Coronavirus

[OUBubba]

Interesting NY Times article that many here might concur with. The Morning: More Covid mysteries

 

[Clean]

I was glad to hear that Abbott says Texas is going to emphasize personal responsibility and not government mandates. That’s the way it should have been all along. If people want it and perceive a benefit, they’ll get it.

 

[mb227]

I was glad to hear that Abbott says Texas is going to emphasize personal responsibility and not government mandates. That’s the way it should have been all along. If people want it and perceive a benefit, they’ll get it.

Yep. The numbers pretty much shoot down the fear-mongers. Texas reported a whopping 35 fatalities yesterday. Somehow we ALSO saw an increase of more than a hundred ventilators that are available Statewide (a total that is now north of 7200).

In Houston, there were more ICU beds than the previous day (I just started keeping up with this number) even as there was a claimed increase of 85 people hospitalized in the region with COVID (not BECAUSE of 'rona). Even with the big, bad Delta variant floating around, we STILL remain in low to mid double digits on fatalities...yet if we believe the likes of Don Lemon or any of the MSDNC reporting, bodies should be stacked like cord wood...

So much for the claims that this sends everyone to the hospital/ICU/ventilator/cemetery.

 

[horninchicago]

Yep. The numbers pretty much shoot down the fear-mongers. Texas reported a whopping 35 fatalities yesterday. Somehow we ALSO saw an increase of more than a hundred ventilators that are available Statewide (a total that is now north of 7200).

In Houston, there were more ICU beds than the previous day (I just started keeping up with this number) even as there was a claimed increase of 85 people hospitalized in the region with COVID (not BECAUSE of 'rona). Even with the big, bad Delta variant floating around, we STILL remain in low to mid double digits on fatalities...yet if we believe the likes of Don Lemon or any of the MSDNC reporting, bodies should be stacked like cord wood...

So much for the claims that this sends everyone to the hospital/ICU/ventilator/cemetery.

I wonder how many babies were murdered yesterday in Texas, or how many people died on the roads.

 

[Duck Dodgers]

My wife isn't black. However, one of her colleagues is black. Her supervisor is black, and her former supervisor is black. He got fired. Before she worked for her current agency, she was a DoDEA special ed teacher in one of their overseas schools. She replaced a black man who was in the Overseas Federation of Teachers (union) and was fired.

My point here isn't about federal employees of any color and how easy it is for them to get canned. Most people aren't federal employees, but if you want to look at that angle, it's important to look at why it's hard to fire federal employees.

It's hard, because they usually can't be fired arbitrarily, and they have due process rights - both administratively and in the courts. They have to be fired for cause, and that cause has to be documented. For things like poor job performance, that's often very subjective. What's "poor?" How much poor performance is enough to fire? How have you treated other employees who performed similarly? You can see why that can become a big and very expensive mess, which is why government managers usually don't want to go to the trouble of firing people.

When it comes to a vaccine requirement, it's a lot more straightforward and objective and easier to document. Did the person get vaccinated? No? There's your cause. Much, much easier to fire in that situation.

Yeah, but if getting a Wuhan shot wasn't a condition of employment when they were hired, or as part of their labor contract, won't it be impossible to add that as a condition after employment?

Look, no Federal employee is going to get fired for not getting a Wuhan shot. Legally it would be taken to court by their union, politically the Democrat party isn't going to make their most loyal base, government workers, hit the street.

All that union money can quite easily not be kicked back to the Party come next election cycle, and the days off that Federal employees get to work on campaigns (one of the more stupid and crooked things in America) would suddenly be filled up with other things besides working to elect Democrats.

Even Slow Joe mumbled that at most they're going to make non-Wuhan shotters wear dirty socks on their face and be at coutie distance. Which I tend to doubt will happen as well.

As blacks remain the highest non-vaccinated by ethic group, you could end up with the politically untenable situation of a big group of blacks in an office wearing Wuhans, spread apart like they have bad BO, and generally shunned, while the honkies get to smile and have close meetings and sing and dance around like a Bollywood movie. Not a good look for the DIE (Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity) movement.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Yeah, but if getting a Wuhan shot wasn't a condition of employment when they were hired, or as part of their labor contract, won't it be impossible to add that as a condition after employment?

