Boyer' open letter to Kaepernick

ShAArk92 said:
cord cutters is all it is, JoeFan ... all it ever was. You know that, right?
:p
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national anthem protest is all it is, ShAArk92...all it ever was...

Said no one ever (except maybe JoeFan) just like nobody said what you said. Next strawman...WHHHHHHEEEEEEWWWW! <--- Me blowing that strawman down. :)
 
I'm tired of the NFL owners playing nice to these spoiled players. You put your foot down and tell these babies to pull their head out of their asses or hit the road. Quit bowing to them. The kneelers need the NFL a lot more than the NFL needs the kneelers. The NFL needs us fans much more than we need them. There is a pecking order and the idiot owners don't understand where the money comes from. Then there are idiots out there that try to defend why the rating are down which is amusing. Of course they also believe in socialism so why would they get what the pecking order should be.
 
NFL owners are morons for caving to this. Just made it monumentally easier to get Donald Sterling'd for doing/saying something more trivial.

They rewarded faux outrage by bribing the players to stop doing something that was already supposedly against the rules, which RG chose not to enforce.

What happens when the next AA is suspiciously shot by a cop on cam and the media treats it like an outrage epidemic?

It's going to happen sooner or later, just like a bunch of whites will meet the same fate between now and then.

Gonna be priceless when the majority of the players immediately react with mass anthem protests. And then fans collectively lose their sh*t even worse the next time around.

Pretty clear the NFL just double-downed the same way ESPN did. How's that working out for the worldwide leader in sports? :smh:
 
Seattle Husker said:
national anthem protest is all it is, ShAArk92...all it ever was...

Said no one ever (except maybe JoeFan) just like nobody said what you said. Next strawman...WHHHHHHEEEEEEWWWW! <--- Me blowing that strawman down. :)
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The SeattleHusker doeth protest too much, methinks!

:eek:
 
Last night in Dallas

DP7I7e4U8AErtwN.jpg
 
I would say there were other factors that contributed.

Dallas fans bailed in mass on playoff hopes after three brutal losses and no signs of life. One more loss and the season is guaranteed over.

Plus it was a Thursday night and people have work. Why go see a floundering team likely end their season that night with an early morning?

Then I realized that's all nonsense. Cowboys fans always show up strong when the team has ANY chance left of playoffs.

Jerry must be pissed.
 
ShAArk92 said:
The SeattleHusker doeth protest too much, methinks!

:eek:
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Not really, OUBubba and I have pointed out a number of contributing factors at this point and the Pro-Trump side (at least JoeFan) has been beating the drum that only reason is the anthem protest. When you put words in my mouth and claim they are mine, I'll point it out.
 
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Joe Fan said:
Last night in Dallas

DP7I7e4U8AErtwN.jpg
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That's the first play from scrimmage on a Thursday night game. Do you have a comparable image from mid-game? I didn't see the game so I have no idea what it looked like after everyone had a chance to get to the game and into their seats.
 
Seattle Husker said:
I have pointed out a number of contributing factors at this point and the Pro-Trump side
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yessir ... "put words" ... "protest" ... I think it's the same especially in this context.

And what does "pro-Trump" have to do with it? This started well before Trump "had a chance" (right?) to become POTUS, let alone the GOP nominee. I know, you want to blame him for the actions of others , but that's not the truth.
 
NJlonghorn said:
Do you have a comparable image from mid-game?
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a good friend of mine was there. I asked him (shared the photo) ... he said that was no later than middle of the 1Q. Didn't have a pict of his own, but that "the place was rockin"

IDK if that meant "capacity crowd" or that the sound system was booming. But in any case, whatever the participation, it's clear the kneelers have been pawns ... useful idiots ... promoting a false narrative and doing so while disrespecting The Anthem. Period.

I don't know Boyer from Adams Allfox, but would like to think he's an honorable person. Certainly has plenty of combat service ... even that doesn't earn him the authority to grant save/except on how to render respect.
 
