else turned out fine.
It's a free country, right? I think people should be free to ruin their own lives any way they want to. I think all drugs should be legal. We let people kill themselves with liquor, cigarettes and fast food. Why not drugs?
Drug laws cause far more problems for society than drugs themselves. The obscene profits available in the black market for drugs are the root of most "drug" violence. The artificially high price of coke is what turns many users on to the apparently more debilitating meth.
The best thing to do it legalize it all. Let people use their drug of choice. Punish those who drive on drugs just like we punish those who drive drunk. Punish those who rape, and steal on drugs just like we punish those who rob and steal on alcohol.
Take a look at what some of our front line soldiers are saying about the War on Drugs:
LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
Bernard
It's a free country, right? I think people should be free to ruin their own lives any way they want to. I think all drugs should be legal. We let people kill themselves with liquor, cigarettes and fast food. Why not drugs?
Drug laws cause far more problems for society than drugs themselves. The obscene profits available in the black market for drugs are the root of most "drug" violence. The artificially high price of coke is what turns many users on to the apparently more debilitating meth.
The best thing to do it legalize it all. Let people use their drug of choice. Punish those who drive on drugs just like we punish those who drive drunk. Punish those who rape, and steal on drugs just like we punish those who rob and steal on alcohol.
Take a look at what some of our front line soldiers are saying about the War on Drugs:
LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
Bernard
It’s tongue-in-cheek to say “Let’s just shoot him in the head”, but it pisses me off more than it should.
Do you think your **** doesn’t stink? I know you’re perfect in your own mind and your mistakes are fully justified, but you might be surprised at the judgments I could pass on you. Let’s analyze the failures in your life and treat you with the same harshness you describe.
I believe the first person to say it was using satire, but some people really think this way.
Do you think your **** doesn’t stink? I know you’re perfect in your own mind and your mistakes are fully justified, but you might be surprised at the judgments I could pass on you. Let’s analyze the failures in your life and treat you with the same harshness you describe.
I believe the first person to say it was using satire, but some people really think this way.
notreally
1,000+ Posts
meth is some tricky ****. i've done it, lots of it.... you know, i AM from oklahoma btw
here is the deal with meth. it is the only drug i ever tried that actually made you MORE productive. however, that is only a short term effect. after a while you become so crazy and lethargic... what once was a person with insanely clean house and productive work effort becomes the same person with taken apart electronics laying around your dirty house as you call in for work because you are simply too "crazy" to go in today. days blend into weeks, months etc.
really sneaky ****. totally different than a lot of drugs. also, not to be sexist, but it's effect on women has been noted as more severe. mainly due to the fact that you don't eat and thus become really skinny. a skinny drug is always going to devestate women. just the way it is.
but as the other poster mentioned, it is still about the person. some will become addicted, others will ask "now tell me why i would want to stay up for a week without sleeping again?... because i am not seeing why that is attractive".
you cannot save the "people" from any drug. stop trying. people don't need your saving. some do need to be locked up, after rehab has failed. and for most in jail, rehab was already given as an option. most, if not all, states have programs for felony offenders. so acting like states don't have any type of rehab programs is simply not accurate. texas, for instance, has several. although it is usually up to the county.
here is the deal with meth. it is the only drug i ever tried that actually made you MORE productive. however, that is only a short term effect. after a while you become so crazy and lethargic... what once was a person with insanely clean house and productive work effort becomes the same person with taken apart electronics laying around your dirty house as you call in for work because you are simply too "crazy" to go in today. days blend into weeks, months etc.
really sneaky ****. totally different than a lot of drugs. also, not to be sexist, but it's effect on women has been noted as more severe. mainly due to the fact that you don't eat and thus become really skinny. a skinny drug is always going to devestate women. just the way it is.
but as the other poster mentioned, it is still about the person. some will become addicted, others will ask "now tell me why i would want to stay up for a week without sleeping again?... because i am not seeing why that is attractive".
you cannot save the "people" from any drug. stop trying. people don't need your saving. some do need to be locked up, after rehab has failed. and for most in jail, rehab was already given as an option. most, if not all, states have programs for felony offenders. so acting like states don't have any type of rehab programs is simply not accurate. texas, for instance, has several. although it is usually up to the county.
