What will you do If TH Kneels?

bystander said:
I am a t-shirt fan. I have no emotional attachment to the university. I half-heartedly sing the Eyes of Texas and wave my horns when everyone say's, "Give 'em hell, give 'em hell." But I'm detached from the alumni experience. The team is the home team and I support them in that regard. I've always liked Texas because Big Bertha and Bevo caught my eye long ago when I watched Texas play Tennessee in a bowl game while I was a child. I was living in Florida at the time and my Father was an alumnus of Florida State University (BS, MS, Ph.D.) I grew up a Seminole and it's still in my blood. But we moved to Texas in 1970 and I've been here ever since. I ended up going to Trinity. I moved to Austin in 1994.

So to me, The University of Texas is not an acquired taste, but instead a feeling of loyalty due to circumstances. And I'm not a true orangeblood. I get the angst over Confederate statues and racist university fathers. I think Herman is in a spot where he had to make a choice. There is zero nuance to this civil rights movement. It's all in or else.

So when he kneels I won't feel anything because it's not real to me. It's a wave of emotional power and he made his choice. If the team performs well because he supported them, then I guess I can live with that superficial point of view, because in the end, it's just a game. And it doesn't help my life in any way. It's exciting to watch great athletes and be around a great crowd.

But that's it.

I don't look to Herman, Popovich, Kerr or any other coach for my spiritual or humanitarian growth. Neither do I look to Biden or Trump.

I own that myself.
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Love it! And I think you are passionate and invested than a "t-shirt" fan. Hook Em!
 
“Can the average fan relate? No, they can’t,” Herman said. “There’s a double standard maybe a little bit. We’re going to pack 100,000 people into [Darrell K. Royal Stadium] and millions watch on TV that are predominantly white — not all of them certainly, but most of ’em white. We’re gonna cheer when they score touchdowns, and we’re gonna hug our buddy when they get sacks or an interception.

“But we gonna let them date our daughter? Are we going to hire them in a position of power in our company? That’s the question I have for America. You can’t have it both ways.

“And if you’re going to cheer them and love them for three-and-a-half hours a Saturday in the fall, you better have the same feelings for them off the field, because they’re human beings. They deserve the same amount of respect and human rights that all of us do in this country when we agreed on the social contract to be a member of the United States.”

I think this statement needs to be unpacked. The "average fan" was blindsided by Herman on this. He is very arrogant. He decided he knows better. He decided the "average fan" has responsibilities to his players beyond spending thousands of dollars for the program that gave him a set for life salary and the glory of being the head coach of The University of Texas. Nobody knew who he was when he was here. He did well at Cougar High and suddenly talks as if he's earned the right beyond basic free speech. His attitude is off-putting to say the least.

Let them date our daughter? What's that all about? Why do I even have to think about it. It's stupid to say that. I'm here for the game. THAT'S RIGHT. FOR THE GAME. I PAID WELL FOR THAT RIGHT TO WATCH.

The players are treated like royalty. This is a fact. Jesus Christ, I mean his attitude is so one-sided it's ridiculous. That is why people are upset with him. He threw the fan base under the bus.

I didn't take it personally because I don't care what he say's, but I can analyze it and comment on the folly. I saw the egomania long ago and people like that mean nothing to me. He just happens to be the coach.

Ironically, Shaka Smart has laid low in all of this. Why does the white privileged snarky smirking egomaniac take it upon himself to judge the fans?

He's not impressive AT ALL.

You can't have it both ways. What are you talking about? Playing for the team on a full-ride and having the time of your life is a one-way street relationship as far as I'm concerned. It's their way. I pay. They play. I cheer. They bow.

I don't know them. I don't want to know them. I don't want to know Tom. I don't want to know Sam. I don't want to be one of those old guys that Colt's wife criticized about wanting to be around the players. I don't want to know Trump either. I don't want to know lots of people. I have my relationship whether it's the feeling from a song or happiness because someone got their feet in bounds on a first down catch. Beyond that it's so over-rated.

And Herman wants to demand things from us. Well, here's my demand:

WIN SOME GAMES RICH BOY.

I can spend my money on all kinds of things. I ask nothing of you except to provide the represented entertainment and to field a team worthy of Darrell Royal. Otherwise, my money will be saved for other things. Like the beach. Or helping my mother. Or my kids.

The more I think about it the more I challenge the whole Mensa hype. He doesn't get it at all. The complete lack of context of how we spend our money is lost on him. His comment is PURE ENTITLEMENT.
 
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Yeah I think it would have been better for TH to say at the presser something to the effect “yes we’d love to have the stadium full and play before packed stands but we will do our best for the devoted fans that show up” instead of a we don’t care remark. Not really too bright a comment imo.
 
Herman just needs to STFU.

Edit: See next post. Apologies. Should not be calling Coach Herman denigrating names.
 
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A lot of us gave him a pass early on with the hugs and kisses for the players. Now, I, for one, see it was a precursor for all of this. He isn’t in charge. He panders to the players.

Edit: Apologies for the name calling of the Coach. Was in poor taste.
 
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Pregame will have several options to think about the events of the off season.

