United Airlines Flight
- Thread starter Phil Elliott
- Start date
Didn't I say we all?
I'm not the guy making a fool of himself. 3 others deplaned with him ... anyone know anything about them except they didn't throw a fit.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I think they should have a brisk public auction. Keep raising the voucher value until they get some takers.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
How'd the "cost mitigating event" work out?
passengers have been involuntarily removed many many times ... none have garnered this attention. Why?
None of those removed passengers exhibited action/stated word which warranted the call to police. That's really a significant issue and has been acknowledged by a few here. Hopefully the process isn't changed to "allow-for" misbehavior.
I'm all for improving any process, but not just to make a change for change's sake.
None of those removed passengers exhibited action/stated word which warranted the call to police. That's really a significant issue and has been acknowledged by a few here. Hopefully the process isn't changed to "allow-for" misbehavior.
I'm all for improving any process, but not just to make a change for change's sake.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Not claiming any "superior intellect" but rather that forcing passengers off planes because they aren't willing to accept an $800 voucher is not very customer friendly. The fact that its seen as a "cost mitigation" strategy is part of the problem from where I sit.
my comment was to the proposed change you made and I offered as well ... not to what had actually happened. Surely that's evident and therefore your comment isn't helpful. Are you this kind of asset in your own place of business? 
When you suggest something should be done differently, is it to improve, or demonstrate one's own self-ideal/superior idea?
again ... AT THE TIME ... who thought there was a real potential with someone reacting in this way? And ... again ... when the policy is revised to accommodate misbehavior, the responsibility will fall into the crews' lap (which means the Captain) ...
not an improvement to the process, just passing the buck.
When you suggest something should be done differently, is it to improve, or demonstrate one's own self-ideal/superior idea?
again ... AT THE TIME ... who thought there was a real potential with someone reacting in this way? And ... again ... when the policy is revised to accommodate misbehavior, the responsibility will fall into the crews' lap (which means the Captain) ...
not an improvement to the process, just passing the buck.
I have been stunned to see the vast majority of people think this man did the right thing by resisting and are taking his side. Thank goodness for Hornfans, y'all were my last hope! Perhaps it is just their way of venting against all the horrors of flying wrapped up in one giant episode.
I have several friends that are pilots. They have patiently described the rules to me when I complain about delays. Like many of you, I have sat on sizzling tarmacs waiting for a new flight crew or pilot to arrive since any delay can oftentimes push the pilots or the crew over the very strict hours agreed upon by their unions. It sucks, but that is flying. It is the law. No if, ands, or buts. The crew had to be on the flight or the flight would have been cancelled.
I am appalled at the support this man has received. It seems like we have entered an era where complying with instructions is up for debate. The thing that really gets me is his profession. I mean, to hear a physician acted like a 6 year old blows my mind. It's like an attorney or a judge or some professional we put faith in acting like a jacka**. Getting dragged out of a plane as you are clutching the armrests is a professional way to act?
Also, United should be distancing themselves for the removal method. If I am seeing it correctly, it was some type of police or security team. All United seems to have done is call in the troops, as they have done on many occasions with an unruly passenger.
All I can say is, for everyone supporting him, how would you like to have an appointment with this guy next week?
I reminds me of the old George Carlin joke about physicians. "Somewhere tomorrow, the worst doctor in the US will be going to work. And someone will have an appointment with him." I wouldn't let this guy near my dog.
I have several friends that are pilots. They have patiently described the rules to me when I complain about delays. Like many of you, I have sat on sizzling tarmacs waiting for a new flight crew or pilot to arrive since any delay can oftentimes push the pilots or the crew over the very strict hours agreed upon by their unions. It sucks, but that is flying. It is the law. No if, ands, or buts. The crew had to be on the flight or the flight would have been cancelled.
I am appalled at the support this man has received. It seems like we have entered an era where complying with instructions is up for debate. The thing that really gets me is his profession. I mean, to hear a physician acted like a 6 year old blows my mind. It's like an attorney or a judge or some professional we put faith in acting like a jacka**. Getting dragged out of a plane as you are clutching the armrests is a professional way to act?
Also, United should be distancing themselves for the removal method. If I am seeing it correctly, it was some type of police or security team. All United seems to have done is call in the troops, as they have done on many occasions with an unruly passenger.
All I can say is, for everyone supporting him, how would you like to have an appointment with this guy next week?
I reminds me of the old George Carlin joke about physicians. "Somewhere tomorrow, the worst doctor in the US will be going to work. And someone will have an appointment with him." I wouldn't let this guy near my dog.
