United Airlines Flight
- Thread starter Phil Elliott
- Start date
I am sure there were a few at the Bundy ranch that would take exception to that point of the feds showing up. But I digress.
At the most basic economic level, each of them made an economic decision that explained where they were on the demand curve. But that also applies to the forth.
Eye,
There's plenty to criticize the airline for. The airline shouldn't be subject to arbitrary limits on what they can offer bumped passengers. That's a stupid rule, but in the moment, I'm not sure what they could have done other than do the drawing. Once they got to that point, the passengers had a contractual and legal duty to cooperate.
You asked what should happen if a passenger is involuntarily bumped who has "can't miss" appointments. That's a fair question, and I think the airline should have to pay damages. After all, it's their fault. Could those damages get high in some situations (death of loved ones, important business meetings, etc.)? Sure they could, but if the airline wants to play the overbooking game, then I have no problem making them face the consequences of it when it goes wrong.
So you are pissed they ruined Continental and you want them to suffer, regardless. I get it.
If Continental was such a great airline, why was United able to take them over? It's one thing to provide great customer service, but it comes at a cost. When your customers will not pay for said service (ie, they go with another carrier who is cheaper) then you go out of business, as Continental did. People are whores for low prices and they will not pay the upcharge for better service, at least not enough of them to keep someone like Continental afloat. This is just how it is and not United's fault.
4th_floor
Dude, where's my laptop?
The guy bought his ticket and took his seat in full accordance with airline policies. His prior behavior or character had nothing to do with this incident. The airline should not have allowed him to board the plane if they were going to remove him. There were other options for getting the united employees to their destination. They should have exhausted those before forcibly removing a passenger.
You guys are leaving out that he left the plane, then ran back down the jetway and re-entered the plane. That alone made him a threat to the safety of the passengers in the opinion of the flight crew. I support that opinion. I don't want to be up in the air trapped in a metal tube with that nut.
This is hindsight talking. What exactly were those other options?
This is hindsight talking. What exactly were those other options?
It's there because of the industry. They won't want it removed.
SWA has a flight every morning from Chicago to Louisville that arrives at 7:25am. I can't imagine that would have created that much of a delay. Additionally, they could have secured a limo ride to Louisville for the four employees. Greyhound, private plane, Uber and taxis are other options off the top of my head.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Yep, business friendly rules are good, consumer/citizen protection rules are bad in this administration.
The flight was fine to take off except that one non rev EMPLOYEE could have been not on the plane.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I'm sure there were some union rules that governed that scenario. Shaark can offer more insight but I think the "deadender" employees get paid a lower rate on that flight from Chicago. At least, American Airlines used to for my stepmother who was a flight attendant.
I keep coming back to raising the voucher offer to a point where someone might accept it. Do we know if the other 3 individuals were forced off the plan and given the $800 voucher offer or did they accept it willingly?
I agree on the limit, but if you made it a cash option people would jump on it at a lower amount.
Agree with Husker probably union rules. So you are saying cancel the whole flight the next day?
Also, this quote is interesting. The Chicago Department of Aviation said an officer had been placed on leave and that the dragging “was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure.”
What is the SOP for a person who won't exit a plane?
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Agreed. Other incentives might also work. Offer a debit card for $X amount. That would likely be more effective.
Did not say that. Said leave the employee off and drive them to Louisville. That flight takes off and so does the one the next day.
I am very pro airline. They provide an integral tool for my business. With that said,other companies/industries do as well. It does not absolve them from bad practices.
I honestly know nothing about that merger, but the premise that United was able to take them over because they were not "great" is not necessarily relevant. At the end of the day, both felt it was best for their shareholders. There is an old saying in business - could be the day two fools met.
Continental started its downward trend well before the merger. To me, it occurred shortly after Gordon Bethune left.
Was he arrested? If not, I doubt there was an actual security scare or risk. I seriously do not know, but as many have pointed out post 911 is a new world at the airport.
then that should have been declared when he checked-in ... distressed passenger.
Probably also didn't get the two-week dirt cheap fare, either ... so ... appreciate the effort to save face and make a viable excuse for this passenger, but there is none.
I won't go into all the gory details ... if you're that interested, PM me a phone number. I'll be happy to help.
I don't know that this crew wasn't sitting for hours in a lounge with this deadhead scheduled and appeared at the last minute ... but I SERIOUSLY doubt it. More likely their schedule was changed "on the fly" and by the time it filtered to the agents ... boarding was in progress. It's MUCH more likely they thought as late as minutes before this SDF flight began boarding, they were going to Milwaukee ... or even ... HOME, done for the day, but got assigned to work on their day off!
I'll probably get to hear the pre-boarding calls for volunteers this evening as I'm performing my preflight work ... and I'll get to chat with the agent about all the bevy of things which can happen. I can be their best friend ... or their worst nightmare. I prefer the former and almost always get the former. I know what presses their buttons; some respond to that button mashing (from the system) and others don't. I have the authority to make it what it needs to be, but I need a cooperative agent.
Time.
This isn't a fund raiser event with a volunteer auctioneer. When seats need to be opened, they need to be opened quickly. Particularly on a deal like this, time is of the essence. So, the offer was 3x the price of the affected passengers' fare. No takers ... so there was a selection process.
no sir ... it won't guarantee you. What will guarantee you're going is paying a fare commensurate with that avoidance of risk. Like the non-refundables are typically cheaper than a refundable ticket. I can't speak to each circumstance, but understand, a fare which costs more to drive the trip is almost certainly a fare subject to the removal pool.
I am not trying to save face. He should have gotten off after they apologized and stated that he was violating federal law and would suffer the consequences. I simply disagree that they can bloody an old man up because he wanted to get home for his patients or whatever reason someone might have.
The flight was not in an oversold issue based on what I hear. It just had too many passengers to accommodate United's Louisville problem that was going to occur the next day.
I simply refuse to absolve the stupidity of United that I might have excused as just a stupid employee until the CEO stepped up and made it worse. Go buy stock in United if you want. Since this caused it to drop, now is a great time to buy if you believe they are such a great company and did the right thing.
The flight was not in an oversold issue based on what I hear. It just had too many passengers to accommodate United's Louisville problem that was going to occur the next day.
I simply refuse to absolve the stupidity of United that I might have excused as just a stupid employee until the CEO stepped up and made it worse. Go buy stock in United if you want. Since this caused it to drop, now is a great time to buy if you believe they are such a great company and did the right thing.
yessir ... and they can't drive all night and work a flight the next morning. Given the time this flight operated, I'm gonna guess the next morning's flight was scheduled such that they'd have MINIMUM rest required by regulation .... and common sense.
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who did the bloodying?
Perhaps the Republic agent was in his way and he got banged-up as he pushed back through the jetbridge door to regain access to the aircraft. IDK. It was ORD personnel who physically removed him ... cops or other law enforcement; that's a bit unclear. It IS clear, however, the airline staff were calm about the deal; that's other passenger testimony, too.
He was banged up because of HIS choice, not that of the airline staff; the REPUBLIC airline staff.
Hat Tip to @Phil Elliott for starting this thread and the original position. Thanks!
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