NJlonghorn said:
That's the first play from scrimmage on a Thursday night game. Do you have a comparable image from mid-game? I didn't see the game so I have no idea what it looked like after everyone had a chance to get to the game and into their seats.
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It's way too empty at the start of the game to think it would be full or close to full by the start of the 2nd quarter.
 
Somehow this thread just reminded me of the global warming thread—we just don’t know what the drop would have been without the pernicious kneeling.
 
VYFan said:
we just don’t know what the drop would have been without the pernicious kneeling.
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It's true that sports in general, lead by ESPN, has become increasingly more about social issues than the game over the last decade/so ...

And that has probably resulted in the lessor audience than from previous years (say the mid 90s when the Cowboys were winning 3 of the last 4 Super Bowls) ... but it's ridiculous to suggest the "kneelers" haven't added a significant degree to this audience reduction.

... but here's the thing ...

The lion's share of the reduction ... the cause is the SAME THING: politics in sports. ... and not politics of making deals with Daddies for scholly/playing time/whatever ... this social justice deal. This particular social issue just happens to be based upon a lie and executed in outright disrespect.

The chin music about "we don't mean disrespect" may or may not be true, but they know better ... or SHOULD know better. We've only been teaching how to render respect for The Flag, for The Anthem ... for a handful of decades, now. There are even some non-color-guard/non-veterans who know the proper way to fold The Flag! ///sarc
 
Here is another article about declining NFL attendance, which some posters here apparently think is fake news
This one is the Baltimore perspective

It seems paradoxical: The Ravens, who have sold out every home game since they arrived in Baltimore in 1996, are advertising tickets for Sunday’s contest at M&T Bank Stadium.

But this is where the Ravens find themselves in 2017: Contemplating the prospect of empty seats, and appealing to fans to “Win Together. Purchase your tickets today!” even as the team is contending for what would be its first playoff berth since 2014.

Thousands of fans are trying to resell their tickets to the sold-out game Sunday against the Detroit Lions at 71,000-seat M&T Bank Stadium via Ticketmaster, the team’s official resale outlet, or StubHub. Seats were available this week in almost every section; an $80 ticket for an upper end zone seat could be had for as little as $29.

.... But the NFL is laboring across the board this season to maintain its fan base and minimize no-shows. It’s not just the Ravens. Television ratings are down league-wide and empty seats can be seen at many games.
* * *
“It’s not as intense as it used to be,” Harris said. “I remember it would be wall-to-wall people. You couldn’t even go to the bathroom. Now you can go to the bathroom whenever you want.”
* * *
ESPN’s national broadcast of Monday night’s Ravens game drew a 6.0 overnight rating, according to Nielsen, meaning an estimated 6 percent of households in metered markets tuned in. That’s tied for second worst all time,

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-ravens-tickets-20171130-story.html​
 
This morning on Fox (if I heard it right), said attendance at NFL games are at half it was in 2016. But it's not the kneeling. :smile1:
 
The long and short of it to me is this: I need some down time from my job and an ex-wife that is, let's just say, making my life a bit bumpy. Then you have the political obsession on the internet including a very aggressive relative of mine who is blocking family members (including my Mother who helped raised him and is a very nice person who would do anything for you; she just has old school opinions like an 81 year old might have) on Facebook over politics. I don't watch a football game for the activism and if that is what I'm going to get then I'll go elsewhere and I have. I'm just burnt out on it all.

This is not to say that I'm burying my head in the sand. Au contraire. I have read and re-read Dr. King's famous letter written in a Birmingham jail to some Southern White clergymen over and over. It is one of the most amazing things I've ever read. I admire him greatly and I get that what Kaepernick was doing is not breaking the law. It's not breaking an unjust law. It's not anything except doing what an American is allowed to do. Dr. King wrote of direct action against unjust laws. That's where it all gets murky. Kaepernick seems to be asking us to choose between the anthem or his interpretation of what is happening (the degree of it and our expected reaction to it). I think he made a huge tactical error by not giving white people (let's be honest here) a better option to participate in his concerns and desire to have a conversation about it. Well, there is a conversation but not the one he intended. And now there is a material number of former die-hard football fans who have checked out. That then becomes the next problem. An employee has harmed his employers cash flow, net income, brand etc by their own actions. ANY business has the right to ask that employee (at a minimum) to stop hurting the business. It's just common sense to me. If the employee refuses then that business is not bound to continue to bleed cash; at least not by the Constitution. So is there some sort of moral imperative where a business must be dragged into the matter and accept the losses?