It depends on the terms of the collective bargaining agreement (CBA). Most federal employees are not unionized and aren't covered by a CBA. (For example, my wife is not unionized.) For those who aren't, the federal government can pretty readily impose conditions on employment even after someone joins the federal workforce.

Look, no Federal employee is going to get fired for not getting a Wuhan shot. Legally it would be taken to court by their union, politically the Democrat party isn't going to make their most loyal base, government workers, hit the street.

You assume three things that probably wouldn't go as you expect. First, you assume that all or most federal employees are unionized. They aren't. It's less than a third.

Second, you assume the union would side with the employee resisting the vaccine. There is a very strong likelihood that it would not. This is anecdotal, but the Department of Defense Education Activity (DoDEA) hires teachers at overseas military installations (such as in Germany, the UK, Italy, Japan, Korea, etc.). Those teachers are mostly unionized. The union strongly pushed for the vaccine's availability for teachers and actively pushed for teachers to get it as soon as it immediately. Furthermore, teachers put significant social pressure on each other to get it. I don't see them doing a 180 to advocate for a holdout that their political allies detest and whose colleagues ridicule.

Third, you assume that going to court means the union would win. That's going to depend on the CBA. I haven't read the CBAs, but unions usually don't bargain against vaccines. They typically view vaccines as a good thing.

 

[bystander]

Conservatives who don't get the vaccination are considered killers by the BA. Blacks who refuse due to historical concerns and mistrust of medicine are given a pass.

Would the BA fire black workers for not getting a vaccine.

Highly doubtful.

 

[EDT]

 

[Horn6721]

iis
That is a great breakthrough . Using it as a treatnent for those with the virus And using it as a preventive for family members makes sense
Here is hoping.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Interesting NY Times article that many here might concur with. The Morning: More Covid mysteries

It is interesting, but they are oblivious. Leonhart acknowledges that "we" (whoever that is) don't know much, which is true. (After all, if they did know much, Texas and Florida would be havens of death, and Swedes would basically be an extinct ethnicity.) However, a logical person who figures that out should be able to make the connection that if you don't know much, you shouldn't act as though you do. You shouldn't speak with certainty, and you shouldn't ridicule those who don't accept what you say at face value especially when you've been caught in lies.

 

[OUBubba]

It is interesting, but they are oblivious. Leonhart acknowledges that "we" (whoever that is) don't know much, which is true. (After all, if they did know much, Texas and Florida would be havens of death, and Swedes would basically be an extinct ethnicity.) However, a logical person who figures that out should be able to make the connection that if you don't know much, you shouldn't act as though you do. You shouldn't speak with certainty, and you shouldn't ridicule those who don't accept what you say at face value especially when you've been caught in lies.

Agree. That said a vaccine and a mask are the bare minimum. Especially the mask.

 

[Statalyzer]

As someone who has had both Pfizer shots I can say that being cautious of a drug that has not even been approved doesn't make someone an anti-vaxxer.

There is a meaningful difference between "Emergency Authorization" and the normal process, but it's incorrect to just flat-out say the vaccine is non-approved. The biggest difference with Emergency Authorization is actually the order of operations, not the safety standards.

Normally it goes: produce a few -> test them -> see results of tests -> approve/disapprove -> begin mass production and distribution if approved

Emergency Authorization goes: begin mass production -> test them as soon as you have them -> see results of tests -> approve/disapprove -> begin distribution if approved

The big difference isn't approval standards, it's the risk of mass-producing the vaccines before approval, meaning if you don't end up getting approval you have a big stock of vaccines you have to just toss out, so it's potentially a lot of wasted time and money.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Agree. That said a vaccine and a mask are the bare minimum. Especially the mask.

