Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Trench war in the Donbass. How the Ukraine army uses WWI tactics to defend against attack.
Ukraine updates
- Thread starter OUBubba
- Start date
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Once again, you've been lied to. Just like with Afghanistan, with Libya, with Syria, and Iraq before that. And you'll be lied to again. And you will fall for the lies as you always do.
Quick summary over the past few days.
1. Ukrainian army being destroyed in the Donbass. Massive casualties.
In Stunning Shift, WaPo Admits Catastrophic-Conditions, Collapsing-Morale Of Ukraine Front-Line Forces | ZeroHedge
2. WEF meeting in Davos.
The story of Davos 2022 in a nutshell
3. May 24th, Kissinger addresses Davos stating Ukraine must make concessions and talk to Russia within the next two days or the situation becomes untenable.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/24/henry-kissinger-ukraine-russia-territory-davos/
4. May 25th, Zelensky aide tells Kissinger to Go F**k himself.
‘Go f**k yourselves’, Zelensky aide tells Western officials
5. May 26th, Zelensky on Wednesday said he would not heed to “those who are in a hurry for another meeting with the dictator,” in a reference to Putin.
Zelensky rips Kissinger over suggestion Ukraine cede territory to Russia | The Hill
6. May 27th, Zelensky says Ukraine needs to face reality and needs to talk to Russia.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...s-to-face-reality-and-talk-to-putin-zelenskiy
Quick summary over the past few days.
1. Ukrainian army being destroyed in the Donbass. Massive casualties.
In Stunning Shift, WaPo Admits Catastrophic-Conditions, Collapsing-Morale Of Ukraine Front-Line Forces | ZeroHedge
2. WEF meeting in Davos.
The story of Davos 2022 in a nutshell
3. May 24th, Kissinger addresses Davos stating Ukraine must make concessions and talk to Russia within the next two days or the situation becomes untenable.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/24/henry-kissinger-ukraine-russia-territory-davos/
4. May 25th, Zelensky aide tells Kissinger to Go F**k himself.
‘Go f**k yourselves’, Zelensky aide tells Western officials
5. May 26th, Zelensky on Wednesday said he would not heed to “those who are in a hurry for another meeting with the dictator,” in a reference to Putin.
Zelensky rips Kissinger over suggestion Ukraine cede territory to Russia | The Hill
6. May 27th, Zelensky says Ukraine needs to face reality and needs to talk to Russia.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...s-to-face-reality-and-talk-to-putin-zelenskiy
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
When over 20% of your territory is now occupied by the invader, your army is losing hundreds of men per day, and the currency is being replaced by the Ruble in the towns and cities within that territory, I don't know how anyone can say you are winning.
Based on the limited info I’ve found, it looks like it’s been a good week for Team Z in the East and in the South. However well they bounce back from early war defeats, this war is likely a long, long way from over.
Some say they’ve got to ‘hurry up and win’ before their economic and internal issues have gone too far down the drain. Also, Ukraine will soon be bringing in artillery of equal or better quality to what Russia has. Of course, Russia has enormous quantities of artillery and blasting the crap out of everything has been Russia’s main strategy since WW2. That SOB—the “butcher of Syria”—is a nasty dude, but he has a track record of competence, and patience, and of blowing up anything and everything in Russia’s way. Russia also apparently faces recruitment and conscription issues. If this drags on, the Russian people may turn against the war and Putin.
Some say they’ve got to ‘hurry up and win’ before their economic and internal issues have gone too far down the drain. Also, Ukraine will soon be bringing in artillery of equal or better quality to what Russia has. Of course, Russia has enormous quantities of artillery and blasting the crap out of everything has been Russia’s main strategy since WW2. That SOB—the “butcher of Syria”—is a nasty dude, but he has a track record of competence, and patience, and of blowing up anything and everything in Russia’s way. Russia also apparently faces recruitment and conscription issues. If this drags on, the Russian people may turn against the war and Putin.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
What should really happen is that the US should encourage Ukraine and Russia to negotiate peace. Ukraine loses less life. Russia stops before it gets worse for them.
If Ukraine continues to fight both Russia and Ukraine will be drained of men and capital to ruin of both of them. The US regime will love it. They get a more complete victory. But the pile of bodies is much higher. Inflation steals millions and billions from American citizens. Russian liberals give up criticizing their own corrupt government because they know the West will never help them. They turn into more hard core fascists.
If Ukraine continues to fight both Russia and Ukraine will be drained of men and capital to ruin of both of them. The US regime will love it. They get a more complete victory. But the pile of bodies is much higher. Inflation steals millions and billions from American citizens. Russian liberals give up criticizing their own corrupt government because they know the West will never help them. They turn into more hard core fascists.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Doubt it. What has fundamentally changed? Extra supplies haven't arrived there, I don't think. There have been consistent reports saying things like this through the whole conflict. So I am not sure these are reliable.
