2024 GOP Primary

[Mr. Deez]

What a shock.

 

[Chop]

I lived a few miles from New Hampshire 3 years ago. They are mad about the liberal’s attempts moving the South Carolina primary date.

If there's one place liberals truly love, it's South Carolina.

 

[mchammer]

 

[mchammer]

At least in recent polls, Haley is far ahead of Desantis in NH. In fact, Christie was ahead of Desantis, and he dropped out. Most of his supporters (who were the surviving remnants of the Northeastern moderate Republicans) will go to Haley. He's not even winning in Florida.

I hate to say it, but his window is closed for '24.

Note Trump only got 51% in a Trump leaning state. If Haley and DeSantis stay in it through March, I doubt Trump is above 50%. Strategically, the best possible option for GOP is to make the final decision as late as possible, such as the convention in August.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

Yes. All of them that support him over Desantis in the primary.



Look at his fiscal record. It is atrocious and was before COVID. Speaking of COVID, how'd you like Anthony Fauci, whom Trump gave a presidential commendation? Look at some of his statements in the last year on trans issues and abortion. He has been all over the map.

And then look at Desantis and his record. It is more conservative all the way around, and it is productive. In terms of actually getting things done, he has taken on the Left harder than any political figure in my lifetime, but he doesn't ****-talk or make fun of anybody's wife, so he's a cuck.

Absolutely true

 

[Mr. Deez]

Note Trump only got 51% in a Trump leaning state. If Haley and DeSantis stay in it through March, I doubt Trump is above 50%. Strategically, the best possible option for GOP is to make the final decision as late as possible, such as the convention in August.

If Trump was doing much worse in other states, I would agree, but that isn't the case. With Christie out, Haley could at least make it a race in New Hampshire, but she's still likely to lose, and that's probably where he's weakest. He's 29 points ahead in South Carolina, where Haley should be strong. Trump is up by about 40 points in Florida, where Desantis should be strong.

Barring some major catastrophe like Trump having a major health scare, this race is over. You know that I, of all people, hate admitting that more than anyone, but the truth is what it is.

 

[HalRex]

It’ll be turn out the lights the party’s over by the end of March.

 

[LonghornCatholic]

 

[Chop]

I don't see anyone overtaking Trump on the GOP side. But I've been wrong before.

 

[Chop]

DeSantis is a rather unlikeable character. Now of the 3, he's the actual right wing conservative. Sort of like Ted Cruz. A right wing conservative with low charisma (although Cruz has improved quite a bit on that front). Haley's a corporatist, and Trump's a populist and opportunist. Trump seems to have an inate feel for the pulse of a huge chunk of the people--in a way we haven't seen at least since Reagan.

Haley seems like a corporate PR spokesperson. She spouts a bunch of rehearsed generic talking points. She appears to have little ability to ad-lib and think on her feet. If it ever comes down to it, Trump would all but annihilate her in a debate.

 

[Mr. Deez]

It’ll be turn out the lights the party’s over by the end of March.

It's over now, but everyone will know it's over the day after Super Tuesday if they don't figure it out after New Hampshire and South Carolina.

 

[Mr. Deez]

DeSantis is a rather unlikeable character. Now of the 3, he's the actual right wing conservative. Sort of like Ted Cruz. A right wing conservative with low charisma (although Cruz has improved quite a bit on that front). Haley's a corporatist, and Trump's a populist and opportunist. Trump seems to have an inate feel for the pulse of a huge chunk of the people--in a way we haven't seen at least since Reagan.

Haley seems like a corporate PR spokesperson. She spouts a bunch of rehearsed generic talking points. She appears to have little ability to ad-lib and think on her feet. If it ever comes down to it, Trump would all but annihilate her in a debate.

Desantis's appeal isn't likeability. It's competence. He gets good things done. He knows the role of his office and does it well. It's how a hardcore conservative gets reelected overwhelmingly after barely winning the first time. Everyone knows he's good at his job.

I don't think he's like Cruz. Cruz actually has charisma. The problem is that Cruz's charisma seems overstated, contrived, and self-righteous. And unlike Desantis, Cruz isn't a man of accomplishment. He doesn't get things done. He stirs up **** and gets himself lots of conservative media attention. He's MTG or Lauren Boebert with more brains and better judgment. He can make a coherent argument and knows not to fondle a strange man's nuts in a theater.

Trump is a personality cult at this point. People know he pisses off the left by saying a bunch of ****, and they don't care about much else. It doesn't matter that he isn't very good at the job, isn't very conservative, and gets little done.