The size of the imposition isn't the issue (though I think the injection of genetic material into one's body is a significant imposition). The issue is the credibility of the person claiming authority. You need credibility to be listened to and taken seriously. Every time you get something wrong and certainly every time you've been caught in a lie or violating what you claim to be your principles (like breaking your own quarantine to go bang somebody else's wife), it's going to damage your credibility. And eventually people are going to tune you out.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Every time you get something wrong and certainly every time you've been caught in a lie or violating what you claim to be your principles (like breaking your own quarantine to go bang somebody else's wife), it's going to damage your credibility.

Curious...who has been caught in a lie multiple times regarding Covid?

 

[Mr. Deez]

Curious...who has been caught in a lie multiple times regarding Covid?

Fauci has been caught saying some pretty questionable things and telling the "noble lie." So have several governors. And of course, censoring talk about the virus's origin for a year (which frankly never made sense) and seeing several physicians and the entire media giving BLM protestors their blessing while telling others to stay home fosters massive and long term distrust of the system. You can't expect people to just shrug that sort of thing off.

It doesn't mean nothing these guys say is true, but it's asking too much to say they should be reflexively believed or that it's unreasonable to second guess them or their motives.

 

[Mr. Deez]

@Duck Dodgers - an article that disagrees with my view on the legality of a vaccine mandate for federal employees.

 

[OUBubba]

Fauci has been caught saying some pretty questionable things and telling the "noble lie." So have several governors. And of course, censoring talk about the virus's origin for a year (which frankly never made sense) and seeing several physicians and the entire media giving BLM protestors their blessing while telling others to stay home fosters massive and long term distrust of the system. You can't expect people to just shrug that sort of thing off.

It doesn't mean nothing these guys say is true, but it's asking too much to say they should be reflexively believed or that it's unreasonable to second guess them or their motives.

The lies are not lies. You’re buying into the narrative. You wear a coat when it’s cold and there are plenty of coats. When coats are limited and the weather is mild maybe you dont. Outer ware changes as the weather and supply of clothing changes.

I thought you were saying I was banging someone’s wife.

 

[Garmel]

The lies are not lies. You’re buying into the narrative. You wear a coat when it’s cold and there are plenty of coats. When coats are limited and the weather is mild maybe you dont. Outer ware changes as the weather and supply of clothing changes.

I thought you were saying I was banging someone’s wife.

Man, you've bought into the narrative hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Fauci has been caught saying some pretty questionable things and telling the "noble lie." So have several governors. And of course, censoring talk about the virus's origin for a year (which frankly never made sense) and seeing several physicians and the entire media giving BLM protestors their blessing while telling others to stay home fosters massive and long term distrust of the system. You can't expect people to just shrug that sort of thing off.

It doesn't mean nothing these guys say is true, but it's asking too much to say they should be reflexively believed or that it's unreasonable to second guess them or their motives.

The only "noble lie" i can recall is masks aren't necessary whereas a month later he admitted it was to protect the supply of N95 masks for healthcare workers. Are there others?

Need to be careful of attributing ill intentions as new information was input into decisions.

 

[OUBubba]

The only "noble lie" i can recall is masks aren't necessary whereas a month later he admitted it was to protect the supply of N95 masks for healthcare workers. Are there others?

Need to be careful of attributing ill intentions as new information was input into decisions.

I made an enemy at work after a snarky email on 2/9/20 about new mask rules that would see PPE last only 9 days.

 

[OUBubba]

I made an enemy at work after a snarky email on 2/9/20 about new mask rules that would see PPE last only 9 days.

And it was thought initially that it was not airborne. People were wiping down groceries. And the German scientist who discovered that asymptomatic carriers spread it as well. Things like that changed the guidance as we went.

 

[Monahorns]

The lies are not lies. You’re buying into the narrative.

Who writes "the narrative". It isn't who Deez is listening to. And the lies are apparent to anyone looking at data. I look at hard data most everyday. Then I look at the pronouncements of "the narrative". They contradict.

lies =/= lies is pure Hegelian clap trap. How Should We Then Live? is a total vaccination to such illogic and explains where it comes from.

 

[Monahorns]

By the way, Sweden has been at 0 deaths for a week last I saw. Probably now 2 weeks.

