What will you do If TH Kneels?

[moondog_LFZ]

C) There is one very large and growing group of people in this country who seek to silence all dissenters, and create one order of man...one which must acquiesce and bow to the order which they choose. I am not talking about booing, moaning, complaining on a sports blog, whining, or criticizing. I am talking about flat out disallowing and denying any right to dissent. There's an enormous difference between the two
- and one is by far more dangerous than the other (And it isn't the one you say you would most likely fear).

I guess it's like Woody Allen said.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you".

 

[RainH2burntO]

I think it would be cool if all the players and coaches would stand on their heads during the National Anthem. Then all of us message board junkies could start a whole new thread about whether it is disrespectful to stand on your head during the National Anthem, do you you have a constitutional right to stand on your head during the National Anthem or who knows it might start a new trend.

My point is this stuff is really getting old and it's time to play football. If how the coaches and players act offend you, then tune out.

I for one will be watching. And I agree with your post.
I, for one, am not booing, leaving, nor do I hold in disdain TH or any of the players. There are some here of a different opinion. Any offense I feel has more to do with my own concerns about the country as a whole.
My passion and expression is purely for the sake of dialogue about views on what is healthy, productive, and good for the present and future of our people and country.
I am of a strong belief that we can disagree and still love, care for, and support one another.
I support the coach, players, and team at this time and am ready for some football, regardless of feeling or perception of these issues.

 

[RainH2burntO]

I guess it's like Woody Allen said.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you".

Lol.....great -and funny- summation, Moon.

 

[MajesticII]

You can make all the arguments you want. The simple truth is..If you don't teach people to LOVE their country, they will not fight and lay down their lives for it. When you have the attitude so many of you have about honoring our country, or I should say..... disrepecting it; soon we will lose all those freedoms and rights you mention.

 

[RainH2burntO]

I think it would be cool if all the players and coaches would stand on their heads during the National Anthem. Then all of us message board junkies could start a whole new thread about whether it is disrespectful to stand on your head during the National Anthem, do you you have a constitutional right to stand on your head during the National Anthem or who knows it might start a new trend.

My point is this stuff is really getting old and it's time to play football. If how the coaches and players act offend you, then tune out.

LA, I would much rather see them stand on their heads.
At least that would be entertaining.. and spark some peripheral and predictable humor, as well..
Things mostly look like this to me anyways these days, so why not?!?
If they won't do it ...maybe those of us who have issues with the whole thing can start a counter movement in the stands and try it.

 

[horninchicago]

Any of you supporting this are basically saying The United States of America operates and runs on racist principles to oppress minorities. That is what they are saying and what this is all about.

Not me. I'm out. I have principles. The US is the least racist country on the planet.

Prove me wrong.

 

[nashhorn]

Ya know there is some ironic reasonableness to the Dolphins comments I read - it is more divisive (even fluff as they say) to attempt consolation by playing two anthems. So if you appreciate that, why not just stay inside and let others act ridiculous while you blow off the garbage. In a way I like it.

 

[bystander]

Ya know there is some ironic reasonableness to the Dolphins comments I read - it is more divisive (even fluff as they say) to attempt consolation by playing two anthems. So if you appreciate that, why not just stay inside and let others act ridiculous while you blow off the garbage. In a way I like it.

You have a good point. But who drove it to this point? Them or the panting virtue signaling executives who can't get it right?

 

[nashhorn]

The virtue signaling executives.

 

[RainH2burntO]

Any of you supporting this are basically saying The United States of America operates and runs on racist principles to oppress minorities. That is what they are saying and what this is all about.

Not me. I'm out. I have principles. The US is the least racist country on the planet.

Prove me wrong.

I agree, Horn. That is what they are saying and I couldnt disagree with their sentiment (and focus) more.
There should be waaay more celebration of, focus on, and acknowledgement of the good this country has done and the opportunities it has provided black people (and all peoples). It is ironic that these people are taking advantage of all that this country has provided to even be in a position to have such a strong platform and voice to express their frustrations or complaints about it. This racist country took slaves from a land of slavery, and now they are doctors. lawyers, politicians, judges, wealthy athletes, famous entertainers, ploiceman, pastors, professors, and college-educated athletes.
I heard a black pastor and professor (who is in Dallas this week gathering leaders and pastors to educate others on this) articulate it very well the other day.
I'm just admitting I will still watch and support...for now...maybe less passionately. IDK.
It hasnt gotten to that point for me...yet. I have major issues with the movement and protests, but am giving the young guys some slack for their youth and the fact that I know they have been misguided.