CAMPBELL-WILLIAMS FIELD DEDICATION
• At the request of the Jamail family, Joe Jamail Field has been renamed in honor of Longhorn Legends and Heisman Trophy winners Earl Campbell (1974-77) and Ricky Williams (1995-98).
• Campbell, the famed "Tyler Rose," holds a special place in The University of Texas and state of Texas' football history. As a senior at UT in 1977, Campbell became the first Longhorn to win the Heisman Trophy after he rushed for 1,744 yards – a Southwest Conference record that stood for 16 years – and 19 touchdowns. He led the nation in rushing and scoring, and posted a pair of 200-yard games on the road against Texas A&M (222 yards) and SMU (213 yards). Campbell also set a Texas record for 100-yard rushing games that season (10).
• Williams, a San Diego native, completed his UT career with 21 NCAA and 46 school records under his name en route to becoming Texas' second Heisman Trophy winner in 1998. He was a three-time first-team all-conference pick, a two-time Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year and only the second player to twice win the Doak Walker Award (nation's top running back). Williams' career culminated in his final home game, on the field now named in his honor, when he surpassed Tony Dorsett's 22-year-old NCAA rushing record.
• The field at Darrell K Royal-Texas Memorial Stadium was originally named after Joe Jamail in 1997 to honor the lifelong Longhorn's immense contributions to The University of Texas' athletic department.
 
What I don't understand is why can't a person love their country and still be able to kneel down during the national anthem. The idea of kneeling is to bring attention to excessive police abuse. Isn't that right?
So if Tom kneels with the players then he is merely agreeing with the players about the idea of police brutality. It's not about disrespecting the country. I'm sure he loves this country, the land of opportunity.
Or am I oversimplifying?
However, What some people don't seem to understand is that when people resist arrest then the cops have to and I mean have to use extreme force at times to subdue. Then bad things could happen.
Of course someone will say what about the times when cops do wrong to those who are innocent. Well I say that many cops get prosecuted through a court of law and go to jail.
This is not a perfect world.
What I don't like is that there are certain groups who want to take advantage of this to further a cause and if it means ruining this wonderful country then so be it. That's nothing short of betrayal and terrorism. There needs to be tough justice for the perpetrators.
What is lost is that equality had already made great strides in the past decades and were still getting better. So this reminds me of the story of the goose that laid golden eggs, one every morning.
Then one day the owner thought "if I kill and cut up the goose I can get many golden eggs at once". So he did that and found no golden eggs at all and none daily from then on cause the goose is dead.
No more daily wealth.
This is what
seems to be happening now.
 
Interesting post Poms. In my naive mind there is a difference in kneeling to make a statement and then kneeling every time. Certainly cannot understand a ‘separate’ anthem though, if they stand up for that it’s an entirely different signal imo.
 
I will watch the game.

I really do not think it is necessary for me or any other citizen to interfere with another's individual's non-threatening freedom of expression. The First Amendment is a fundamental principle upon which our nation is built. I rather think that people who solicit reactions to someone exercising that right are the real threat.
 
First Amendment does not apply to being a college football player. The government is not taking part in telling anyone he can't kneel or anything. UT and the NCAA could certainly do it and that does not come close to 1st Amendment violation.

I can't show up at my airline and express myself in that kind of way without likely being fired. Not 1st Amendment protection.
 
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I'll defer to the lawyers around here. My understanding is the 1st Amendment protects your speech from having you locked up.
 
The only reason I won't watch is no LHN. I'm not sure if I can quote it exactly but there's a line from "The West Wing" that goes "China"s gonna use slave labor whether we sell 'em cheeseburgers or not; so we sell them cheeseburgers and hope for the best". Just my view.
 
They are being a material disruption to the team or university. It's in the essay you linked. Are you a lawyer? You sure don't sound like one if you are.
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Yes I am. However, my area of practice is not First Amendment law (or anywhere near it), which was why I (i) found the article (rather than just shoot from the hip in my reply), (ii) was careful not to overplay it when I referred to it, and (iii) put the smiley after the "Thank you." As I read the article, the question is whether the activity actually disrupts the game or a practice. You have concluded it does. I'm not so sure; I think that would be the issue. Finally, I seem to have made you sufficiently upset to insult me. I didn't intend to do that.
 
stanhin said:
Yes I am. However, my area of practice is not First Amendment law (or anywhere near it), which was why I (i) found the article (rather than just shoot from the hip in my reply), (ii) was careful not to overplay it when I referred to it, and (iii) put the smiley after the "Thank you." As I read the article, the question is whether the activity actually disrupts the game or a practice. You have concluded it does. I'm not so sure; I think that would be the issue. Finally, I seem to have made you sufficiently upset to insult me. I didn't intend to do that.
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It's an interesting discussion. I'm an airline pilot, so I'm smarter than everyone. ;)

:coolnana:
 