Battle of Sievierodonetsk.
Per Denys Davydov, in the East there’s been a big pitched battle underway for control of the city of Sievierodonetsk. Street to street fighting continues. Russia indiscriminately blasted much of the city with artillery before infantry entered. Team Z has been slowly winning this one and now has control of the airport area. But Ukraine has withdrawn from most of the residential area and are now concentrated in an immense industrial complex in the West of town. Meanwhile, Ukraine is able to provide and direct long range artillery support from higher elevations in the West and may have stalemated this battle. Russia has concentrated lots of forces here and are pouring them into the city. It is abundantly clear Team Z really, really wants this city. It’s one of the major industrial areas in Ukraine.
Per Denys Davydov, in the East there’s been a big pitched battle underway for control of the city of Sievierodonetsk. Street to street fighting continues. Russia indiscriminately blasted much of the city with artillery before infantry entered. Team Z has been slowly winning this one and now has control of the airport area. But Ukraine has withdrawn from most of the residential area and are now concentrated in an immense industrial complex in the West of town. Meanwhile, Ukraine is able to provide and direct long range artillery support from higher elevations in the West and may have stalemated this battle. Russia has concentrated lots of forces here and are pouring them into the city. It is abundantly clear Team Z really, really wants this city. It’s one of the major industrial areas in Ukraine.
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Updates on the big battle in Sievierodonetsk:
(basically, Russia has blasted the city to smithereens and is street fighting block-to-block; Sounds like Russia has to 'destroy them in order to save them...'
)
Sievierodonetsk mayor says Russian forces seize half of city
Luhansk governor says Russia now controls 70% of Sievierodonetsk
Russians, Ukrainians fight block by block in eastern city
Russian forces in a “frenzied push” have seized half of Sievierodonetsk, the eastern Ukrainian city that is key to Moscow’s efforts to complete the capture of the industrial Donbas region, the mayor said Tuesday.
“The city is essentially being destroyed ruthlessly block by block,” Oleksandr Striuk said. He said heavy street fighting continued and artillery barrages threatened the lives of the estimated 13,000 civilians still sheltering in the ruined city that once was home to more than 100,000.
A Russian airstrike on Sievierodonetsk hit a tank of nitric acid at a chemical factory, causing a huge leak of fumes, according to Serhiy Haidai, governor of the Luhansk region. He posted a picture of a big cloud hanging over the city and urged residents to stay inside and wear gas masks or improvised ones.
“Civilians are dying from direct strikes, from fragmentation wounds and under the rubble of destroyed buildings, since most of the inhabitants are hiding in basements and shelters,”
(basically, Russia has blasted the city to smithereens and is street fighting block-to-block; Sounds like Russia has to 'destroy them in order to save them...'
)Sievierodonetsk mayor says Russian forces seize half of city
Luhansk governor says Russia now controls 70% of Sievierodonetsk
Russians, Ukrainians fight block by block in eastern city
Russian forces in a “frenzied push” have seized half of Sievierodonetsk, the eastern Ukrainian city that is key to Moscow’s efforts to complete the capture of the industrial Donbas region, the mayor said Tuesday.
“The city is essentially being destroyed ruthlessly block by block,” Oleksandr Striuk said. He said heavy street fighting continued and artillery barrages threatened the lives of the estimated 13,000 civilians still sheltering in the ruined city that once was home to more than 100,000.
A Russian airstrike on Sievierodonetsk hit a tank of nitric acid at a chemical factory, causing a huge leak of fumes, according to Serhiy Haidai, governor of the Luhansk region. He posted a picture of a big cloud hanging over the city and urged residents to stay inside and wear gas masks or improvised ones.
“Civilians are dying from direct strikes, from fragmentation wounds and under the rubble of destroyed buildings, since most of the inhabitants are hiding in basements and shelters,”
Russians, Ukrainians fight block by block in eastern city
And here's likely why Team Z is putting so much into capturing Sievierodonetsk and doing so right now:
Military analysts described the fight for Sievierodonetsk as part of a race against time for the Kremlin. The city is important to Russian efforts to quickly complete the capture of the eastern industrial region of the Donbas before more Western arms arrive to bolster Ukraine’s defense. Moscow-backed separatists already held territory in the region and have been fighting Ukrainian troops for eight years.
“The Kremlin has reckoned that it can’t afford to waste time and should use the last chance to extend the separatist-controlled territory because the arrival of Western weapons in Ukraine could make it impossible,” Ukrainian military analyst Oleh Zhdanov said.