 

[theiioftx]

CDC Still Baffled People Are Paying Attention To Them

 

[theiioftx]

The only "noble lie" i can recall is masks aren't necessary whereas a month later he admitted it was to protect the supply of N95 masks for healthcare workers. Are there others?

Need to be careful of attributing ill intentions as new information was input into decisions.

You think there has only been one “noble” lie and that’s it? The fact they lied once is enough to tell me they will lie again. And they have. Fauci should be prosecuted for his lies and the fact he was sending money to Wuhan for these dangerous studies. My hope is that after the republicans take over after the midterms, Fauci and others go to jail.

 

[Mr. Deez]

The only "noble lie" i can recall is masks aren't necessary whereas a month later he admitted it was to protect the supply of N95 masks for healthcare workers. Are there others?

Need to be careful of attributing ill intentions as new information was input into decisions.

If you take a look at the Slate article, you'll see that there are others. It also explains why they were lies (even if noble), not just attributable to new information.

And this issue is bigger than Fauci himself. If you're a politician or alleged expert who breaks his own quarantine orders, you haven't told a falsehood verbally, but you're essentially telling the public that you don't believe in the risks that you use to justify those orders. That is as damaging to one's credibility as an overt lie. Ditto for double standards of all types.

And when one's credibility is damaged people will believe him or her less. That's not crazy. It's a rational response.

 

[Mr. Deez]

The lies are not lies. You’re buying into the narrative. You wear a coat when it’s cold and there are plenty of coats. When coats are limited and the weather is mild maybe you dont. Outer ware changes as the weather and supply of clothing changes.

What narrative?

I thought you were saying I was banging someone’s wife.

Lol. No, not you. I'm talking about British epidemiologist Neil Ferguson. The chick he was banging was Dutch and decent looking. She was a skank, but even she had her standards. She wouldn't be getting with a dude from Oklahoma.

 

[OUBubba]

What narrative?



Lol. No, not you. I'm talking about British epidemiologist Neil Ferguson. The chick he was banging was Dutch and decent looking. She was a skank, but even she had her standards. She wouldn't be getting with a dude from Oklahoma.

Well done good sir. Lol

I’m talking about the “lies”. He said masks were not necessary by regular people when people were buying masks off the shelves like it was toilet paper. Painting masks, Batman masks, you name it. And that led to a large PPE shortage/crisis. It was also not believed to be airborne at that time. That’s the thing about a novel virus. We learn as we go.

All of his emails were released. I’m still waiting for the bombshell.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Well done good sir. Lol

I’m talking about the “lies”. He said masks were not necessary by regular people when people were buying masks off the shelves like it was toilet paper. Painting masks, Batman masks, you name it. And that led to a large PPE shortage/crisis. It was also not believed to be airborne at that time. That’s the thing about a novel virus. We learn as we go.

All of his emails were released. I’m still waiting for the bombshell.

"Bombshell" is subjective. Read the Slate article. He lied. You can justify the lie, but it's still a lie, and even a "nice lie" damages one's credibility.

And again, my point here isn't to say nothing he says is believable. My point is that you can't lie and expect to be believed reflexively. I also understand that facts change that warrant a change in one's position. That's fine, but again, changing your position based on new evidence is going to make people wonder if the position you're currently taking is also going to change. That's a rational response. What's really needed here is a lot more humility and respect for skepticism. The "experts" on this simply haven't earned the right to be believed automatically.

 

[mchammer]

"Bombshell" is subjective. Read the Slate article. He lied. You can justify the lie, but it's still a lie, and even a "nice lie" damages one's credibility.

And again, my point here isn't to say nothing he says is believable. My point is that you can't lie and expect to be believed reflexively. I also understand that facts change that warrant a change in one's position. That's fine, but again, changing your position based on new evidence is going to make people wonder if the position you're currently taking is also going to change. That's a rational response. What's really needed here is a lot more humility and respect for skepticism. The "experts" on this simply haven't earned the right to be believed automatically.

Further, most of the guidance is aimed at the unwashed masses. It may not be the best advice for your personally. I thought individual medicine was the future. Apparently not.