2024 GOP Primary

Mr. Deez said:
I'm sure you despise this guy because he's a neocon, but I think he's right about this.

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When I read NRO I didn't read him that much. I found myself starting one and skipping through it. He didn't say much that I disagreed with or agreed with. He griped about stuff that didn't resonate with me.

I have to say the same thing about this twitter thread. I'm not sure what he is talking about. It sounds like he is talking out of both sides of his mouth that DeSantis should have gone for it and he was always going to lose. He needed to attack the frontrunner but he didn't so he was going to lose. But DeSantis has explained how he is the better candidate.

It sounds like he is agreeing with my original point. But who knows.
 
Monahorns said:
When I read NRO I didn't read him that much. I found myself starting one and skipping through it. He didn't say much that I disagreed with or agreed with. He griped about stuff that didn't resonate with me.

I have to say the same thing about this twitter thread. I'm not sure what he is talking about. It sounds like he is talking out of both sides of his mouth that DeSantis should have gone for it and he was always going to lose. He needed to attack the frontrunner but he didn't so he was going to lose. But DeSantis has explained how he is the better candidate.

It sounds like he is agreeing with my original point. But who knows.
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He's saying that Desantis was right to run but not if he wasn't going to attack the frontrunner. That was never going to be an effective strategy.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Crock, I see very little evidence of either party being interested in following governing traditions, and I haven't seeen an independent attorney general in my adult life. Janet Reno was very partisan. John Ashcroft was less so but still pretty partisan. Alberto Gonzales might have been even more partisan than Reno. Michael Mukasey wasn't bad, but he wasn't AG for very long. Eric Holder, Loretta Lynch, and Merrick Garland are probably the most partisan AGs at least in my lifetime. Frankly, Jeff Sessions and William Barr were probably some of the fairer and least partisan AGs of the last few decades. (Of course, you'll notice that Trump hated both of them for their lack of partisanship.)
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Sessions and Barr were hard right conservative partisans. They had integrity though. Gonzales ... his legacy took him to Texas Tech...
 
Crockett said:
Sessions and Barr were hard right conservative partisans. They had integrity though. Gonzales ... his legacy took him to Texas Tech...
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They weren't any more conservative than Democratic AGs have been liberal. Furthermore, if the AG is doing his job (enforcing the law consistently), then his or her politics really don't matter. Same is true of a judge. Integrity is more important than politics. They had it. Most of their counterparts (including some Republicans like Gonzales) did not.
 
Mr. Deez said:
He's saying that Desantis was right to run but not if he wasn't going to attack the frontrunner. That was never going to be an effective strategy.
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Hasn't he attacked Trump though? That is what confused me. He doesn't make a real point.
 
Monahorns said:
Hasn't he attacked Trump though? That is what confused me. He doesn't make a real point.
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Not very much, no. He has started to in the last few weeks, but most of the campaign, he has been reluctant to directly attack Trump. Of course, Trump has been taking a piss on his face since Day 1.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Not very much, no. He has started to in the last few weeks, but most of the campaign, he has been reluctant to directly attack Trump. Of course, Trump has been taking a piss on his face since Day 1.
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I've watched multiple videos of him criticizing Trump. But to your point maybe he started late and hasn't done enough. He has been more vocal at town halls and other venues. He hasn't said so much during the debates.
 
Monahorns said:
I've watched multiple videos of him criticizing Trump. But to your point maybe he started late and hasn't done enough. He has been more vocal at town halls and other venues. He hasn't said so much during the debates.
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He's doing it some now, but to take on someone that far ahead, he needs to be your focus. The ocassional slap isn't going to cut it. Too much focus on Nikki Haley, etc. Even if he got every voter she had, it wouldn't be enough.
 
Mr. Deez said:
He's doing it some now, but to take on someone that far ahead, he needs to be your focus. The ocassional slap isn't going to cut it. Too much focus on Nikki Haley, etc. Even if he got every voter she had, it wouldn't be enough.
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I'm just not sure attacking Trump is going to win him the nomination. Trump is still very popular whether he should have been or not. That's why I think it was a mistake. Plus, I think it would be a much more substantial benefit for America if he worked with other red state governors to do what he did in Florida. I much rather want a DeSantis movement of governors using power to make states more conservative and secure against the federal government than him as a President, at least in 2024.
 