And here's likely why Team Z is putting so much into capturing Sievierodonetsk and doing so right now:
Military analysts described the fight for Sievierodonetsk as part of a race against time for the Kremlin. The city is important to Russian efforts to quickly complete the capture of the eastern industrial region of the Donbas before more Western arms arrive to bolster Ukraine’s defense. Moscow-backed separatists already held territory in the region and have been fighting Ukrainian troops for eight years.
“The Kremlin has reckoned that it can’t afford to waste time and should use the last chance to extend the separatist-controlled territory because the arrival of Western weapons in Ukraine could make it impossible,” Ukrainian military analyst Oleh Zhdanov said.
Here's General Alexander Dvornikov--the "Butcher of Aleppo" aka the "Butcher of Syria" who is now spearheading Russia's turning of the City of Sievierodonetsk into rubble. He's a real SOB, indiscriminately blasts civilians, and is not the sort you'd invite to a dinner party, but he appears to be relatively competent (compared to the other Russian "leaders" in their sorry war effort up to this point) and has a winning track record.
Denys Davydov is reporting today some U wins North of Kharkiv, pushing Team Z back almost to the Russian border. He doesn’t sugar coat anything though. He says Russia is winning in Sievierodonetsk and making some significant advances and tactical victories in the surrounding region.
U has some high ground and artillery to the West and some well dug in lines and defenses to the West of Sievierodonetsk, making it unlikely R will be able to go much further any time soon. Plus U has a fair number of soldiers in the Sievierodonetsk industrial area. This presents a bit of a quandary for R in that, while they don’t hesitate to blow up the City, they may want to save the chemical plants, etc.—that’s some valuable industry there. We’ll likely soon see what R will do. Either way, it won’t be a cakewalk for Team Z in that industrial zone.
Slightly West of Sievierodonetsk is the City of Lysychansk—to take that city, R will have to cross a river and assault up a hill/bluff. Think Fredericksburg in our Civil War—that’s the one that got Union General Burnside “re-assigned” to non-combat leadership duties by President Lincoln. Real good for the defenders.
U has some high ground and artillery to the West and some well dug in lines and defenses to the West of Sievierodonetsk, making it unlikely R will be able to go much further any time soon. Plus U has a fair number of soldiers in the Sievierodonetsk industrial area. This presents a bit of a quandary for R in that, while they don’t hesitate to blow up the City, they may want to save the chemical plants, etc.—that’s some valuable industry there. We’ll likely soon see what R will do. Either way, it won’t be a cakewalk for Team Z in that industrial zone.
Slightly West of Sievierodonetsk is the City of Lysychansk—to take that city, R will have to cross a river and assault up a hill/bluff. Think Fredericksburg in our Civil War—that’s the one that got Union General Burnside “re-assigned” to non-combat leadership duties by President Lincoln. Real good for the defenders.
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Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Putin on inflation and grain exports.
Vladimir Putin: Interview with Rossiya TV | The Vineyard of the Saker
Vladimir Putin: Interview with Rossiya TV | The Vineyard of the Saker
Per Denys Davydov:
Surprising news in the big battle of Sievierodonetsk—U launched a counterattack in the streets and have retaken most of the rubbled out city. Russia still holds a portion of the city, but they have mostly withdrawn. R troop movements indicate a likely upcoming second R attack and attempt to take (and this time hold—if possible) the city. U artillery on the high ground to the West is making a difference.
Meanwhile, R is trying a pinchers move to the North and South of Sievierodonetsk and Lysychansk (which is just to the West across the river by the high ground). Lots of fighting in this sector. This appears to be the current main focus of the war. R has now pushed to within 15km of Lysychansk in their Southern pincher. It’s all still in doubt in this sector of the war.
Surprising news in the big battle of Sievierodonetsk—U launched a counterattack in the streets and have retaken most of the rubbled out city. Russia still holds a portion of the city, but they have mostly withdrawn. R troop movements indicate a likely upcoming second R attack and attempt to take (and this time hold—if possible) the city. U artillery on the high ground to the West is making a difference.
Meanwhile, R is trying a pinchers move to the North and South of Sievierodonetsk and Lysychansk (which is just to the West across the river by the high ground). Lots of fighting in this sector. This appears to be the current main focus of the war. R has now pushed to within 15km of Lysychansk in their Southern pincher. It’s all still in doubt in this sector of the war.
Reports are indicating that R has gone through many of their available capable professional soldiers in the theater. Now they’re mostly sending in their B team, C team, and D team reservists—many armed with outdated bolt action rifles and with minimal training. Order and discipline are lacking. Mini mutinies are occurring.
