2020 Presidential Election: let the jockeying commence

PecosBill said:
Every entity in history, regardless of it status is better off with allies than going it alone. It is simple math.
In US history:
- the 13 colonies were better off with French and Prussian support against the British including a resource draining land war in Europe.
- Napolean made the Louisiana Purchase with his ally US to fund a war in Europe.
- Texas Republic was joined to the US to expand and limit the Spanish influence in future SW part of the US.
- Mexican American War allowed the Western Expansion to the Pacific and acquisition of Spanish colonial Phillipines at the expense of Spain and and not Europe involved.
- In the Civil War the Northern States were better off with the massive British and French navies choosing to sit out the naval blockades in the South and Caribbean.
- In the Civil War the British could have stopped immigration to the North but chose to let it occur providing a stream of immigrant labor to expand the war effort, westward expansion etc
- Russian monarch made the Alaska Purchase to finance war efforts.
- WW1 was the Allies with the US against the Kaiser, Turks etc that redrew the map of the Middle East and East Africa.
- WW2 was the Allies with the US against the Axis countries that ended Turkish rule in the Middle east, Japanese dominance in Asia, expansion of Chinese Communism and subjugation of Eastern Europe to Soviet Communism.
- The Cold War had many European, Asian, African, Allies of the US vs the Soviets
- Korean Conflict had many Allied participants of the US vs the Communists
- Vietnam War had many Allied participants of the US vs the Communists
- Follow the Cold War to the collapse of the Soviet Empire that had many US allies involved in multiple continents. Including the arming of US ally Afghanistan against the Soviets.
- With the rise of Arab/Muslim factions in the Middle East and the rise of US ally Israel to the rise Islamic Jihadists against US interests in the region.
- Afghanistan/Iraq - Gulf 1, Gulf 2, Surge, withdrawal, Surge 2 to US current involvement Nov 24, 2020.
In every area of the world that the US has sent and stationed troops since 1776 we have had numerous allies to share the cost in blood and destruction.
A big advantage is that the US has avoided most of the destruction of war on its on territory and the cost of rebuilding has been avoided allowing for US business expansion.
Our enemies may end up our allies like UK, Canada, Japan, Germany, South Korea, AU/NZ, NATO, Saudi, Eastern Europe etc and our allies may end up our enemies like Russian, China, Iran, and the proxies.
The US has a $740B military budget that compares favorably to that of China and Russia but is always better off with other countries on our side in global conflicts to share the burden.
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It not a matter of having allies. We have allies with America First. The main difference is the allies actually contribute something with America First. NATO is a good example of that.
 
4th_floor said:
It not a matter of having allies. We have allies with America First. The main difference is the allies actually contribute something with America First. NATO is a good example of that.
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NATO was established in 1949. Trump spent 4yrs pissing on those allies. Mattis had to clean up that mess firsthand as Sec of Defense.
 
Horn6721 said:
PB
Why do you think we would go it alone against any you listed?
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The article by Mattis suggested that our history is one of help from and given to allies and his suggestion that America First foreign policy was more America Alone in my reading of it and his other published remarks.
We would never go it alone in a listing of historical events comprised of America as part of an allied effort that have already occurred.
I doubt we have the military capacity to win any global conflict today without the help of our traditional allies because a military conflict is the past not the present form of warfare.
Example - We can destroy Russia, China, NK or Iran in a full scale 20th century military conflict but what is the cost incurred to do so. In the past 21 years we have been unable to destroy Al Qaeda who attacked the US on 911 and has morphed into ISIS, Daesh, or AQI and until recently held a huge swath of land in Syria to Iraq. It took several allies to push them underground and they exist somewhere today in a form similiar to 2001.
Today warfare is asymetrical and the team with the most aircraft carriers, B1 bombers and intercontinetal cruise missles is not the winner in a country with civilian inhabitants. Look at Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, as example where the largest military power on earth are unable to impose its will.
Example Iran/NK - The US pulled out of the sanctions deal that the US, Europeans and Russia agreed to limit the production of nuclear material in Iran. reports last week were the Iranians had increased production since our withdrawal. NK today has shown larger more capable missle capacity in 2020 than in 2016. We can destroy both countries with our military power but can we stop either of them from placing a half dozen suitcase bombs in population centers? Reality says no.
Our enemy can inflict significant economic damage and loss of human life without a direct launch.
It is foolish to ignore the reality of the times.
 