I say no.
 
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I can only speak for myself but the anthem protests have affected my viewing habits. I am a pretty big football fan and used to watch several NFL games every week - at least in the background. My opinion of the NFL has degraded to the point that it has pushed me to stop watching all but the highest profile games. The NFL has been a declining product for years (if not decades) so it was not that much of a sacrifice.
 
You know its bad when I had to go log on to Bovada to see the last time I had even BET an NFL game...I didn't even have any Thanksgiving bets placed. And yes, Krappernick and the associated BS is a substantial part of my loss of interest...I look to the NFL for entertainment value, not political grandstanding.

And no, the NFL's loss of my eyeballs does not get to be blamed on cord-cutting since I still have my DISH account.
 
We have a core of guys that have been in a keeper fantasy football league for about 24 or 25 years. I'm not even keeping up with it for the first time ever in this league and I'm not the only one. I watched on Thanksgiving Day the Cowboys and that was because the family that hosted it had the game on TV. But I didn't watch very much of the second half. I'm not sure I'll ever go back because NOBODY puts their social issue over the America Anthem and our great Flag. What's crazy is they are protesting over the Anthem and Flag with issue that really isn't an issue. Until we have Robots policing, we will have human police officers shooting criminals or thought to be criminals for as long as there are criminals ...... which will be always.
 
Hat Tip, I35 ... well stated.

Again.

Ran across this late breaking edition of InfoWars just down the road at Texas State ... in "San Marcoes" (not san markus as it is pronounced properly)

These folks are just going completely irrational.

 
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I was trying to figure out why I 1) am bothered by the national anthem kneeling; and 2) am losing interest in the NFL (and other sports), and 3) whether there is a connection.

First of all, my First Amendment anti-government stripe leads me to resist any enforced mechanized display of patriotism. I strongly believe it is anyone's right not to stand for the anthem. Still, even in isolation, it annoys me. (Not NEARLY as much as illegal aliens displaying Mexican flags and cheering for Mexico to beat the USA in soccer, while in the USA--but I digress....)

Still, my new-found coldness for the NFL seems more than the annoyance I have always felt toward those who don't honor the anthem my whole life. I will admit that I already had a generally negative view toward BLM before all this, and that probably plays into this. (For example, if someone had sat for the anthem to protest the ongoing legalized abortion industry, would I be less annoyed?)

I have come to a new theory, though. Besides enjoying sports just as entertainment, I have been willing to support sports in part because it provides opportunities to many kids who likely would have no other equivalent opportunity to be cheered, receive free education, be recognized and, possibly, if they win the "lottery," to be a professional as a ball sport. Yes, many, probably most, of this category of kids are black. Now, though, the mantra is that all of these athletes, from college walk-ons to LeBron James, are mere "slaves" who should get more and more. So, yes, I feel there is a very ungrateful mood to athletes in this generation.

Moreover, it used to be that the heroes of sports represented, for me, heroes in general, who displayed character traits of selflessness, teamwork, honor, service, honesty, thankfulness, etc. Now, however, and this is what I think the anthem protests represent for me, the heroes are typically self-absorbed, whiny, ungrateful, unthankful, prima donnas seeking social media attention. Would you want to go into an actual shooting war with very many of these athletes?

So, this protest lands for me on a weak spot in my sports hobby, which is that I see my interest and support of the professional athletes as, rather than supporting an arena in which men are molded and heroism is developed and displayed, supporting a bunch of selfish social stars who have no appreciation for me, for their country, or for the men and women who died face down in the mud to support their First Amendment rights.
 
