Coronavirus

All this back and forth but what about those of us who’ve had it? I see zero scientific reason to get the jab, zero. If that means I can’t go see Lady Gaga in concert whoop-de-doo, if I can’t use my season tickets there’s going to be hell to pay.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Companies have legal right to require vaccinations, new federal guidance says

Certainly that will be litigated but I'd suspect that gives companies a smidgen more air cover. The article also cites the tossed out legal challenge against the Texas hospital that mandated vaccine.
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Or what? They gonna fire those who won’t don’t get the vaccine?

As if you can fire a government employee for anything. Plus any union will fight and take it to court as being vaccinated isn’t part of any CBA, so they might as well piss up a rope.

And with labor shortages, you think companies are going to be firing their workers, especially the black ones who do, as said before, make up the highest percentage of non-vaccinated by ethic group?

They may say only vaccinated workers don’t have to wear Wuhan masks and do the coutie distancing. But it would be foolish for a company to fire someone for refusing to be vaccinated when it only affects other non-vaccinated people.
 
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Seattle Husker said:
Companies have legal right to require vaccinations, new federal guidance says

Certainly that will be litigated but I'd suspect that gives companies a smidgen more air cover. The article also cites the legal challenge against the Texas hospital that mandated vaccine what was tossed.
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People don't understand the legal framework here. We're not really talking about bodily injury claims or workers compensation claims. We're talking about wrongful termination claims or more accurately, making refusal to get the vaccine a condition of employment. The Texas Supreme Court recognizes one common law exception to the employment at-will doctrine - the right not to be terminated for refusal to perform a criminal act (the so-called Sabine Pilot doctrine). It is very narrow. Furthermore, it was decided in the 1980s when the Court was far more plaintiff-friendly. The current court hates it and has been doing everything it can to narrow it ever since it was handed down. In fact, it hates all exceptions to the at-will doctrine. It's not likely to recognize a new one.
 
That’s for the state of Texas, but you have a better chance of waiting for a Federal employee to die of old age than being able to fire them. Plus anyone covered by a CBA I’d think could not be fired as it’s not a set term of employment.

Plus how is a company going to fire anyone who’s black? They’re desperate to hire blacks and aren’t going to fire them for not getting a vaccine.
 
Duck Dodgers said:
Plus how is a company going to fire anyone who’s black? They’re desperate to hire blacks and aren’t going to fire them for not getting a vaccine.
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True. When I worked for Texas Instruments (defense contractor, then) it was ridiculously hard to hire people of color who were qualified. It was three times harder to keep them after 3 yrs service

Going fwd, I don't see how the US govt nor corporations don't get sued six ft under if they mandate the vaxx for employment 'privileges''. If Afr Americans can sue, the courts can't block other races from doing the same. Times change, mindsets change. The way C19 has been mishandled on so many levels has been unfair, IMO courts will have to see the impact

If people can burn down bldgs in Minneapolis (tell me THAT isn't criminal) and get away with it (the VPOTUS rallied their cause) then no one can tell me the govt or employers can't be sued for using people as guinea pigs with an unapproved vax
 
Two points. First, being black doesn't mean you can't get fired for any reason. Blacks get fired everyday. Second, it's procedurally hard to fire federal employees. It's not particularly hard to impose conditions on their employment. (My wife is a federal employee.)
 
Mr. Deez said:
Two points. First, being black doesn't mean you can't get fired for any reason. Blacks get fired everyday. Second, it's procedurally hard to fire federal employees. It's not particularly hard to impose conditions on their employment. (My wife is a federal employee.)
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Is your wife black? If not, it's a different ballgame

From my professional experience, as an employee of a subcontractor for the DOD, firing a black professional is almost impossible. Not pissing on your leg here, just telling how it was, how it is, and how it likely will be for a very very long time.

Afr Americans don't get fired everyday in a medium sized workplace where quotas are to be met. Let's be honest here, ok. Our plant had approx 2200 employees, I can remember only one being outright fired in 20+ yrs . Drug testing offenses (5). The rule then was 3 strikes you're out, but this cat got 2 foul balls somehow

People that work in a stockroom or assy line, then yes, firing POC happens. Again, the offenses are pretty flagrant. Flexibility is applied.

I have no major problems with the latitude given in the workplace for POC, I'm just giving you an honest picture
 
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Mr. Deez said:
You left something out. It takes a court that has spent the last 30 years mostly closing the courthouse doors in people's faces (on cases with far more merit than this would have) choosing to wildly change course and throwing its biggest donors and the most entrenched and powerful people in the state under the bus. It would be almost as big of a switch as Clarence Thomas suddenly deciding to rule with abortion providers. I just don't see it happening.
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Surely you realize that there would be litigation in more places than JUST the Great State of Texas.
 
This is for the wait and see crowd.

National vaccination rate is like 48%. Meanwhile, back at the hospitals, non-vaccinated patients make up 97% of hospitalized covid patients.

If the vaccine did not work or provided "zero scientific reason to get the jab, zero" then those numbers would be close. Hell, they probably would be more like 25% as because vaccinations skew older.
 
OUBubba said:
This is for the wait and see crowd.

National vaccination rate is like 48%. Meanwhile, back at the hospitals, non-vaccinated patients make up 97% of hospitalized covid patients.