Interesting article by a tech Millionaire who is using his own money to investigate the fraud.
The experts Patrick Byrne (former CEO of Overstock)is funding is an elite cyber security team that has been hired by the state of Texas to investigate a series of irregularities in the Dallas elections in 20 18. The team consisted of members with backgrounds in military intelligence and federal law enforcement, for instance, the electronic irregularities in Dallas 2018 was rooted in Dallas as use of Dominion voting machines.
He did not vote for Trump or Biden. He is a libertarian. He warned DHS in August. He has made all the findings available to Powell and team Trump.
Who knows but this is from someone without a party ax to grind BUT with a deep respect for our constitution
USA Election 2020 Was Rigged: The Evidence – Deep Capture
 
PB
You seem to think we won't have our allies against any bad actor in the world. I suspect you know that would never happen.
OR do you think we should not have, for instance , gotten NATO members to pay their fair share because they then would not like us?
 
Dominion was in there in AZ on election night
Can see the Maricopa County Elections Supervisor attempting to deflect blame back onto Dominion
 
Horn6721 said:
PB
You seem to think we won't have our allies against any bad actor in the world. I suspect you know that would never happen.
OR do you think we should not have, for instance , gotten NATO members to pay their fair share because they then would not like us?
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Not like us? Seriously that is your question.
The examples of Islamic Jihadis and Iran/NK nuclear proliferation that I provided you of the current state of asymetrical warfare where a tiny faction can make a big impact of the world economy and can only be countered with reliable and willing allies all working from the same script for a common result. Yes we could work in unison to identify and solve current and potential threats or we can build more standing armies preparing for the Soviets to come marching forward.
NATO responded when the US called for Afghanistan. I'm glad to hear you think their dues are current.
The warfare we should be preparing and funding toward has more to do with intelligence than Soviet tanks and Chinese soldiers.
Cyberwarfare, infrastructure damage, economic stability, bio weapons etc...
 
mchammer said:
This is a false choice. We will have allies when it is their interest to do so. The problem is the grift that occurs between wars.
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MC the problem is that the competition is worldwide and the shadow and asymetrical opponents do not have a soverign base. They can be anywhere they need to go supported by countries that never get their hands dirty in the process.
"Which battle or competition do you want to enter alone? Russia aggression, China expansion in Pacific, cyber security, space, nuclear proliferation, just pick the ones we can win alone."
These are all ongoing events in process today not waiting for some big bang to signal start.
 
PecosBill said:
MC the problem is that the competition is worldwide and the shadow and asymetrical opponents do not have a soverign base. They can be anywhere they need to go supported by countries that never get their hands dirty in the process.
"Which battle or competition do you want to enter alone? Russia aggression, China expansion in Pacific, cyber security, space, nuclear proliferation, just pick the ones we can win alone."
These are all ongoing events in process today not waiting for some big bang to signal start.
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Your plea would be more believable if Obama and others didn’t screw up Libya, Syria, ISIS, Georgia, Ukraine (Crimea).
 
PecosBill said:
MC the problem is that the competition is worldwide and the shadow and asymetrical opponents do not have a soverign base. They can be anywhere they need to go supported by countries that never get their hands dirty in the process.
"Which battle or competition do you want to enter alone? Russia aggression, China expansion in Pacific, cyber security, space, nuclear proliferation, just pick the ones we can win alone."
These are all ongoing events in process today not waiting for some big bang to signal start.
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If these countries cannot fight beyond their borders, why do we care?
 
mchammer said:
Your plea would be more believable if Obama and others didn’t screw up Libya, Syria, ISIS, Georgia, Ukraine (Crimea).
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Agree 100%
No one has yet to figure out how to redo the past but we can do our best to deal with the present and what the future holds which is my point.
 