OrangeBlooded
500+ Posts
Iconoclast Texan
250+ Posts
Hes not here
100+ Posts
To the legalization crowd, for meth and crack, it is simply not something the government could take to task in the society we live in. Accontability for one thing. People who do the right thing want to feel safe, they want to know that some mechanism is in place to deter. Do most tweekers go out and kill some innocent citizen? No, not even close. But they do, and victims want answers and they want to know why. It's not an easy answer. It's sure as hell not as easy as check yes for drugs or no for throw their life away.
There seems to be some type of linear thinking here, from both sides. If you're in favor of legalization that the addicts would only ruin their individual lives, not their children, friends, relatives. Just because a crime against another person/property isn't committed doesn't mean it should be tolerated. The chain reaction you see today is still going to exist. How do you make someone change, make someone get the help they need without a deterence such as jail time? That's the million dollar question. If you can find me a surefire answer you will make plenty of $$$ because you will save the gov lots of $$$. Rehabilitation is not a new dog. It needs a more thorough approach, but up until the 80s it was mildly tested. I think we all agree that you shouldn't do meth and crack. I hope so at least.
As far as violence is concerned, look at the economics that drive it. Turf wars exist because of money, because these mopes don't have any other means of making money. There is a resistance to their income in the form of another gangster or competition, so they kill each other. If you drive down profit from drugs, where are they going to make money? I'll tell you what, they're going to find something, somehow and their moral principle that drives the same violent nature prone to drug dealing isn't going to change. Whether it's selling meth or Mary Kay products, it's not going to change. Because a. it's their livelihood and b. they have nothing to lose. They need money, and they'll just as kill you over crack rock or eye liner if it means they get theirs.
There seems to be some type of linear thinking here, from both sides. If you're in favor of legalization that the addicts would only ruin their individual lives, not their children, friends, relatives. Just because a crime against another person/property isn't committed doesn't mean it should be tolerated. The chain reaction you see today is still going to exist. How do you make someone change, make someone get the help they need without a deterence such as jail time? That's the million dollar question. If you can find me a surefire answer you will make plenty of $$$ because you will save the gov lots of $$$. Rehabilitation is not a new dog. It needs a more thorough approach, but up until the 80s it was mildly tested. I think we all agree that you shouldn't do meth and crack. I hope so at least.
As far as violence is concerned, look at the economics that drive it. Turf wars exist because of money, because these mopes don't have any other means of making money. There is a resistance to their income in the form of another gangster or competition, so they kill each other. If you drive down profit from drugs, where are they going to make money? I'll tell you what, they're going to find something, somehow and their moral principle that drives the same violent nature prone to drug dealing isn't going to change. Whether it's selling meth or Mary Kay products, it's not going to change. Because a. it's their livelihood and b. they have nothing to lose. They need money, and they'll just as kill you over crack rock or eye liner if it means they get theirs.
Hes not here
100+ Posts
MilkmanDan
1,000+ Posts
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
When one of the primary ingredients in Meth is Drano why would anyone not think it would fry your brain?
texashorne
250+ Posts
Weekly Prediction Contest
* Predict HORNS-AGGIES *
Sat, Nov 30 • 6:30 PM on ABC
Recent Threads
-
Controversial opinions
- Started by Driver 8
- Replies: 675
- Quackenbush's
-
The Bible was created by man
- Started by Crockett
- Replies: 90
- Quackenbush's
-
Random ignorant comments
- Started by Chop
- Replies: 3
- Quackenbush's
-
Happy Mother’s Day
- Started by Dionysus
- Replies: 6
- Quackenbush's
-
Reflections on Reaching Age 80
- Started by HornHuskerDad
- Replies: 14
- Quackenbush's
-
Eclipse 2024
- Started by Dionysus
- Replies: 36
- Quackenbush's
-
PSA
- Started by SabreHorn
- Replies: 12
- Quackenbush's
Prediction Results Threads
