Coronavirus

[RainH2burntO]

I think he genuinely believes he is doing the right thing. I just disagree with him.

Notably, I'm able to disagree with him without assuming he is an idiot, or a puppet, or an evil monster, or whatever. Too many in our country have lost that ability.

I agree with your sentiment, but my serious concern is how do we respond/react/recognize when there is evil or the untoward infiltrating our land? If every conspiracy theory is scoffed at and every accuser bemoaned, every outer outed and every patriot decried...you have the proverbial frog in the pot. I've researched communism and many other vile philosophies and they depend on this to take root. Not everything is true...but that doesn't mean nothing is.
As I mentioned a week or so ago, I think the elevator scene in Hitchcock's North by Northwest captures this well.

 

[mb227]

In Texas, positive tests results are now down to 5%. Korea, the gold standard, achieved 3%. WHO recommends 10% minimum to insure decent testing. Recall I said less than 5% should be the goal about 2 weeks ago. Now Trump haters are saying not enough people are taking the test.

Never mind that a rate is a rate, regardless of the number of persons tested. There are too many idiots out there who are incapable of doing some very simple math...

 

[Joe Fan]

...There is anecdotal information showing efficacy of many different treatments. The only thing that is unique about HCL is that President Trump touted it early on. There is no other reason to elevate it over other treatment options. /.....

He mentioned it bc that was the readily available information that was known at the time. My memory is that all he said was it "looks promising." There was data from France (2 sets) and data from a doctor in NY working in a Hasidic community. I posted all of that in here before Trump even. Why should he not mention it? I believe that had this been Obama doing the same, you guys would be applauding him for taking a public position directly at odds with Big Pharma. He would be feted, even called a genius. Perhaps he would be nominated for another Nobel?

But none of that for the Trump. Instead it was "attack!" As it is every day. But this time, all you nattering nabobs of negativism may have caused someone suffering at the hands of this virus the chance to receive a lifesaving medication. You politicized a treatment. That is on you.

 

[NJlonghorn]

He touted it bc that is the information that was available at the time. There was data from France (2 sets) and data from a doctor in NY working in a Hasidic community. I posted it in here. Why should he not mention it?

There was nothing wrong with President Trump mentioning the promise if HCL. I do think he overstated the potential, but that is only a minor quibble.

My issue is that President Trump's supporters give too much credit to HCL as a potential treatment. It is nothing more than one of many experimental treatments that show a glimmer of promise. Because of that glimmer of promise, it is being studied. The idea that it should be used more, whether at the expense of or in lieu of other treatments, is not supported by evidence.

 

[Joe Fan]

There was nothing wrong with President Trump mentioning the promise if HCL. I do think he overstated the potential, but that is only a minor quibble.

My issue is that President Trump's supporters give too much credit to HCL as a potential treatment. It is nothing more than one of many experimental treatments that show a glimmer of promise. Because of that glimmer of promise, it is being studied. The idea that it should be used more, whether at the expense of or in lieu of other treatments, is not supported by evidence.

There is no doubt that Hydroxychloroquine saved lives.
Even Tom Hanks was given it. However, he refused to praise it because, at the time, you guys were trying to tie it around Trump's neck and strangle him with it. And so Hanks kept it quiet thus preventing wider awareness of the treatment which may have helped tens of thousands more. And for what? Because the hate animal has to eat. Daily.

 

[Joe Fan]

...My issue is that President Trump's supporters give too much credit to HCL as a potential treatment. ....

Your side made HCL a political football
The Trump people jumped in once they figured out how much it got under your skin - it was the response. But they didnt start it.

 

[mchammer]

 

[mchammer]

Note Phase 2 trial starts soon and Phase 3 trial to start in July. By Sept 1, it may be known whether a vaccine will work.

Moderna shares surge following positive data on coronavirus vaccine trial — CNBC

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[LongestHorn]

Does that mean we can start filling stadiums, or are they playing to empty stands?

 

[mchammer]

Does that mean we can start filling stadiums, or are they playing to empty stands?