Haley is pretty much what you describe - a PR spokesman and an advocate of traditional Republican corporate interests. She'll push for deregulation, cutting capital gains taxes, and boosting defense spending (especially for procurement, which enriches defense contractors). She won't be a trainwreck on social issues and the border, but she'll do as little as possible.

 

[Chop]

Big talk from DeSantis:

 

[Mr. Deez]

Big talk from DeSantis:

He just looks pitiful at this point. And again, I hate admitting that and hate seeing that. He's better than Haley and much better than Trump, but he never chose a lane. He chose "Trump-lite," and that just wasn't going to cut it. Nikki Haley grabbed the traditional GOP vote, and Trump got the populist vote.

 

[Garmel]

Trump is a personality cult at this point. People know he pisses off the left by saying a bunch of ****, and they don't care about much else. It doesn't matter that he isn't very good at the job, isn't very conservative, and gets little done.

Trump is definitely a personality cult but the other things you say here aren't correct. Yeah, he spent too much but so did Reagan. We had the best foreign policy and before Covid had the best economy of our lifetime.

 

[Horn6721]

Mr D
All due respect but you saying Trump supporters don't care about much else but Trump's personality is the biggest pile of dog poo.
Maybe because you weren't living here and didn't need a good economy but people including all minority groups benefited during Trump admin.
The Trump supporters I know like that he got NATO nations to start to pay up
Don't you?
Trump supporters like that we became energy independent and lower gas prices
Don't you?
Trump supporters like that he filled the SPR
Don't you?
Trump tax cuts helped nearly everyone yet income to fed government increased. Trump supporters like that
Don't you?
Trump made great strides in securing our border which benefited everyone . Trump supporters like that .
Don't you?
Trump supporters like that he got rid of many duplicate onerous regulations which reduced biz costs.
Don't you?
Etc etc etc

It occurs to me that many of Trumps accomplishments benefited people here who work in our economy and are dependent on it being good
. You are in an unique sitation not dependent on the economy being good to get a paycheck
It is understandable your view is different.
That said NO Trumo supporter I know ignores his flaws. There are many.
All Trump supporters I know knows he made many mistakes.
Of course you can denigrate supporters all you want but you can't change facts.

 

[mchammer]

 

[Monahorns]

Democracy encourages personality cults though, right?

 

[Chop]

Regardless of whether, or not, I support him, Trump must be allowed to run and be on the ballot. I sense BIG, BIG trouble in this Country if he's kicked off the ballots in any but the most iron-clad Democratic states (which wouldn't vote for Trump anyway).

 

[mchammer]

 

[mchammer]

 

[Mr. Deez]

Trump is definitely a personality cult but the other things you say here aren't correct. Yeah, he spent too much but so did Reagan. We had the best foreign policy and before Covid had the best economy of our lifetime.

Mr D
All due respect but you saying Trump supporters don't care about much else but Trump's personality is the biggest pile of dog poo.
Maybe because you weren't living here and didn't need a good economy but people including all minority groups benefited during Trump admin.
The Trump supporters I know like that he got NATO nations to start to pay up
Don't you?
Trump supporters like that we became energy independent and lower gas prices
Don't you?
Trump supporters like that he filled the SPR
Don't you?
Trump tax cuts helped nearly everyone yet income to fed government increased. Trump supporters like that
Don't you?
Trump made great strides in securing our border which benefited everyone . Trump supporters like that .
Don't you?
Trump supporters like that he got rid of many duplicate onerous regulations which reduced biz costs.
Don't you?
Etc etc etc

It occurs to me that many of Trumps accomplishments benefited people here who work in our economy and are dependent on it being good
. You are in an unique sitation not dependent on the economy being good to get a paycheck
It is understandable your view is different.
That said NO Trumo supporter I know ignores his flaws. There are many.
All Trump supporters I know knows he made many mistakes.
Of course you can denigrate supporters all you want but you can't change facts.

I'm not talking about people willing to vote for Trump over Biden. I understand that, and those voters are overlooking the downsides for better policy. I'm talking about those voting for Trump over Desantis.

Here's the way I look at it. Trump has his merits on many of the things that Horn6721 points out, and I followed things closely enough to have seen them. (I even saw them in Germany. The boosts in defense posture was good for the area in which I lived and good for the US, Germany, and all of NATO.) However, he has some major flaws.

Desantis offers all of the merits that Trump does plus more merits that Trump doesn't offer (takes on the woke where it matters, more fiscally responsible, etc.) and has far fewer abs less destructive flaws (doesn't bang porn actresses, doesn't grab ******* and brag about it, doesn't tweet while sitting on the toilet, doesn't insult people's wives, doesn't keep classified docs next to the crapper, actually has conservative principles so he knows not to turn the country over to health bureaucrats, etc).

