Coronavirus

Bubba paradise on earth

EYTTCjqWAAAXhgf
 
dukesteer said:
On the hydroxychloroquine discussion, someone on another board posted this analogy:

“Imagine the United States was a cruise ship called the Titanic, and it hit an iceberg called Pandemic. Now imagine the lifeboats were a widely used successful treatment called hydroxychloroquine (HCQ).

Let's say the Captain had recently heard from a rival lifeboat manufacturer that his ship's lifeboats were inferior and could actually kill passengers instead of save them. This didn't make any sense because these lifeboats had been used for many years and were found to be versatile and effective.

Unfortunately, out of an abundance of caution, the Captain kept his lifeboats tied down to his doomed ship. It was reported that the Captain's last words were "better safe than sorryyyy.........glub....glub."
Click to expand...

This has been one of my points from the outset -- if you are prone in a hospital bed about to die from this virus and the doctors come in to tell you, "I am sorry we have tried everything on you but none of it is working. The only thing we have left is hydroxychloroquine."

Are you going to say, "No way! I would rather die than let Trump be right again!"

Well, I guess some liberals would
 
I have mentioned this before, it is very ominous to allow the City or State Government to control your fate AFTER you take this "test". I know of a family forced to stay inside their home for almost a month unable to work outside of the home or leave because one of them tested positive.

Sylvester Turner and Lina Hidalgo (Houston) have trained over 3,000 new hires to act as contact tracers and they will track down everyone who has contacted someone testing positive and force them to get tested and in to quarantine. How far can they take this? I know Gov. Abbot stopped Hidalgo from arresting people for not wearing a mask. But how many of our rights as citizens will be stripped from us without a vote?
 
Joe Fan said:
This has been one of my points from the outset -- if you are prone in a hospital bed about to die from this virus and the doctors come in to tell you, "I am sorry we have tried everything on you but none of it is working. The only thing we have left is hydroxychloroquine."

Are you going to say, "No way! I would rather die than let Trump be right again!"

Well, I guess some liberals would
Click to expand...

At a Zoom Q&A recently, the CEO of my local hospital said that they are participating in over 30 COVID-19 clinical trials, including several that involve hydroxychloroquine. He said that every patient is being offered one or more of these experimental treatments.

Someone asked if HCL shows promise, and he said yes, it seems to help some people make a sudden turnaround. (I think he said 20%, but I don’t recall for certain.) Someone else then made your point — why not give it to everyone? He gave two answers. First, other treatments show more promise. So the better question is “Why not give every patient the best treatment we know about so far?” — which would not be HCL. Second, giving all patients HCL would prevent the study of potentially better treatments. Until they find something that works more reliably, none of the marginally effective treatments can be allowed to crowd out the field.
 
NJlonghorn said:
At a Zoom Q&A recently, the CEO of my local hospital said that they are participating in over 30 COVID-19 clinical trials, including several that involve hydroxychloroquine. He said that every patient is being offered one or more of these experimental treatments.

Someone asked if HCL shows promise, and he said yes, it seems to help some people make a sudden turnaround. (I think he said 20%, but I don’t recall for certain.) Someone else then made your point — why not give it to everyone? He gave two answers. First, other treatments show more promise. So the better question is “Why not give every patient the best treatment we know about so far?” — which would not be HCL. Second, giving all patients HCL would prevent the study of potentially better treatments. Until they find something that works more reliably, none of the marginally effective treatments can be allowed to crowd out the field.
Click to expand...

I've never suggested that it be the sole treatment for this virus or anything else. If you are trying to say that this was my position here then you are wrong. My only position from the outset has been that it is idiotic to exclude chloroquine treatments for soley partisan political purposes. It's very simple. If it is ineffective, then don't use it. But if it is effective, then use it. And it has proven itself to be effective at least anecdotally. You guys only seem to want to use "science" when it is politically convenient.
 
OUBubba said:
In our setting we have plenty of testing availability. We don't have the PPE to perform mass testing.
Click to expand...
In Texas, positive tests results are now down to 5%. Korea, the gold standard, achieved 3%. WHO recommends 10% minimum to insure decent testing. Recall I said less than 5% should be the goal about 2 weeks ago. Now Trump haters are saying not enough people are taking the test.
 
