3 Cheers for our good ally Israel! Est. 1200 BC

[mchammer]

 

[Monahorns]

I am not familiar with that Protocol
Perhaps you can provide credible clarificatiion

Not a source you will like but quotes an Israeli ex-Lieutenant Colonel:
Israel army accused of killing its citizens by implementing Hannibal Protocol during Hamas attack on October 7

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

So when one group of Gazans captures a hostage and returns him to Hamas that justifies killing all Gazans. That is the opposite of justice. That is basically Progressive social justice like the Democrats are inflicting on us in the US.

No Gazans were told to leave Gaza. They were told to move from the North to the South Gaza or vice versa. Then Israel bombed the refugee camp that they told the Gazans to go because MAYBE there was a a guy from Hamas in there.

If you pursue "full retaliation and obliteration" to those holding hostages what happens to the hostages? Isn't killing hostages worse than capturing and holding hostages? None of this sounds logical or rational.

Cook babies, rape women, kill innocent people, turn in a jew to hamas... yeah, obliterate hamas. Israel made the effort to evacuate civilians. I can't ask for more.

Hamas kidnapped a 10 month old baby. Why? Is he an "occupier" or something? Evil like that has to be destroyed.

 

[mchammer]

Cook babies, rape women, kill innocent people, turn in a jew to hamas... yeah, obliterate hamas. Israel made the effort to evacuate civilians. I can't ask for more.

Hamas kidnapped a 10 month old baby. Why? Is he an "occupier" or something? Evil like that has to be destroyed.

Confirmation bias is a helluva drug.

 

[mchammer]

 

[mchammer]

 

[Monahorns]

Cook babies, rape women, kill innocent people, turn in a jew to hamas... yeah, obliterate hamas. Israel made the effort to evacuate civilians. I can't ask for more.

Hamas kidnapped a 10 month old baby. Why? Is he an "occupier" or something? Evil like that has to be destroyed.

You are still conflating criminals with non-criminals. I guess if one person in a race (or a family, or a city, or a nation) is guilty of something, they are all guilty. It is a collectivist mind set which is the mind set in the 20th century that killed 100s of millions of people. It is the mind set that killed millions of Jews. Now it looks like the vast majority of humans has the same mind set.

 

[Monahorns]

Ironically, Henry Hazlitt was an anti-war libertarian. He rejected Marxism and would have rejected terrorism. But he also rejected collective guilt too.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

You are still conflating criminals with non-criminals. I guess if one person in a race (or a family, or a city, or a nation) is guilty of something, they are all guilty. It is a collectivist mind set which is the mind set in the 20th century that killed 100s of millions of people. It is the mind set that killed millions of Jews. Now it looks like the vast majority of humans has the same mind set.

I have a clear conscience about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Israelis should also do the right thing. Eliminate evil

 

[Chop]

Still not released by Gazan terrorist group Hamas:
(Kfir Bibas was abducted by Hamas militants from his home in Israel on October 7.)

This 10-month old is among the children still held captive or missing in Gaza | CNN

 

[Chop]

If you call good evil, and evil good...

...there is something wrong with you.

 

[guy4321]

Why is a city council bothering with a a topic it has no power over?

If you call good evil, and evil good...

...there is something wrong with you.

They have a term for that - Democrat.

 

[Monahorns]

I have a clear conscience about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Israelis should also do the right thing. Eliminate evil

Then just admit that you don't care about Palestinians. It isn't that they have done this or that you just don't see them as human. Or you see Israelis as super-human.

 

[Monahorns]

If you call good evil, and evil good...

...there is something wrong with you.

Exactly. Advocating for the killing of innocents is wrong, whether Jew or Palestinian. Wrong acts are wrong acts regardless of who is doing it. This follows the Biblical directive of impartiality.

James 2

My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism.2 For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes,3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, “You sit here in a good place,” and you say to the poor man, “You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,”4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?5 Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?7 Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called?

My stance also follows the Biblical directive of individual justice, the opposite of collective guilt which is the viewpoint of BLM, Cultural Marxism, and the US federal government. Our society was built on the philosophy of individualism, in part, which is being eroded. There is also a connection between individual justice and freedom, then between freedom and prosperity. The article explains some of the links between those things.

Discover the Origins of Freedom and How to Attain it | Libertarian Christian Institute

 

[Horn6721]

Mona??
Did you read the link you provided in post 813? Read it again.
It did not say what you are trying to say it said.

 

[Monahorns]

Mona??
Did you read the link you provided in post 813? Read it again.
It did not say what you are trying to say it said.

What did you understand it to say? Then I can share how I understand it.

 

[Monahorns]

Here is an article describing the US judicial system's slide from operating on individual justice and objective evidence to one now which operates on collective guilt and power politics (i.e. subjectivism). It is a rot which infects all of the US federal government that I can see, both blue and red teams, and has relevance to the US government's stance on Israel/Palestine. Read what Reagan said in the past to see the change.