PecosBill said:
The article by Mattis suggested that our history is one of help from and given to allies and his suggestion that America First foreign policy was more America Alone in my reading of it and his other published remarks.
We would never go it alone in a listing of historical events comprised of America as part of an allied effort that have already occurred.
I doubt we have the military capacity to win any global conflict today without the help of our traditional allies because a military conflict is the past not the present form of warfare.
Example - We can destroy Russia, China, NK or Iran in a full scale 20th century military conflict but what is the cost incurred to do so. In the past 21 years we have been unable to destroy Al Qaeda who attacked the US on 911 and has morphed into ISIS, Daesh, or AQI and until recently held a huge swath of land in Syria to Iraq. It took several allies to push them underground and they exist somewhere today in a form similiar to 2001.
Today warfare is asymetrical and the team with the most aircraft carriers, B1 bombers and intercontinetal cruise missles is not the winner in a country with civilian inhabitants. Look at Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, as example where the largest military power on earth are unable to impose its will.
Example Iran/NK - The US pulled out of the sanctions deal that the US, Europeans and Russia agreed to limit the production of nuclear material in Iran. reports last week were the Iranians had increased production since our withdrawal. NK today has shown larger more capable missle capacity in 2020 than in 2016. We can destroy both countries with our military power but can we stop either of them from placing a half dozen suitcase bombs in population centers? Reality says no.
Our enemy can inflict significant economic damage and loss of human life without a direct launch.
It is foolish to ignore the reality of the times.
Click to expand...
What you are not considering is the massive egos of both Trump and the General. Both men are extreme alpha dogs. The pissing match that we have seen between the men is predictable and inevitable. Trump should never have hired either Kelly or Mattis for permanent positions in the Whitehouse. He should have hired them for defense advisors and treated them with the respect they deserved.
 
PecosBill said:
MC the problem is that the competition is worldwide and the shadow and asymetrical opponents do not have a soverign base. They can be anywhere they need to go supported by countries that never get their hands dirty in the process.
"Which battle or competition do you want to enter alone? Russia aggression, China expansion in Pacific, cyber security, space, nuclear proliferation, just pick the ones we can win alone."
These are all ongoing events in process today not waiting for some big bang to signal start.
Click to expand...
BTW. With Obama having groomed so many allies, why is it we were the only country to give Iran pallets of gold bars as enticements to sign the treaty?
 
PB
I agree we should and are stepping up efforts for tech warfare.
Actually by outlining what we should do you are making the case for putting America first.
 
My feeling has been stated many times. The United States, IN IT'S RIGHT MIND, is the ONLY country in the world that has the will to stand up to Russia and China. There is no doubt about love of country and coming together underneath the flag on the right. The Left right now cannot answer the bell. They want to impress Europeans. It's a joke. We have to lead. Period. That is what the world needs. Europe cannot and will not.

Yes, we have friends; England and Israel. We know what Obama thought of Israel. But those are friends with clear minds about the actual state of the world.

We will always have allies holistically because they will turn to us when they realize that Putin and Communist China would run over them in our absence.

Joe Biden is open for business. Socialist business. Putting America first was the right idea. Collaborating is a ruse. It is a sick joke to normal people because we know the elites of Europe don't care one bit about us. But at least Liberals can go to Europe all a twitter over how they can show that Trump is gone. The need to impress white privileged saturated countries is rather pathetic. That's what Liberals want. That is the clue about their hypocrisy. They use white privilege as a Machiavellian tool here in the US but crave the approval of the worst white people in the history of the world.
 
PecosBill said:
Which battle or competition do you want to enter alone? Russia aggression, China expansion in Pacific, cyber security, space, nuclear proliferation, just pick the ones we can win alone.

That $740B military budget is the 800 lb Gorilla in any military contest as long as the US can borrow 60% of it on the world stage.

Nobody likes taxes when deficit spending is available.
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We won't have to ask for help by acting like they want us to. They'll want to help.
 
Worth a look if you are interested in this stuff

Anomalies in Vote Counts and Their Effects on Election 2020
A Quantitative Analysis of Decisive Vote Updates in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia on and after Election Night

In the early hours of November 4th, 2020, Democratic candidate Joe Biden received several major “vote spikes” that substantially — and decisively — improved his electoral position in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia. Much skepticism and uncertainty surrounds these “vote spikes.” Critics point to suspicious vote counting practices, extreme differences between the two major candidates’ vote counts, and the timing of the vote updates, among other factors, to cast doubt on the legitimacy of some of these spikes. While data analysis cannot on its own demonstrate fraud or systemic issues, it can point us to statistically anomalous cases that invite further scrutiny.