 

[bystander]

You can make all the arguments you want. The simple truth is..If you don't teach people to LOVE their country, they will not fight and lay down their lives for it. When you have the attitude so many of you have about honoring our country, or I should say..... disrepecting it; soon we will lose all those freedoms and rights you mention.

Loving your country enough to die for it is a very deep subject. Very deep. To begin with, is it necessary to die for your country? If our enemies (Russia, China and all Israel hating Muslim countries) believed a majority of this country would rather burn the flag than salute it, would they attack? Would they contact the flag burners and coordinate an internal insurrection? What incentive would they provide the flag burners? Would they promise a much greater level of equality. A love for their culture?

Would Russia do this?
Would China?
Would Islamic fundamentalists?

Would they provide equality on the level of the academically defined white privilege?

There are other countries cited by the Left in order to make political points, especially when it comes to health care: Cuba, Sweden and Denmark. The former is a communist dictatorship; the latter two are almost 100% white. So the political rhetoric seems silly to me when comparing the US to them.

What's left? Europe? Do the Europeans (the incubator of white privilege and imperialism; the one's who enslaved the indigenous tribes and stole their land) love the flag burners to the level they love their own culture?

I doubt it.

So in the end, what would they fight for? America or to destroy all who do not think like them?

I wonder...

 

[stanhin]

"The joke is that a bunch of football players think they can change and reverse the way society has been worldwide for about 7,000 years regarding this entire subject. It’s been this way for a very obvious and factual reason."

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. What precisely is "the way society has been worldwide for about 7,000 years" and what is the "very obvious and factual reason" for that?

 

[horninchicago]

I agree, Horn. There should be waaay more celebration of, focus on, and acknowledgement of the good this country has done and the opportunities it has provided black people (and all peoples). It is ironic that these people are taking advantage of all that this country has provided to even be in a position to have such a strong platform and voice to express their frustrations or complaints about it. This racist country took slaves from a land of slavery, and now they are doctors. lawyers, politicians, judges, wealthy athletes, famous entertainers, ploiceman, pastors, professors, and college-educated athletes.
I heard a black pastor and professor (who is in Dallas this week gathering leaders and pastors to educate others on this) articulate it very well the other day.
I'm just admitting I will still watch and support...for now...maybe less passionately. IDK.
It hasnt gotten to that point for me...yet. I have major issues with the movement and protests, but am giving the young guys some slack for their youth and the fact that I know they have been misguided.

Keep in mind, the racist countries where the slaves came from were complicit in that.

 

[huisache]

I will be mildly shocked if TH does not kneel or engage in some kind of act of contrition for the misconduct of my ancestors. I really don't give a zhit.

I find the adulation of the jocks to be disgusting and the idea of cheering a steer somewhat comical.........and the chanting of how OU zucks to be in bad taste.

people beeching about our history of bias towards blacks and hispanics is ok with me and I wonder why we don't beech about the mistreatment of Irish, Italians, Jews, Catholics, Mormons and some other groups who are now accepted in full.

Not enough time I guess.

 

[EDT]

It will be very interesting this weekend watching some of the games and how each team handles social injustice. It would be great to see some just play football. The great thing about sports is when you are at a game the person on your left and right could be a polar opposite of you politically and you don't know. You have a common bond and cheer for the same team. It's a wonderful escape!

 

[bystander]

I will be mildly shocked if TH does not kneel or engage in some kind of act of contrition

I think he's all in...

 

[Galvestonhorn]

Sounds like you’re deposing me Stanhin. So I’ll go back to my deposition answers of yes, no, I don’t know, I don’t remember.

and if you read huisaches great post you’ll get an idea of what I’m talking about.

 

[bystander]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. What precisely is "the way society has been worldwide for about 7,000 years" and what is the "very obvious and factual reason" for that?