Joe Fan said:
My only position from the outset has been that it is idiotic to exclude chloroquine treatments for soley partisan political purposes. It's very simple. If it is ineffective, then don't use it. But if it is effective, then use it. And it has proven itself to be effective at least anecdotally. You guys only seem to want to use "science" when it is politically convenient.
Click to expand...

I've understood this to be your position from the very start. You believe that doctors are withholding hydrocloroquine treatment for partisan political reasons. I don't. I believe that doctors are using HCL in some cases and not others, in a genuine effort to figure out what works.

I agree with part of your point. When a patient is on the verge of death, and we don't know what to do, we should try something -- even if it is unproven. But I don't agree that that "something" should always be (or include) HCL. In contrast, I prefer the approach that the medical community is taking -- try a variety of promising approaches under controlled conditions to figure out what works and what doesn't.

As I mentioned in my last post, HCL is just one of many treatments showing some level of promise. So let's suppose there are 10 experimental treatments, each of which is between 5% and 25% likely to work. Do you think we should give every patient all 10 of those treatments? Simultaneously, or in series? If in series, how long do you wait after giving one treatment before trying the next? What if there are 20 promising experimental treatments?

I can think of only two reasons to give every patient HCL. The first would be if we knew that we could improve patients' chances by adding HCL to whatever other treatment we are using. But that is not known at this time. It is just as possible that using HCL interferes with other, more promising treatments. We will never know if we don't continue experimenting in a controlled way.

The second plausible reason to give HCL to everyone -- and the reason I think you and your far-right brethren continue to push HCL so fervently -- is trying to prove President Trump right. That is just as partisan as not giving anyone HCL. The truly non-partisan approach is to continue to experiment until the medical community figures out what works best.

One final point. I support President Trump's actions to relax FDA rules on clinical trials. Those rules have always been unduly restrictive, and doubly so in the face of a rapidly-spreading disease. We have to be more nimble, and President Trump deserves credit for making that happen. Notably, he has made that happen for HCL and for numerous other experimental treatments. That is exactly the right approach.
 
NJlonghorn said:
...I can think of only two reasons to give every patient HCL. ...
Click to expand...

Dangit. I never said give everyone hydroxychloroquine!
I did suggest that, if it works, it is dumb not to use it simply because you are overcome with emotion (primarily the emotion of hatred). I provided information on multiple timley anecdotal studies showing its efficacy treating the coronavirus.
That's it
 
These people do not have a firm grip on reality
A "proven vaccine that is widely available" may not come for years or decades. Perhaps never. See SARS, AIDS/HIV, Malaria, Lyme Disease, West Nile Virus, Zika Virus, Chagas Disease, Elephantiasis, Hookworm, Respiratory Syncytial Virus
What do they think will become of us all in the meantime?

Phil Murphy is the Democrat Gov of New Jersey
 
Last edited:
Joe Fan said:
This has been one of my points from the outset -- if you are prone in a hospital bed about to die from this virus and the doctors come in to tell you, "I am sorry we have tried everything on you but none of it is working. The only thing we have left is hydroxychloroquine."

Are you going to say, "No way! I would rather die than let Trump be right again!"

Well, I guess some liberals would
Click to expand...
Anything that cant be highly monopolized and monotized by the government/FDA/HHS/CDC/bigpharma will always be demonized and never receive support
 
RainH2burntO said:
Anything that cant be highly monopolized and monotized by the government/FDA/HHS/bigpharma will always be demonized and never receive support
Click to expand...

That might be where the biggest opposition to chloroquine is coming from
Which, under these circumstances, makes it particularly disgusting
If we had an honest media, they would be looking into campaign donations or other "in-kind" donations and pairing them with public positions on this issue. But we dont. So it will only be done by individuals who will then be ignored and/or called names
 
Last edited:
Joe Fan said:
These people do not have a firm grip on reality
A "proven vaccine that is widely available" may not come for years or decades. Perhaps never. See SARS, AIDS/HIV, Malaria, Lyme Disease, West Nile Virus, Zika Virus, Chagas Disease, Elephantiasis, Hookworm, Respiratory Syncytial Virus
What do they think will become of us all in the meantime?