Like shaark said this is SOP in the airline industry and every airline does it. It just so happens this plane was the only one that got a crazy doctor on it. I've flown enough to have elite status on 3 major airlines and flown on nearly every airline and United is far better than most. But definitely not as good as the old Continental. Why do so many people have to have a 3 year old temper tantrum when they don't get their way?
Last week I had to go through Altanta after the airport had been shut down for 2 days due to weather. Some people had spent 2 nights in the airport and the Delta line to get rebooked was literally the length of the whole terminal, thousands of people. I was sure I would get bumped by people waiting 2 days, but since my original flight wasn't cancelled I wasn't and was very very thankful to only be delayed 4 hours. I didn't see anyone whinning or crying about the wait anywhere in the airport.
Like I said earlier, CS in the airline industry sucks in general, but United, or this regional carrier, didn't do anything the other airlines don't do and I'll take United before most other airlines.
Last week I had to go through Altanta after the airport had been shut down for 2 days due to weather. Some people had spent 2 nights in the airport and the Delta line to get rebooked was literally the length of the whole terminal, thousands of people. I was sure I would get bumped by people waiting 2 days, but since my original flight wasn't cancelled I wasn't and was very very thankful to only be delayed 4 hours. I didn't see anyone whinning or crying about the wait anywhere in the airport.
Like I said earlier, CS in the airline industry sucks in general, but United, or this regional carrier, didn't do anything the other airlines don't do and I'll take United before most other airlines.
He was chosen at random. I'm not saying airlines should be bumping people. They shouldn't be, but that's air travel. We know that going in, and the law as well as the contract the have with their customers allows them to do it when a flight is overbooked.
Also, on several occasions (with some exceptions), I've criticized black dudes who have fought with, run from, or otherwise been uncooperative with police officers and then gotten beat up or shot in the process. The reason why is that when a lawful order is given by a cop, you're supposed to obey and be cooperative. If you refuse, it's going to get ugly, and if you get physical with him, it's going to get very ugly. Well, this doctor basically acted the same way.
Nothing wrong with being mad at United. They definitely screwed up, but if the air marshal showed up, would you fight him? To me, that's where the passenger got out of line. It's a raw deal, but I don't think it's worth a legally justifiable ***-whipping and getting tossed in the slammer. I'd rather just take my $800 and get on another flight.
Not all and not even a majority, but many doctors have God complexes and simply think that the normal rules that apply to everybody shouldn't apply to them. This guy was obviously one of them.
There's a legal maximum that they can offer. I think it's absurd, but that's the law.
Most of the time, these issues are dealt with before boarding, because the airline knows who checks in and therefore who's actually getting on the plane. And usually they know how to count. If it gets dealt with in the cabin, then somebody screwed up.
But like I said, that doesn't justify throwing a fit and getting physical. If Chick Fil A puts pickles on my sandwich when I ask them not to, I get a new sandwich. I don't get to curb stomp the guy who made it wrong.
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Everyone should keep in mind the fact that half of the MDs graduated in the bottom half of their class. Ask a few questions and you might realize it is time to find another physician- especially if they resist answering or act offended.
Very interesting. What if he would have been trying to get to a loved one who was about to die? As someone who travels often to meetings I cannot miss, the airline should find a way to get volunteers without bloody force. I cannot believe any of you want to support that idiotic behavior. Some of you could be CEO of United based upon your views though.
I don't think anyone is saying they like the behavior, but it is SOP for every airline now days. It happens thousands of times every day, it's just extremely rare they get a crazy doctor on the plane. And quite honestly, if they weren't overbooking they probably wouldn't be making a profit and there wouldn't any airlines. A lot of people have no clue what it takes to run a business and how razor thin margins are.
You agree to a contract when you purchase your ticket. If you don't like it don't purchase a ticket and if you don't read the contract accept responsibility for it. It's not always somebody else's fault.
I find it more effective to play the "Senator" card.
Telling the truth is not character assassination. It is character revealing.
In other words, you are saying we should ignore the pattern of this guy's personal actions which indicate a prevailing attitude that contributes to his unhappy circumstances. We are to ignore the tendency of this guy trying to satisfy his own desires in the easiest way regardless of its effect on others, whether he was illegally trading drugs for sex, or holding up a plane load of people because he would not comply with a legal request. You believe he is justified in acting in a completely shameless, uncivilized manner because he didn't get "his way" despite "his way" being in conflict with the law. Criminals have the same attitude.
These viral incidents seem to keep happening to United. They just seem to have an ******* culture pervasive throughout the organization even up to the CEO. They could have handled this in much better ways especially considering that they have allowed all the passengers to board the freaking plane.