EDT said:
I think it's a given that some of the players will kneel when the National Anthem will be played. So I have thought about this a lot. I bet that TH and company inculding CD have come up with a plan. Either no players will kneel, and I pray it's so, maybe a couple will or if a lot have said they will then I bet TH and the coaches will kneel in solidarity to deflect attention away from the players. Bill O'Brien the coach of the Texans without nuts has stated that he will kneel at every game with the players. If TH and the other coaches kneel then that will be over the line for me. Ok, Flame away! My family has a long history of defending America and some have lost their lives. I like the Longhorns but I love our great country more.
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Bill stayed in the locker room with the players till after the Anthem. He's bending over in the 4th quarter. Shoulda stayed in the locker.
 
stanhin said:
Perhaps the law has changed since the following article was written, but, if it hasn't, the above statement may be an over-simplification and not entirely accurate, If I'm reading it correctly, the article suggests the standard is whether the activity disrupts the actual game (or a practice): Do college athletes have a First Amendment right to strike? (essay) | Inside Higher Ed
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It doesn't interrupt the game. But if an employee decides to protest on company time and it costs the company business is it still a free speech issue or insubordination?

Making demands after signing the deal (scholarship that went to you instead of someone else) doesn't sit well with me ESPECIALLY when the objections were all there prior to the signature. Leave the University if you don't like it. Rescind your scholarship and then make your demands.

That would be impressive. That would take guts. That would be like Mohammed Ali walking away from his boxing career for a cause.

But keeping your scholarship, retaining your glory with vapid gold-digging jock sniffing women and blowing off the Eyes of Texas is not exactly the same thing.
 
So the Dolphins are now doubling down on the finger at the flag:

Dolphins, fed up with 'fluff,' to skip anthems

Nice work guys. The problem with race is so deep that staying in the locker room doesn't mean crap. It only means you are on record with your tactical error and that instead of nuanced adjustments to your message, instead you are taking a sledgehammer and destroying everything.
 
Bystander, my post of the article was for the very limited purpose of responding to the assertion that football players do not have First Amendment rights as a matter of law. It was not intended to address the broader issues you raise, which involve whether the players "should" be protesting.
 
stanhin said:
Bystander, my post of the article was for the very limited purpose of responding to the assertion that football players do not have First Amendment rights as a matter of law. It was not intended to address the broader issues you raise, which involve whether the players "should" be protesting.
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Ok.
 
bystander said:
It doesn't interrupt the game. But if an employee decides to protest on company time and it costs the company business is it still a free speech issue or insubordination?

Making demands after signing the deal (scholarship that went to you instead of someone else) doesn't sit well with me ESPECIALLY when the objections were all there prior to the signature. Leave the University if you don't like it. Rescind your scholarship and then make your demands.

That would be impressive. That would take guts. That would be like Mohammed Ali walking away from his boxing career for a cause.

But keeping your scholarship, retaining your glory with vapid gold-digging jock sniffing women and blowing off the Eyes of Texas is not exactly the same thing.
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And I think the article still doesn't show that these guys should be able to get away with this and suffer zero consequences if the school had the balls to do anything. Seems to show the opposite to me. This is definitely causing a loss of revenue for UT from what I can gather. Not sure why they allow it.
 
BurntOrangeLH said:
I will watch the game.

I really do not think it is necessary for me or any other citizen to interfere with another's individual's non-threatening freedom of expression. The First Amendment is a fundamental principle upon which our nation is built. I rather think that people who solicit reactions to someone exercising that right are the real threat.
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You stumbled onto something very important here, BOLH.
Oftentimes, things that seem very complicated aren't as complicated as they appear.
In this instance, the protesters are basically expressing their desire to right what they perceive as wrong in regards to lack of freedom, opportunity, or fair and equal treatment.
On the other side, you have many people in this country who tie the perceptions and actions of those protesters to other activities and emerging trends that they themselves perceive as a threat to their own freedoms, opportunity, and/or fair and equal treatment.
I do not see how anyone looking at this objectively and carefully, with an open mind wouldn't A) be more curious about what exactly the perceived threat the "other side" is focused on and why ..and if it has validity and B) at the very least show respect for and be considerate to those people out of the same level of respect they give the protesters
Also C) There is one very large and growing group of people in this country who seek to silence all dissenters, and create one order of man...one which must acquiesce and bow to the order which they choose. I am not talking about booing, moaning, complaining on a sports blog, whining, or criticizing. I am talking about flat out disallowing and denying any right to dissent. There's an enormous difference between the two
- and one is by far more dangerous than the other (And it isn't the one you say you would most likely fear).
 
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I think it would be cool if all the players and coaches would stand on their heads during the National Anthem. Then all of us message board junkies could start a whole new thread about whether it is disrespectful to stand on your head during the National Anthem, do you you have a constitutional right to stand on your head during the National Anthem or who knows it might start a new trend.

My point is this stuff is really getting old and it's time to play football. If how the coaches and players act offend you, then tune out.
 
The joke is that a bunch of football players think they can change and reverse the way society has been worldwide for about 7,000 years regarding this entire subject.

It’s been this way for a very obvious and factual reason.
 
Galvestonhorn said:
The joke is that a bunch of football players think they can change and reverse the way society has been worldwide for about 7,000 years regarding this entire subject.

It’s been this way for a very obvious and factual reason.
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And I'm guessing there are people pulling their strings to do these "protests".
 
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