Phil Murphy is the Democrat Gov of New Jersey
Click to expand...

Better suited for office in La La Land
 
Joe Fan said:
That might be where the biggest opposition to chloroquine is coming from
Which, under these circumstances, makes it is particularly disgusting
If we had an honest media, they would be looking into campaign donations or other "in-kind" donations and pairing them with public positions on this issue. But we dont. So it will only be done by individuals who will then be ignored and/or called names
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that be cool?!?
 
RainH2burntO said:
Better suited for office in La La Land
Click to expand...

It could be a case of a Democrat doing what he is told -- to whit, keep the economy sucking and people dependent on Govt thru the election

After the election, I fully expect Phil Murphy to drop this demand of a "proven vaccine that is widely available" -- it will be like he never said the words or made the demand. It will be - "Time to move on/We have bigger issues now/That matter has been fully vetted" or some other such memorized catchphrase.
 
More from the Joisey Shore -- the popo came to the gym, made sure everyone knew they were in violation of Phil Murphy's rules, then they left, got a huge round of applause

 
Joe Fan said:
These people do not have a firm grip on reality
A "proven vaccine that is widely available" may not come for years or decades. Perhaps never. See SARS, AIDS/HIV, Malaria, Lyme Disease, West Nile Virus, Zika Virus, Chagas Disease, Elephantiasis, Hookworm, Respiratory Syncytial Virus
What do they think will become of us all in the meantime?

Phil Murphy is the Democrat Gov of New Jersey
Click to expand...


On this we can agree. Governor Murphy is being too restrictive on the reopening timeline. There are rumblings about the legislature stepping in, but I'm not optimistic.

The most likely Republican challenger for the 2021 election (Jack Ciattarelli) has been all over Governor Murphy about this and much more. As things stand right now, Ciattarelli will likely have my vote.
 
Joe Fan said:
But why is he doing this?
I suspect he is just following orders.
Click to expand...

I think he genuinely believes he is doing the right thing. I just disagree with him.

Notably, I'm able to disagree with him without assuming he is an idiot, or a puppet, or an evil monster, or whatever. Too many in our country have lost that ability.
 
NJlonghorn said:
I think he genuinely believes he is doing the right thing. I just disagree with him.

Notably, I'm able to disagree with him without assuming he is an idiot, or a puppet, or an evil monster, or whatever. Too many in our country have lost that ability.
Click to expand...

I suspect it is all coordinated for political impact - you will note that the re-open/dont open positions among governors falls primarily along political lines
 
Joe Fan said:
I did suggest that, if it works, it is dumb not to use it simply because you are overcome with emotion (primarily the emotion of hatred).
Click to expand...

And I replied that that is not what is happening. HCL is being tried as one of many potential treatments. There is no conspiracy to make sure HCL isn't used.

Joe Fan said:
I provided information on multiple timley anecdotal studies showing its efficacy treating the coronavirus.
Click to expand...

There is anecdotal information showing efficacy of many different treatments. The only thing that is unique about HCL is that President Trump touted it early on. There is no other reason to elevate it over other treatment options.

Joe Fan said:
That might be where the biggest opposition to chloroquine is coming from
Click to expand...

This presupposes that the use or nonuse of chloroquine is driven by some phantom "opposition to chloroquine". I don't think that is true, at least in the mainstream medical community. There certainly are loonies on the left who would rather see people die than see President Trump be right. And there are loonies on the right who don't care if liberals die so long as the disease doesn't spread to more conservative areas. None of those people matter when it comes to forming policy, because they are a distinct minority on both sides.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

NEW: Pro Sports Forums

Cowboys, Texans, Rangers, Astros, Mavs, Rockets, etc. Pro Longhorns. This is the place.

Pro Sports Forums

Recent Threads

Back
Top