I heard the offer was $800 but no one took it. So it means the compensation offer was not enough. Offer $1500 then $2000 and so on. Eventually you will get volunteers.
United is lucky to be in an oligopoly. Boycotting airlines is not going to be effective. Most people don't fly because they choose to. If United keeps behaving like ******** then public outcry may result in some government action but other than that I don't see much else happening.
I heard the offer was $800 but no one took it. So it means the compensation offer was not enough. Offer $1500 then $2000 and so on. Eventually you will get volunteers.
United is lucky to be in an oligopoly. Boycotting airlines is not going to be effective. Most people don't fly because they choose to. If United keeps behaving like ******** then public outcry may result in some government action but other than that I don't see much else happening.
Right. It is United's fault that they complied with the law, and the passenger acting like a two year old is blameless. All people fly because they choose to. Nobody is forcibly putting people on airplanes.
I'm tall -- not like football linemen or basketball players, but at 6'2" my knees are pretty close or touching the seat in front in coach class. I'd say something to a person leaning back and maybe even slow their descent with my arms. But I'd stop before doing anything interesting enough to put on social media.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
Both of these basically speak to culture. If your customer service policy ends with "enforce the rule," then you haven't given your employees enough leeway to handle situations in a way that doesn't end up on YouTube.
I do think that it's easier to criticize this in retrospect because who thinks that a random guy is going to behave this way when the air marshal shows up and tells him to leave. That's just not something you expect to escalate. But the point of this is first, that you just have to factor in crazy people in today's culture. Second, you have to know that if there's a way to solve an issue before it starts to involve multiple uniformed people coming onto the airplane, you either put a policy in place that explains exactly how you want something handled, or you hire people that are smart enough, perceptive enough, and care enough about people that they won't let it go this far. And then you empower them to solve problems.
Ideally someone should have figured out a way to solve this - the question is are they limited by policy or internal training from doing that? Why didn't they raise the offer more? Why didn't they try harder to find someone else? Why didn't they figure out if there was another way to get their pilots where they needed to go? (Assuming there was a way that would have had them prepared to fly a plane upon arrival.)
I've been on plenty of flights when the negotiations are ongoing during the boarding process, although I'm not sure whether I've ever seen one where it happened AFTER the process started. This may be a situation where their process needs some work - how do you not know the travel status of your pilots that close to the time they need to leave? it sounds like this either caught them off-guard, or they're so prepared to toss people off the plane that they just didn't feel the need to be careful about trying to avoid it.
Does anyone know why this is in place? I'm sure it has something to do with price integrity, or the idea that the airline shouldn't be "held for ransom" by the person who keeps holding out for more. You have to know that the bidding doesn't go on forever. My assumption then is that this is something the airlines lobbied to enact.
So the other 3 passengers who took their voucher and deplaned without incident are just sheeple in your opinion?
Most of the things people bring up that United *should* have done are driven by hindsight. This is not the first or even the 100th time that this airline had to bump somebody. It usually goes without incident because most people are adults and can act responsibly.
Think of the flight crew, they are just doing what they are told, and what they are told is being driven, more than a little bit, by federal law. Once you have gone down this road, of course expecting it to go just like it does the other 99 times, maybe some grumbling but everyone deplanes as requested and moves on, you cannot then go back and do it all over again. You've already had the computer pick 4 people, 3 of them get off with no problem, but this guy wants to make a scene. If he gets off the plane, as he did, and then runs back on, at that point you have NO CHOICE but to call in security.
I am so glad to hear that there are responsible adults on this board who feel about this as I do so the world is not lost. United is getting the shaft on this deal, IMO.
Poor United. I guess expecting a 37 billion dollar per year transportation company to figure out a better way to solve a problem is too much to ask. I once was a huge fan and top tier customer of Continental. The customer service has changed dramatically since merging with United and not for the better.
They lost me after making me stay in Utah for an additional 8 hours even though a departing flight had plenty of empty seats. Only way I could get on was an additional $1,300 in fare.
Keep crying for United.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I wasn't aware there was a legal maximum. If so, I think we've found a regulation that can be removed.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
There is a subset of passengers that are hoping to get bumped and receive a voucher. There is a woman that works on my team that openly hopes for this scenario every time she travels for work. If leaving on a Sunday for a Monday meeting, she'll choose an earlier flight than necessary in hopes of getting bumped to the next flight. In this case, it doesn't appear that anyone on the flight fell into that group.
The UA CEO said these 4 passengers were selected randomly. Shaark claims it's not random but rather an algorithm based on the ticket price, no checked luggage, etc. I tend to believe Shaark more than the UA CEO. Does anyone know the decision matrix? If I check a bag can I ensure I don't get bumped?
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