Likely neither. Just means they return. (Serious answer)

 

[mchammer]

My best proposal is allow students and season ticket holders to attend 1 out of 6 home games. Thus, stadium is 1/6 full (1 out of six seats on average).

 

[LongestHorn]

So wtf does return mean?

 

[horninchicago]

More from the Joisey Shore -- the popo came to the gym, made sure everyone knew they were in violation of Phil Murphy's rules, then they left, got a huge round of applause

Wow, that cheer was very stirring and emotional! Loved it!

 

[horninchicago]

Camden isn't on the shore, but in all other respects I agree with you on this post.

It's on the shore of the Delaware River.

 

[LongestHorn]

 

[Monahorns]

Does that mean we can start filling stadiums, or are they playing to empty stands?

Can. My hope is that stadiums will come up with some guidelines, improve ventilation of indoor venues, and place hand sanitizer bottles all over the stadium.

It will hurt some of the workers, but maybe even allow fans to bring in their own drinks/snacks.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

I've understood this to be your position from the very start. You believe that doctors are withholding hydrocloroquine treatment for partisan political reasons. I don't. I believe that doctors are using HCL in some cases and not others, in a genuine effort to figure out what works.

I agree with part of your point. When a patient is on the verge of death, and we don't know what to do, we should try something -- even if it is unproven. But I don't agree that that "something" should always be (or include) HCL. In contrast, I prefer the approach that the medical community is taking -- try a variety of promising approaches under controlled conditions to figure out what works and what doesn't.

As I mentioned in my last post, HCL is just one of many treatments showing some level of promise. So let's suppose there are 10 experimental treatments, each of which is between 5% and 25% likely to work. Do you think we should give every patient all 10 of those treatments? Simultaneously, or in series? If in series, how long do you wait after giving one treatment before trying the next? What if there are 20 promising experimental treatments?

I can think of only two reasons to give every patient HCL. The first would be if we knew that we could improve patients' chances by adding HCL to whatever other treatment we are using. But that is not known at this time. It is just as possible that using HCL interferes with other, more promising treatments. We will never know if we don't continue experimenting in a controlled way.

The second plausible reason to give HCL to everyone -- and the reason I think you and your far-right brethren continue to push HCL so fervently -- is trying to prove President Trump right. That is just as partisan as not giving anyone HCL. The truly non-partisan approach is to continue to experiment until the medical community figures out what works best.

One final point. I support President Trump's actions to relax FDA rules on clinical trials. Those rules have always been unduly restrictive, and doubly so in the face of a rapidly-spreading disease. We have to be more nimble, and President Trump deserves credit for making that happen. Notably, he has made that happen for HCL and for numerous other experimental treatments. That is exactly the right approach.

The issue here is not with you but rather the talking heads on MSNBC, CNN, the New York Times, the Washington Post and all of the other arse faces in the White House press corps that insist that hydroxychloroquine is a Trump drug that might kill you even though doctors all over the world have been using it to great effect in treating patients with coronavirus with far greater than a 20% success rate.

"Anecdotal" does not mean conjecture or hypothesis or "this is just my opinion." It's literally the experience that people have. When a doctor says "I have treated hundreds of people with this drug in combination with other drugs and it is overwhelmingly effective" that doesn't mean that doctor is saying "well I think this works and it's my opinion that it might work but I don't have any real evidence to back it up."

The doctor is literally saying "I have literally use this drug and it has literally helped most of the people I have given it to and here are the results."

I am 100% certain you understand all of this but there are a lot of dumb asses out there that don't that think trump wants them to go drink fish tank cleaner and it's just one big guessing game.

Go tell these doctors that their treatment experience doesnt mean crap because after all it's just "anecdotal."

 

[NJlonghorn]

There is no doubt that Hydroxychloroquine saved lives.
Even Tom Hanks was given it. However, he refused to praise it because, at the time, you guys were trying to tie it around Trump's neck and strangle him with it. And so Hanks kept it quiet thus preventing wider awareness of the treatment which may have helped tens of thousands more. And for what? Because the hate animal has to eat. Daily.