VYFan said:
Moreover, it used to be that the heroes of sports represented, for me, heroes in general, who displayed character traits of selflessness, teamwork, honor, service, honesty, thankfulness, etc. Now, however, and this is what I think the anthem protests represent for me, the heroes are typically self-absorbed, whiny, ungrateful, unthankful, prima donnas seeking social media attention. Would you want to go into an actual shooting war with very many of these athletes?
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Thanks for your perspective VYFan. I have the same disdain for the prima donnas in sports that you do. This is one factor in my decision to shut off the NBA as it doesn't get any worse than that, IMHO.

These guys that are kneeling are antithesis of what you are believing them to be based on my research. Keep in mind, Kaepernick is not representative of them all and he is a little bit mischaracterized too. Most of the kneelers are the selfless crowd that give often and considerable time to charitable organizations (Kaepernick included). Yes, some have larger than life personalities (i.e. Seattle's Michael Bennett) but don't mistake that for the "self-absorbed, whiny, ungrateful, unthankful prima donnas seeking social media attention".
 
VYFan said:
I was trying to figure out why I 1) am bothered by the national anthem kneeling; and 2) am losing interest in the NFL (and other sports), and 3) whether there is a connection.

First of all, my First Amendment anti-government stripe leads me to resist any enforced mechanized display of patriotism. I strongly believe it is anyone's right not to stand for the anthem. Still, even in isolation, it annoys me. (Not NEARLY as much as illegal aliens displaying Mexican flags and cheering for Mexico to beat the USA in soccer, while in the USA--but I digress....)

Still, my new-found coldness for the NFL seems more than the annoyance I have always felt toward those who don't honor the anthem my whole life. I will admit that I already had a generally negative view toward BLM before all this, and that probably plays into this. (For example, if someone had sat for the anthem to protest the ongoing legalized abortion industry, would I be less annoyed?)

I have come to a new theory, though. Besides enjoying sports just as entertainment, I have been willing to support sports in part because it provides opportunities to many kids who likely would have no other equivalent opportunity to be cheered, receive free education, be recognized and, possibly, if they win the "lottery," to be a professional as a ball sport. Yes, many, probably most, of this category of kids are black. Now, though, the mantra is that all of these athletes, from college walk-ons to LeBron James, are mere "slaves" who should get more and more. So, yes, I feel there is a very ungrateful mood to athletes in this generation.

Moreover, it used to be that the heroes of sports represented, for me, heroes in general, who displayed character traits of selflessness, teamwork, honor, service, honesty, thankfulness, etc. Now, however, and this is what I think the anthem protests represent for me, the heroes are typically self-absorbed, whiny, ungrateful, unthankful, prima donnas seeking social media attention. Would you want to go into an actual shooting war with very many of these athletes?

So, this protest lands for me on a weak spot in my sports hobby, which is that I see my interest and support of the professional athletes as, rather than supporting an arena in which men are molded and heroism is developed and displayed, supporting a bunch of selfish social stars who have no appreciation for me, for their country, or for the men and women who died face down in the mud to support their First Amendment rights.
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Interesting viewpoint. I must admit that I have been struggling to understand why people care whether athletes stand during the national anthem. They aren't stealing the microphone from the performer and making their own speech. They are simply refusing to say something (whether verbally or though conduct) that they don't want to say. The USA isn't a dictatorship, where everyone has to share the same opinions and participate in the same rituals. If they want to sit or kneel, I'm perfectly content to just ignore them.

Your answer to this seems to be that you view star athletes as role models / heroes, and you find it harder to look up to them if they espouse positions you disagree with. I can respect that. I don't agree with it, but at least it's rational in a way that much of what I've been hearing is not.

The reason I don't agree with you is that I don't see pro athletes as role models or heroes. Yes, participating in any competitive endeavor can "mold men", but at the pro level, athletes are just entertainers. I'll pay to watch them play if they put a good product on the field or court, but I don't care about their politics or philosophy and I certainly don't look up to them.
 
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