Chauvin, Houston, and Strange Racial Justice - Chronicles

 

[Horn6721]

Mona
What I read from your link in post 813 is an article totally different from your headline. The article quotes an Israeli Lt. Col with no direct involvement or knowledge speculating on what MIGHT have happened. This Lt. Col who was not there said it "seemed ,appeared, was a possibility" Then admitted it was 'UNKNOWN'
How in the world can you actually use that as a source for your assertion?

 

[Horn6721]

Mona
BTW if it happened, that Israeli forces unknowinly killed some Israeli citizens during the action to kill Hamas who was knowingly murdering innocent Israeli women and children
What is your point?

 

[Chop]

This sort of political grandstanding is a meaningless waste of time and city resources.

The Oakland, California city council has no more leverage over Israel than they have over Bhutan or Paraguay.

 

[Chop]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas...ideos-of-oct-7-atrocities-family-member-says/

Hamas forced hostage kids to watch videos of Oct. 7 atrocities.

We're dealing with evil here in Hamas/Gaza. This is not the usual situation where everyone is wearing hats of differing shades of grey.

 

[Monahorns]

Mona
What I read from your link in post 813 is an article totally different from your headline. The article quotes an Israeli Lt. Col with no direct involvement or knowledge speculating on what MIGHT have happened. This Lt. Col who was not there said it "seemed ,appeared, was a possibility" Then admitted it was 'UNKNOWN'
How in the world can you actually use that as a source for your assertion?

My purpose of using that article was to define what the Hannibal Protocol is. Imbedded in it there is a description of what it is. The IDF has been documented in using it and came under close scrutiny 10 years ago. They said they stopped using it.

The Lt Col was a part of the IDF until Oct 31, but I agree he wasn't an eye witness. Still, he has many years of military service, is most likely familiar with the protocol, and commenting on how the real reports look to him. It is commentary on legitimate reports not eye witness testimony. If it seemed like that is what I communicated, then I am sorry that wasn't my intention.

It is very difficult to determine what is true and propaganda in this situation. In fact some propaganda is true. Both sides are going to use it and we as neutral observers need to listen to both sides and see if we can triangulate to separate truth from pure propaganda.

The public will never receive a statement from the IDF that they are using the Hannibal Protocol. But we can look at incidents and make judgments. It looks likely that the IDF did use it or did things that can easily confused as it. The story of the helicopters firing on the Israeli festival attendees is just one story out of several. There have also been stories of IDF tanks firing on Israeli homes in which Hamas had taken hostages.

I think we need to at least listen to them and compare with more clearly known facts. Both sides are claiming that only the other side is doing wrong and that they are justified in whatever they do. Such extreme positions don't lend themselves to credence. No human or group of humans is ever going to be without sin.

 

[Monahorns]

Mona
BTW if it happened, that Israeli forces unknowinly killed some Israeli citizens during the action to kill Hamas who was knowingly murdering innocent Israeli women and children
What is your point?

The point is that Israel was aware, most likely. They knew that the dance festival contained thousands of Israeli citizens. Indiscriminately shooting into the crowds and blowing up cars was going to kill Israelis without fail. If they claim in that circumstance to not know then they aren't intelligent enough to fly helicopters.

Even if they really didn't know, it shows a lack of respect for the lives of their own civilians. That should be their one and only concern, protect the lives of Israeli citizens even at the cost of their own lives.

 

[Monahorns]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas...ideos-of-oct-7-atrocities-family-member-says/

Hamas forced hostage kids to watch videos of Oct. 7 atrocities.

We're dealing with evil here in Hamas/Gaza. This is not the usual situation where everyone is wearing hats of differing shades of grey.

Hamas is definitely evil. They should be brought to justice. But you continue to paint all Gazans with the same collective guilt and Israelis with collective righteousness.

 

[Chop]

Here's you a new interview question to verify if an employment candidate's values line up:

"This one is a simple yes or no question: Do you believe in the Nation of Israel's right to exist?"

 

[Horn6721]

Mona
We agree. Hamas has is and will continue to murder innocent Israeli citizens.
Israel has a right to stop Hamas, in the name of justice and to protect its' citizens.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I haven't followed this thread daily. Has anyone actually said murdering Palestinian civilians should be a primary goal of the Israelis as Monahorns seems to suggest someone has?

 

[ViperHorn]

This sort of political grandstanding is a meaningless waste of time and city resources.

The Oakland, California city council has no more leverage over Israel than they have over Bhutan or Paraguay.

or even Alameda County.

 

[guy4321]

This sort of political grandstanding is a meaningless waste of time and city resources.

The Oakland, California city council has no more leverage over Israel than they have over Bhutan or Paraguay.

or even Alameda County.

They can't even keep a sports team. How are they going to get Israel and Hamas into a ceasefire?

 

[mchammer]