Monahorns said:
I'm just not sure attacking Trump is going to win him the nomination. Trump is still very popular whether he should have been or not. That's why I think it was a mistake.
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You may be right. The primary electorate may not have been open to choosing anyone ahead of Trump, regardless of electability, policy success, character, etc. However, trying to run as a more conventional version of Trump and trying to be soft on his vulnerabilities certainly wasn't going to cut it.

I think he assumed a few things that simply didn't turn out for him. First, he thought the primary electorate would be more pissed off about Covid and inflation. They clearly are not, and to the extent they are, they direct the blame entirely at Biden, whether that's fair or not.

Second, he thought they would give him more credit for directly taking on wokeness like it has never been taken on before. They may like what he did, but they don't prioritize it anywhere near as highly as he expected.

Third, I don't think he expected the media and Democrats to help Trump win the nomination as much as they have. For the last year, they've pretty much done everything they can to help him win it. It's framed as attacks on him, but it's entirely on fronts that help him in the primary. They've even done so at Biden's peril. For example, they could be talking about the big inflationary policies that Trump pushed for, and they aren't doing that.

Monahorns said:
Plus, I think it would be a much more substantial benefit for America if he worked with other red state governors to do what he did in Florida. I much rather want a DeSantis movement of governors using power to make states more conservative and secure against the federal government than him as a President, at least in 2024.
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I suspect he will do that. It's not too late by any means, because even if the primary electorate doesn't give a crap, other governors can look at what he did in Florida (turning it from purple to red) and emulate it back home. And who knows? Maybe primary voters will care about policy again in '28, unless of course Trump runs again.
 
"First, he thought the primary electorate would be more pissed off about Covid and inflation. They clearly are not, and to the extent they are they direct the blame entirely at Biden, whether that's fair or not."
Oh the voters know to blame Biden, even many Demx
And it is very fair
 
Horn6721 said:
"First, he thought the primary electorate would be more pissed off about Covid and inflation. They clearly are not, and to the extent they are they direct the blame entirely at Biden, whether that's fair or not."
Oh the voters know to blame Biden, even many Demx
And it is very fair
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It's fair to blame Biden, but it isn't fair to only blame Biden. If Trump had gotten reelected, we still would have gotten high inflation, because the groundwork had already been laid. When it comes to money and spending, their policies were very similar, especially if we look at what actually became law.

Blaming only Biden would be like giving George H.W. Bush all of the credit for winning the Cold War because the Soviet Union fell while he was in the White House and giving Reagan none.
 
Right or wrong since Biden IS the POTUS he is the one who gets the blame. Many of his policies made inflation worse and unless reversed will cause harm going forward
 
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Horn6721 said:
Right ir wrong since Biden IS the POTUS he is the one who gets the blame. Many of his policies made inflation worse and unless reversed will cause harm going forward
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Politically, that's often true. However, as primary voters, we're supposed to be smarter than that. We should be able to look at policy and get some idea what causes inflation rather than just assuming based on who's in office once the inflation is noticeable and reported. That means we SHOULD be able to look at Trump's fiscal policies, see that they're pretty similar to Biden's (again, at least of what became law) and see why we should be looking for a different option - at least if we don't like inflation.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Politically, that's often true. However, as primary voters, we're supposed to be smarter than that. We should be able to look at policy and get some idea what causes inflation rather than just assuming based on who's in office once the inflation is noticeable and reported. That means we SHOULD be able to look at Trump's fiscal policies, see that they're pretty similar to Biden's (again, at least of what became law) and see why we should be looking for a different option - at least if we don't like inflation.
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Trump railed against Thomas Massie voting against the CARES Act. Massie was the only rep to vote against it. Trump called for the RNC to kick him out of the party. I would rather have Trump than Biden. But both guys are not what we need. Maybe Trump is if he goes on a revenge rampage, and fires and jails a bunch of Democrats. He also needs to get majorities in the House and Senate to enact laws against ESG and DEI stuff. It is less likely he will do that though.
 