This is one such case: Our analysis finds that a few key vote updates in competitive states were unusually large in size and had an unusually high Biden-to-Trump ratio. We demonstrate the results differ enough from expected results to be cause for concern.

* * * *
In particular, we are able to quantify the extent of compliance with this property and discover that, of the 8,954 vote updates used in the analysis, these four decisive updates were the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 7th most anomalous updates in the entire data set. Not only does each of these vote updates not follow the generally observed pattern, but the anomalous behavior of these updates is particularly extreme. That is, these vote updates are outliers of the outliers.

The four vote updates in question are:

An update in Michigan listed as of 6:31AM Eastern Time on November 4th, 2020, which shows 141,258 votes for Joe Biden and 5,968 votes for Donald Trump

An update in Wisconsin listed as 3:42AM Central Time on November 4th, 2020, which shows 143,379 votes for Joe Biden and 25,163 votes for Donald Trump

A vote update in Georgia listed at 1:34AM Eastern Time on November 4th, 2020, which shows 136,155 votes for Joe Biden and 29,115 votes for Donald Trump

An update in Michigan listed as of 3:50AM Eastern Time on November 4th, 2020, which shows 54,497 votes for Joe Biden and 4,718 votes for Donald Trump​
This report predicts what these vote updates would have looked like, had they followed the same pattern as the vast majority of the 8,950 others. We find that the extents of the respective anomalies here are more than the margin of victory in all three states — Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia — which collectively represent forty-two electoral votes.

Conclusion
This report studies 8,954 individual updates to the vote totals in all 50 states and finds that four individual updates — two of which were widely noticed on the internet, including by the President — are profoundly anomalous; they deviate from a pattern which is otherwise found in the vast majority of the remaining 8,950 vote updates. The findings presented by this report [28]suggest that four vote count updates — which collectively were decisive in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia, and thus decisive of a critical forty-two electoral votes — are especially anomalous and merit further investigation.

In particular, the finding that the broader data follows general patterns and our ability to measure just how much any individual vote update does — or doesn’t — follow this pattern allows us to make concrete claims about both how extreme any given vote update is and about what any particular vote update might have looked like, had it been less extreme one one axis or another.

We further find that if these updates were only more extreme than 99% of all updates nationally in terms of their deviation from this generally-observed pattern, that, holding all else equal, Joe Biden may very well have lost the states of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Georgia, and that he would have 42 fewer Electoral votes — putting Biden below the number required to win the Presidency. Either way, it is indisputable that his margin of victory in these three states relies on four most anomalous vote updates identified by the metric developed in this report....
​
Anomalies in Vote Counts and Their Effects on Election 2020
 
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If "normal" or average absentee ballot rejection rates were applied to 2020 ....
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The Order for a Prelim Injunction in PA if anyone is still interested
The judge is supposed to be a partisan a pro-Biden Dem so this probably wont mean much
Plus I think the Dems already appealed it directly to the state Supreme Ct, which has already shown its colors. If you read my post above about Article II, the PA Supreme Ct was one of the more egregious violators of the US Const in the 2020 election when it made new voting rules and laws in PA
Dont forget, W lost all cases at all levels, until he got before the last court, the one that matters most
Enr1iECWMAMxkJG
 
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Horn6721 said:
But it is a good thing it is moving into the courts
right?
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It's the start of a process that should end up before the SCOTUS, again
But, unlike Gore v. Bush, there are multiple jurisdictions involved which will complicate the timing somewhat
At this stage, IMO, the single most important thing for the Trump side is that they get good records in each case. Get everything in, and do it right. There will be no second chances
 
Joe Fan said:
Rep political analyst and former Trump Data Chief Matt Braynard thinks he can detect voter fraud by comparing absentee ballots and early voters to the Social Security Death Index and the National Change of Address Database. Braynard is president of a company that provides services for voter targeting, polling and fundraising. He has a "GoFundMe page" but thinks they might nuke it (bc, you know, that is how BigTech rolls these days). Still he is already up to ~$170k. He says he has vendors lined up for Social Security and the Change of Address data, and is "Tracking down source data on Early Voters/ABS [absentee ballots]."

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Here are some conclusions from Matt Braynard, who I wrote about above

 
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