Where do Rights originate?

I believe in determinism and am not religious, i.e. don't make a supreme being (I'm hearing Time Bandits here) an active assumption.

None the less, I side with Daniel Dennett, more or less, in his book about a free will worth wanting in a deterministic world. While its all been determined, we are none the less creatures evolved to choose, evade, etc outcomes in our world from our perspective, the action perspective. If the supreme being sits up there knowing its all determined, then he views our actions not as choices, but we precieve them as choices and evasions. That's real life. The so called design stance is not for us and is not how we live our lives, That is, knowledge of determinism does not relieve us of our role in our world, to continue the choosing and evading. This knowledge is sort of a banal fact which doesn't really impact any choice (save choosing what to believe),

I do agree it makes for interesting paradoxes when discussing theoretical aspects of the supposed supreme being, etc.
 
Mia
Calling Brickhorn here. Lets just say, at least one quantum theory formulation has quantum behavior determined, but not predictable Under conventional formulations, this wouldn't be allowed under "no hidden variables".

Yet, many physicists would not agree that quantum theory implies non determinism. Or that indeterminacy would influence the free will question: it does not. Again, refer to Dennett's "Freedom Evolves" for the elaboration of this.
 
Yeah... that's why I said, "in my opinion", it is certainly a point which is still on the table. I find the subject interesting... but ultimantly inconsequential to my life. Whether my free will is real or imaginary it is good enough for me... and if it is already determined, it doesn't matter what I think anyway.
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Neither your dog nor your god is a person.

1. God is omniscient, i.e. God knows everything (that is true) about the past, the present, and the future.

2. God has given human beings free will so that human beings can choose between good and evil.

3. But if God knows beforehand what you are going to choose, then you must choose what God knows you are going to choose. If you must choose what God knows you are going to choose, then you are not truly choosing; you may deliberate, but eventually you are going to choose exactly as God knew you would. There is only one possible upshot of your deliberating.

4. Thus if God has foreknowledge, then you do not have free will; or, equivalently, if you have free will, then God does not have foreknowledge.

In reply to:
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Or, no god, no omniscient being, but we're still players on an etch-a-scketch in so far as the world is still determined. But, in our etch a sketch world, we keep on keeping on. As its determined we do.
 
If what you are typing right now isn't just the result of the laws of nature and a predetermined path of the physical signals and impulses in your brain going out to your body, then you have some metaphysical component to yourself which isn't bound by the laws of nature - and it's hard to imagine how that would come about without God. So it seems to me that, if you believe in a universe with no God, then the laws of physics determine everything, since the universe has no mind to make a choice, every effect has a cause, and thus every effect we currently see would be traced back to the initial state of things. Of course, one could argue on some quantum level (which I don't understand much of) that there is true randomness, but that's still not the same as free will.

In reply to:
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Predetermined is telling my child that they will eat spaghetti. They have no choice. I decided it for them.

Foreknowledge of a decision is knowing that my child will pick spaghetti when given the choice.

They aren't the same thing. They still might result in the same thing, but they are not the same.
 
Choice requires that there be a viable alternative. If the outcome is assured, then the alternative is not attainable. If there are no attainable alternatives then there is nothing to be chosen. In this manner omniscience (and by extension omnipotence) obviates choice. If you believe that God is omnipotent, then there is no will (free or otherwise) but God's.

Most religions, actually, believe in an non-omniscient God. Any narative mythology almost requires it.

As I said above, determanism is not a "productive" philosophy. If it is true, then you have no free will and your conscienceness is an illusion... and what fun is that?
 
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