Other reports reveal this additional problem: in the two breakaway “republics”, R set it up so that in order to get a govt job, you had to also be in the reserves. R has activated all these postal workers, etc to fight their stupid war. They’re not good military men, they absolutely don’t want to be part of it, they feel like they’ve been kidnapped or Shanghai’ed. They’re not a bunch of guys you’d expect much success from …
Other reports reveal this additional problem: in the two breakaway “republics”, R set it up so that in order to get a govt job, you had to also be in the reserves. R has activated all these postal workers, etc to fight their stupid war. They’re not good military men, they absolutely don’t want to be part of it, they feel like they’ve been kidnapped or Shanghai’ed. They’re not a bunch of guys you’d expect much success from …
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Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Could be a big deal and the beginning of an escalation.
Lithuania comments on blockade of Russia’s Kaliningrad
Lithuania comments on blockade of Russia’s Kaliningrad
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Idiots like Max Boot are why we are in the predicament we are.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Talk from Col Douglas MacGregor on how the war is going and how it is being reported.
6/17/22 Douglas Macgregor on the Lies Getting Ukrainians Killed - The Scott Horton Show
6/17/22 Douglas Macgregor on the Lies Getting Ukrainians Killed - The Scott Horton Show
Slightly old news, but Russia has won the big battle for Sievierodonetsk. This was a big one for the control of Eastern Ukraine. Classic Russian tactics: Massive artillery and rocket barrages followed by hordes of infantry advancing through the rubble.
And not to be flippant, but since this is a sports board…
Russia has evened the score. After Russia surprisingly getting their butts kicked early on, it’s now 7-7 at the end of the first quarter and Team Z has captured the momentum. Hope all our artillery and other armaments help Ukraine. Looks like they’re gonna need it.
And not to be flippant, but since this is a sports board…
Russia has evened the score. After Russia surprisingly getting their butts kicked early on, it’s now 7-7 at the end of the first quarter and Team Z has captured the momentum. Hope all our artillery and other armaments help Ukraine. Looks like they’re gonna need it.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
You are very mistaken. Russia is very much ahead. They aren't making fast progress, but they are making slow if not steady progress in the East and South. One statistic says Ukraine has lost a very large chunk of their men already and it will be difficult to get the resources from Western Ukraine over to the theater of battle. Looking very bad for the home team. They need to change course.
We’ll see how it plays out. On big question is if Russia continues to have success, do they try to keep pressing West, or do they stop and consolidate—with a goal to negotiate a peace where they might keep the Eastern regions under their control? Don’t count Ukraine out.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Chop, there's a lot to unpack. Let's begin with the tie game analogy. As it stands, Ukraine has lost around 20%+ of its geography. This includes the coast with the exception of Odessa which will come under seize eventually. So Ukraine will no longer have access to the sea. Forget about taking a vacation to the beach because it will be Russian. Also, the parts of Ukraine which will likely be annexed by Russia are responsible for close to 80% of the generated GDP. This offshore is rich in gas, the eastern land had agriculture, mines, minerals, and an industry base. Even now, Ukraine isn't sovereign. The US taxpayer is funding the entire government; salaries, pensions, military, etc.
No matter what happens with Ukraine, the US Neocons remain at war with Russia. As long as weapons continue to be shipped into the country, the Russians will march westward, destroy more infrastructure, and take more land if they want it. If they don't, they will install puppet governments. And this is merely the military aspect of what's happening.
Economically, the backfire resulting from massive sanctioning is systematically dismantling the European standard of living and industrial base. Not only that, but country after country (Africa, Latin America - even Mexico) is beginning to align with China/Russia and the new economic/monetary/payment system under development. While the game may be in the first quarter in terms of the conflict between Russia and the West, the latter has a shallow bench and the starters are playing injured without a training staff. And as far as the coaching staff, Russia has Vince Lombardi and the West has ....well I can't think of a coach poor enough to make an analogy.
No matter what happens with Ukraine, the US Neocons remain at war with Russia. As long as weapons continue to be shipped into the country, the Russians will march westward, destroy more infrastructure, and take more land if they want it. If they don't, they will install puppet governments. And this is merely the military aspect of what's happening.
Economically, the backfire resulting from massive sanctioning is systematically dismantling the European standard of living and industrial base. Not only that, but country after country (Africa, Latin America - even Mexico) is beginning to align with China/Russia and the new economic/monetary/payment system under development. While the game may be in the first quarter in terms of the conflict between Russia and the West, the latter has a shallow bench and the starters are playing injured without a training staff. And as far as the coaching staff, Russia has Vince Lombardi and the West has ....well I can't think of a coach poor enough to make an analogy.
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