I think what he is saying is that racism has always been a problem. It doesn't make it right. It just makes it common.

I would add that majority privilege is also a historical problem. The tendency for a culture to come together and preserve itself is huge. What does it mean to be English? French? Russian? Japanese? Chinese? These cultures seem to be whole and unified in their self-image and need for self-preservation on a nation-state level.

What is it to be an American? Is there anything we can ever agree on?

I doubt it now. Freedom means burning a flag and destroying any historical pride in our nation. So where does that leave us?

 

[stanhin]

Sounds like you’re deposing me Stanhin. So I’ll go back to my deposition answers of yes, no, I don’t know, I don’t remember.and if you read huisaches great post you’ll get an idea of what I’m talking about.

Are you afraid to spell it out?

 

[stanhin]

I think what he is saying is that racism has always been a problem.

So, the Black athletes (and the rest of us) should not waste any time trying to change it--and instead just be grateful for what they've gotten so far and shut up about the rest?

 

[bystander]

So, the Black athletes (and the rest of us) should not waste any time trying to change it--and instead just be grateful for what they've gotten so far and shut up about the rest?

No. I think what he's saying is that this is a human problem and that America should not be destroyed over it. It doesn't mean we can't try to solve our problems. But the effort is being made by forcing a decision between patriotism and racism. They can be combined as the ideal to fight for. The flag should be co-opted by #BLM, not destroyed. The flag purportedly stands for freedom. Why not wave it in the face of those who appear to not live that freedom?

I believe they have made a tactical error.

 

[Galvestonhorn]

Afraid of what Stanhin?

all of the groups huisache mentions plus numerous other ones (Christians as an example) at what time or another we’re persecuted
and many were enslaved. Guess what? They overcame it.

 

[stanhin]

No. I think what he's saying is . . .

He did not say that specifically, and so far he's been unwilling to spell out what he meant. I certainly hope he did not mean what I think he meant.

 

[stanhin]

Guess what? They overcame it.

Good, so we are all in favor of Blacks continuing to struggle to eliminate racism, and we are all in on helping them to do that, right?

 

[I_Dont_Exist]

At this point Herman and the players would gain more support for their cause by not kneeling. They're cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

[RainH2burntO]

So, the Black athletes (and the rest of us) should not waste any time trying to change it--and instead just be grateful for what they've gotten so far and shut up about the rest?

This^^^^^to me hits on why we should stop talking about the subject. We've come full circle and primary points have all been laid out, hashed out, and even butchered at times.
You either believe systemic racism is a prevelant and major issue in the country or you do not. I personally do not agree it is, and that the narrative is dangerous, destructive, and unproductive.
Of course, if it is a real issue..I do not think you'll get many here saying we don't give a damn...certainly not me.
I believe the current tone, approach, narrative and methods to be counterproductive to any real change - if indeed change needs to occur.
Show me someone saying America is a great country, I am thankful for all the opportunities afforded me and my people, and I care for this place and those with whom I share this land, but I'm hurting and we've got some issues to resolve together- and I will show you a waaay different response than you currently see here from about 85% of us.
It seems there are some assumptions, misunderstandings, and miscommunication at work.

 

[RainH2burntO]

At this point Herman and rhe players would gain more support for their cause by not kneeling. They're cutting off their nose to spite their face.

This^^^^^^^

 

[stanhin]

You either believe systemic racism is a prevelant and major issue in the country or you do not. I personally do not agree it is, and that the narrative is dangerous, destructive, and unproductive. Of course, if it is a real issue..I do not think you'll get many here saying we don't give a damn...certainly not me.

According galvestonhorn's post (as interpreted by bystander) racism has always been a problem (bystander's interpretation) and it is ridiculous for football players to think that they can change that (galvestonhorn's post). Those two together indicate that those two posters concede racism currently exists. I agree with them on that much, at least.

 

[Galvestonhorn]

I would bet a lot of $$$$$ Stanhin has very few black friends, has never been on a week vacation w a black couple or family, doesn’t have dinner parties w black people and doesn’t entertain black people at his house unless it’s business.

[name calling removed. Next one is a ban @Galvestonhorn]

 

[Galvestonhorn]

Afraid to answer?