So why vote for Trump? It's because they value the style more than the substance. Call it an insult, but I don't see how it can be denied.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Democracy encourages personality cults though, right?

It does, but dictatorships (whether communist is fascist) tend to lead to them more often.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Regardless of whether, or not, I support him, Trump must be allowed to run and be on the ballot. I sense BIG, BIG trouble in this Country if he's kicked off the ballots in any but the most iron-clad Democratic states (which wouldn't vote for Trump anyway).

I think it encourages and provokes violence and civil war even if done in solid blue states. The ballot is supposed to trump the bullet, but if you take the ballot away, the bullet becomes the only option.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

Don't take it as an insult. It's the truth.

You defend Republicans against any and every slight.
You defend Trump the same way.

I would have thought you would be proud to stand up and own that.

remember, @Horn6721 , when I posted this and you were not terribly happy with me? Well, the shoe continues to fit.

 

[Horn6721]

Mr D
? ? Substance?? I list just a few things of Substance Trump actually did and you even agreed he improved thing for our defense which benefited the US and other nations. Surely You would consider that of Substance.
Which one of the things I listed do You not consider to be of substance?

The other stuff? Come on D You are better than that.Tweeting on the toilet? When?
Boxes of docs in a first floor toilet?
You do know Trump did NOT shut down the country, right? He left it up to each state. DeSantis did shut down Florida.
LOL You are channeling your inner Rachel Maddow

 

[Mr. Deez]

Mr D
? ? Substance?? I list just a few things of Substance Trump actually did and you even agreed he improved thing for our defense which benefited the US and other nations. Surely You would consider that of Substance.
Which one of the things I listed do You not consider to be of substance?

I didn't say they weren't substance. What I'm saying is that they aren't reasons to vote for him over Desantis, because Desantis brings that same agenda plus more.

You do know Trump did NOT shut down the country, right? He left it up to each state. DeSantis did shut down Florida.
LOL You are channeling your inner Rachel Maddow

You're channeling your inner Laura Loomer.

FL locked down like virtually everybody did - when nothing was known about COVID. It was one of the first to reopen, and Trump attacked Desantis and Brian Kemp for doing so. Trump didn't impose a national lockdown because he didn't have the power to, but he basically deferred to Fauci on recommendations. He eventually came around on lockdowns, but he was much slower than Desantis was on them.

 

[Horn6721]

Fair enough. We see things differently.
I like DeSantis.
I just want someone who has shown he can walk his talk
to the betterment of our country.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Fair enough. We see things differently.
I like DeSantis.
I just want someone who has shown he can walk his talk
to the betterment of our country.

But Desantis did walk the talk. He didn't just trash talk or sign a few EOs, though he did a little of that line shitcanning DAs who don't do their jobs. That's relatively easy. He actually defunded DEI in his state and shut it down through legislation (meaning it can't just be undone with the stroke of a pen like most of Trump's accomplishments). He expanded school choice. He got shut down the freaks and perverts taking their hobbies and fetishes into classrooms and libraries. Nobody had ever done anything like that before. It's very big stuff, and none of it is easy to do.

And if you care about spending or the debt, Trump is a trainwreck and was before COVID. Remember, on fiscal policy, Trump shifted us to to the left, not the right. He was a bigger fiscal liberal than Obama was.

So if you want to vote for him over Biden, fair enough. But voting for him over Desantis simply doesn't make any sense from a policy standpoint.

 

[horninchicago]

But Desantis did walk the talk. He didn't just trash talk or sign a few EOs, though he did a little of that line shitcanning DAs who don't do their jobs. That's relatively easy. He actually defunded DEI in his state and shut it down through legislation (meaning it can't just be undone with the stroke of a pen like most of Trump's accomplishments). He expanded school choice. He got shut down the freaks and perverts taking their hobbies and fetishes into classrooms and libraries. Nobody had ever done anything like that before. It's very big stuff, and none of it is easy to do.

And if you care about spending or the debt, Trump is a trainwreck and was before COVID. Remember, on fiscal policy, Trump shifted us to to the left, not the right. He was a bigger fiscal liberal than Obama was.

So if you want to vote for him over Biden, fair enough. But voting for him over Desantis simply doesn't make any sense from a policy standpoint.

Do you think Desantis or any other (R) president would have gotten actual legislation passed with that congress? The one that help up countless appointments and allowed the Kavanaugh disaster as well as everything else that occurred thoise 4 years. I think what Desantis was able to accomplish in FL doesn't compare given the vast differences in legislatures. All that said, I like both and would be happy with either vs. ANY democrat libtard on the planet.