If the vaccine did not work or provided "zero scientific reason to get the jab, zero" then those numbers would be close. Hell, they probably would be more like 25% as because vaccinations skew older.
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What hospitals, and what is the median age of those hospitalized?
 
horninchicago said:
What hospitals, and what is the median age of those hospitalized?
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That's nationwide. I've seen 99% and I've seen 97%. I presume that this number will fall due to the contagious spread of the variant. The data will vary by state. Here's mississippi's: 1,908 new COVID-19 cases, 4 new deaths reported Thursday in Mississippi

The data a few weeks ago said breakthrough infections were .0034. That number will go up as more people contract and spread the delta variant. We had two breakthrough's last week in our building. They're both back at work now.
 
4 deaths in a state, eh? I mean, is that something to continue to talk about? How many people died on the roads in that state yesterday I wonder. How many people were killed at abortion "clinics" on Thursday, I wonder....
 
Horn2RunAgain said:
Is your wife black? If not, it's a different ballgame

From my professional experience, as an employee of a subcontractor for the DOD, firing a black professional is almost impossible. Not pissing on your leg here, just telling how it was, how it is, and how it likely will be for a very very long time.

Afr Americans don't get fired everyday in a medium sized workplace where quotas are to be met. Let's be honest here, ok. Our plant had approx 2200 employees, I can remember only one being outright fired in 20+ yrs . Drug testing offenses (5). The rule then was 3 strikes you're out, but this cat got 2 foul balls somehow

People that work in a stockroom or assy line, then yes, firing POC happens. Again, the offenses are pretty flagrant. Flexibility is applied.

I have no major problems with the latitude given in the workplace for POC, I'm just giving you an honest picture
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My wife isn't black. However, one of her colleagues is black. Her supervisor is black, and her former supervisor is black. He got fired. Before she worked for her current agency, she was a DoDEA special ed teacher in one of their overseas schools. She replaced a black man who was in the Overseas Federation of Teachers (union) and was fired.

My point here isn't about federal employees of any color and how easy it is for them to get canned. Most people aren't federal employees, but if you want to look at that angle, it's important to look at why it's hard to fire federal employees.

It's hard, because they usually can't be fired arbitrarily, and they have due process rights - both administratively and in the courts. They have to be fired for cause, and that cause has to be documented. For things like poor job performance, that's often very subjective. What's "poor?" How much poor performance is enough to fire? How have you treated other employees who performed similarly? You can see why that can become a big and very expensive mess, which is why government managers usually don't want to go to the trouble of firing people.

When it comes to a vaccine requirement, it's a lot more straightforward and objective and easier to document. Did the person get vaccinated? No? There's your cause. Much, much easier to fire in that situation.
 
mb227 said:
Surely you realize that there would be litigation in more places than JUST the Great State of Texas.
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I recognize that, but those challenges are going to be present in other states as well. Think about the politics. Most states that are plaintiff-friendly and therefore willing to recognize exceptions to the at-will doctrine are politically liberal. However, most politically liberal states are favorable to the vaccine and receptive to limitations on personal freedom in the name of public health. Finding a state that is plaintiff-friendly but also vaccine-skeptical is going to be very tough. There won't be many.

Let's put it this way. I'm very plaintiff friendly and a big 7th Amendment believer. I'm unvaccinated and skeptical of the vaccine. If I sat on the Texas Supreme Court, I would not recognize a wrongful termination case for a vaccine mandate.
 
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??? Is the National vaccination rate dropping? Back when the goal was 70% I thought I saw where we were in the high 60’s. Is it now lower because we’re including a greater age span?
 
OUBubba said:
This is for the wait and see crowd.

National vaccination rate is like 48%. Meanwhile, back at the hospitals, non-vaccinated patients make up 97% of hospitalized covid patients.

If the vaccine did not work or provided "zero scientific reason to get the jab, zero" then those numbers would be close. Hell, they probably would be more like 25% as because vaccinations skew older.
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I'll put that in the category of made-up statistics. Just the other day, we were being told it was 99% of patients with the rona (never mind that they were not discussing whether the admission had even been FOR the sniffles.

It's fear porn to enable the fear mongering.

And now you have the Surgeon General claiming EVERYONE is eventually going to get Delta if unvaccinated. Not a single study to back the claim but, hey, let's run with fear porn. Add in Fauci claiming that it is not even known whether increased viral load actually is provable as increased transmissibility, but, again...let's require everyone to mask up regardless of status.

Meanwhile, we still have no asymptomatic spread AND we have a sieve at the southern border. If there were REALLY a problem, then the Border should be closed and biohazard kits given to every citizen into which to place the used masks. Instead, someone who cannot fly from Paris to NYC can just get to Mexico and come in with a welcome mat. Oh, and if they are positive, they will STILL just be waved in with no tracking whatsoever...
 
That’s a conversation wife and I had recently mb, essentially why, if this is Armageddon as Fauci, et al would have us believe, have they not paid more than lip service to the border situation?
 
Seattle Husker said:
It's crazy that people need to be incentivized to get the vaccine yet here we are.
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Its crazy that we are wasting money on kabuki theatre while we have a sieve at the southern border and STILL no discussion about why a mask worn to prevent a DEADLY virus is just casually thrown away instead of being treated as the biohazard that it would seem to be...

MOST people are MORE at risk FROM the vaccine than by NOT having it.
 
UTChE96 said:
Biden wants to pay people $100 to get the vaccine. Good grief.
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A trillion here, a trillion there...SippyCupJoe and his lunatic left comrades long ago abandoned any grounding in the real economic damage their nonsense is doing for generations to come.
 
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