Horn6721 said:
Many of his policies made inflation worse and unless reversed will cause harm going forward
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Exactly, 6721. During the pandemic supply lines were seriously impacted, thus many goods were not available in quantity sufficient to meet demand - so, surprise, surprise, prices went up (Econ 101). With ample money chasing scarce goods and driving prices up, what did Biden do? He sent out more money to consumers - so we had more money chasing the same limited supply, and prices went up even more.
Did anyone in the Biden administration ever take Econ 101?
 
HornHuskerDad said:
Exactly, 6721. During the pandemic supply lines were seriously impacted, thus many goods were not available in quantity sufficient to meet demand - so, surprise, surprise, prices went up (Econ 101). With ample money chasing scarce goods and driving prices up, what did Biden do? He sent out more money to consumers - so we had more money chasing the same limited supply, and prices went up even more.
Did anyone in the Biden administration ever take Econ 101?
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Yes, but none of that was a big shift in policy. It's basically the same crap that Trump was doing.
 
Monahorns said:
Is Trump stupid or senile? It's one or the other.

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He likes any opportunity to talk about something he says he's going to do with the taxpayers money being "big and beautiful." It's all dumb.

In reality, though I do agree with him that the practice of the last 60 years of all federal buildings being big, ugly, and characterless monstrosities should end, that should be done gradually as federal buildings actually need to be replaced. We shouldn't waste money by getting rid of federal buildings that are perfectly functional even if they're ugly.

The FBI building doesn't need to be replaced or moved. It's fine. What's wrong is the people in the building, especially the DC field office, which is actually in one of the nicer federal buildings.

What's also wrong is the DC city government. They're running the city like other progressive big cities, meaning they're doing everything they can to encourage violent crime and open drug abuse. The answer isn't new buildings or moving to VA or MD. Whether we have a big government or a small one, federal headquarters belong in DC. That's why it exists. The answer is to turn DC back into a federal district run by Congress, shitcan the mayor and council, and end the local government's crap. Problem solved.
 
Mr. Deez said:
The answer is to turn DC back into a federal district run by Congress, shitcan the mayor and council, and end the local government's crap. Problem solved.
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An alternative approach - give the District back to Maryland, keeping the federal buildings as government property (exempt from state taxes, just like military bases in other states). I would certainly prefer that approach to the Democrats' idea of turning DC into a state (and thus gaining two safe Senate seats).
 
HornHuskerDad said:
An alternative approach - give the District back to Maryland, keeping the federal buildings as government property (exempt from state taxes, just like military bases in other states). I would certainly prefer that approach to the Democrats' idea of turning DC into a state (and thus gaining two safe Senate seats).
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The founding fathers created it as a federal district and therefore subject to federal jurisdiction rather than state. i agree with their decision. Besides, Maryland is largely run by crackpots too. If you put them in charge of it, they'd screw it up as much as the lunatic DC government does.
 
The point is that Trump should be talking about abolishing the FBI. That would be "big and beautiful". But he is an idiotic, senile boomer, so he talks about giving money over to his enemies.
 
Monahorns said:
The point is that Trump should be talking about abolishing the FBI. That would be "big and beautiful". But he is an idiotic, senile boomer, so he talks about giving money over to his enemies.
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If he gets rid of the FBI, it won't be useful to him. So if he actually wins, he'd probably fire everybody and hire sycophants to do his dirty work.
 
Monahorns said:
The point is that Trump should be talking about abolishing the FBI. That would be "big and beautiful". But he is an idiotic, senile boomer, so he talks about giving money over to his enemies.
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So who is going to police federal laws? States cannot because if they did there would be 50 different interpretations/enforcement of every federal law. Talk about forum shopping.
 
Mr. Deez said:
The founding fathers created it as a federal district and therefore subject to federal jurisdiction rather than state. i agree with their decision. Besides, Maryland is largely run by crackpots too. If you put them in charge of it, they'd screw it up as much as the lunatic DC government does.
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Good point, Deez. Regarding the current thought of making the District a state - if the gist is that DC residents don't get fair representation, then simply make them Maryland residents. Then they can then appeal to Maryland's two senators. The initiative to make DC a state is just a ruse by the Democrats to create two more safe Senate seats.
 
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