Your argument would make sense if the choice was between HCL and nothing. But it isn't. The choice is between HCL and some other treatment.

Sure, some patients might've been saved if their doctors had switched them from Treatment X to HCL. But other patients might've been killed by the very same switch. Without further study, we will never know.

We need to let the medical and scientific communities address this problem, not the political community.

 

[NJlonghorn]

When a doctor says "I have treated hundreds of people with this drug in combination with other drugs and it is overwhelmingly effective" that doesn't mean that doctor is saying "well I think this works and it's my opinion that it might work but I don't have any real evidence to back it up."

If mainstream opinion correlated even remotely with what you just said, I'd be singing a different tune. Unfortunately, it doesn't.

I have heard isolated statements from doctors that give a VERY toned down version of what you say. And I've heard statements from even more doctors saying it is not nearly that effective.

 

[Horn6721]

NJ
I only know of HCQ/z and remdesvir. One is decades old dirtt cheap and has been used successfully for thousands by reputable Docs all over the world
The other costs thousands and has so far not been used on as many.
If there are 2 that work Great

If you just step back and view the MSM coverage one can see the difference in coveragre of each drug and wonder why.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

If mainstream opinion correlated even remotely with what you just said, I'd be singing a different tune. Unfortunately, it doesn't.

I have heard isolated statements from doctors that give a VERY toned down version of what you say. And I've heard statements from even more doctors saying it is not nearly that effective.

Without going out of my way I've probably seen about a dozen doctors say its been very effective.

Take my post in its full context, not one selective paragraph. Unless you don't keep up with the mainstream media, Hydroxychloroquine is portrayed as a Trumpian death drug that hes making money on and that's why he's promoting it so much.

Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin as a Treatment of COVID-19: Results of an Open-Label Non-Randomized Clinical Trial - PubMed

None of this means there ultimately aren't better treatments but if you watch or read the majority of the mainstream news, you are a kook if you think hydroxychloroquine has any positive effect at all.

The issue is what the mainstream media feeds the masses and I can tell you I know a lot of intelligent people that think hydroxychloroquine is just Trump junk.

 

[Clean]

Practicing what he preaches. Trump revealed to reporters on Monday he’s taking hydroxychloroquine in an effort to prevent getting coronavirus, saying he’s been taking a pill every day for about a week and a half.

Trump reveals he's taking hydroxychloroquine in effort to prevent coronavirus symptoms

 

[Mr. Deez]

 

[Joe Fan]

Your argument would make sense if the choice was between HCL and nothing. But it isn't. The choice is between HCL and some other treatment.

My argument in that sentence was that the world would be better off if Tom Hanks had simply told the truth about him being treated with chloroquine. Are you really taking issue with this?

Sure, some patients might've been saved if their doctors had switched them from Treatment X to HCL. But other patients might've been killed by the very same switch. Without further study, we will never know.

You would be taken more serious as a poster if you drop this tendency you have of always creating a straw man so you can then make your point. For the umpteenth time, I never said patients should only be treated with chloroquine. If you really think that's true, the go find it. Prove it up. Otherwise, cut the crap.

We need to let the medical and scientific communities address this problem, not the political community.

Funny. For the last time, the chronology was --
Trump brought up HCL in the pressers. Did not make it policial. Just said "shows promise"
Your side pounced. Constantly ridiculing him about HCL
Trump's side responded by taking every instance of successful HCL treatment and shoving it back in y'alls' faces
Today, you would rather stick to "the science"

 

[Horn6721]

Oh Wow Clean
Haters heads will explode.

 

[Joe Fan]

Funny how that works

 

[LongestHorn]

 

[2003TexasGrad]

Wow? What an idiot.

 

[Garmel]

Is there any MSM narrative that you don't buy into? For the people who don't know the MSM/Twitter idiots without proof are saying that Trump is lying and is not taking HCQ. Btw, LH, are we going to have an election this fall?