UK may vote to leave the European Union

OUBubba said:
I see your points Deez. Is there any credence to the argument that the brexit campaign was tampered with and the promises made are ludicrous. Therefore, the legislators are not taking an action that will harm the UK?
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What do you mean by "tampered with?" O haven't heard that.
 
EU referendum won through fraud, whistleblower tells MPs

Tampered was probably a poor use of words. I'd call the vote questionable. It was really similar to the active measures utilized in the 2016 election here and that we're going to see next year. Actions that the current administration not only is not trying to stop but is encouraging.

Republicans Are Doing a Good Job Blocking Efforts to Fight Russian Meddling in 2020

Trump’s alleged attempts to force Ukraine to meddle in 2020 election being investigated
 
It would be nice if it was detailed exactly how Russia is meddling.
If that were known steps could be taken. Just to say Russia is trying to interfere with infrastructure doesn't give local election people anything to work with.
 
OUBubba said:
EU referendum won through fraud, whistleblower tells MPs

Tampered was probably a poor use of words. I'd call the vote questionable. It was really similar to the active measures utilized in the 2016 election here and that we're going to see next year. Actions that the current administration not only is not trying to stop but is encouraging.

Republicans Are Doing a Good Job Blocking Efforts to Fight Russian Meddling in 2020

Trump’s alleged attempts to force Ukraine to meddle in 2020 election being investigated
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Barry, this is the first I've heard of this. If there was anything to it, I presume the Remain crowd would be making an issue of it rather than full-blown sabotage. Treason is usually a last resort, not a first.
 
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Given that fact and the reality that UK citizens now get to see what a Brexit looks like
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Well, they aren't getting to see what one looks like with a loyal opposition giving a genuine effort to make the best of a situation where they didn't get their way, they are getting to see what an undermined and sabotaged Brexit looks like.
 
Statalyzer said:
Well, they aren't getting to see what one looks like with a loyal opposition giving a genuine effort to make the best of a situation where they didn't get their way, they are getting to see what an undermined and sabotaged Brexit looks like.
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What it shows is that their loyalty is to the EU rather than to the UK. It's the difference between opposing a war (which is defensible) and actively helping the enemy win the war (which is not).

As I've indicated before, there is a legitimate argument to remain. I don't buy it, but it's a reasonable position. There's an argument that the UK should accept the EU-dictated Brexit terms that Theresa May pitched, though I think this is the weakest argument. However, there isn't a legitimate argument to undermine the UK's bargaining power by arbitrarily asking for an extension when they've made it clear that they're not going to work with you. That's just raw sabotage and disloyalty. 150 years ago, they'd hang for something like this.
 
Not sure if this is overly offensive?
Are there white-progressives in the US offended on behalf of Krauts?
(probably)

EGXKZyDWwAI_n2c.jpg
 
Johnson announced he and the EU reached a deal. Of course May also reached a deal a three times.

The real challenge now starts, getting British Parliament approval. As you can see from Nigel above, the deal will attacked from the right and most assuredly the Labour Party (left) will also follow suit.
 
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Details of the deal are emerging.

1. Northern Ireland remains part of EU rules. Analysis: This takes the concern of an Irish customs border with Northern Ireland off the table. Conservatives are already up in arms over the "cleaving" of Northern Ireland from Brexit.

2. Northern Ireland will have it's own Brexit/Remain vote.

3. Britain leaves the EU in 2020 (end) which is a more aggressive timeline thsn May negotiated.
 
Today the House of Commons ( ;) for Horn6721) chose to forego a straight up/down vote on Boris' Brexit plan. The voted 322-306 for the Letwin amendment which forces Parliament to approve the full legislation before approving Brexit. More importantly, it forces the PM to request a Brexit extension from the EU by 11pm GMT tonight.

Boris was asking Parliament to approve his Brexit plan before reading any details. Should the details cause concerns or delays he could force a no deal Brexit. This takes that course of action off the table which is what some Pro-Brexit anti-crashout conservatives were concerned about.

Obviously debating the details of the legislation complicates the process, not unlike why the Democrats gave little time for debate on ACA legislation between the publishing of the bill and vote.

It's entirely possible that many of the conservatives and some Labor MPs will support Boris' deal when it finally comes to a vote.
 
The point is, the UK call themselves a democracy, they have a vote. The people choose. Doesn't mean everybody agrees. But 52% said leave.

Are you a democracy or not? You put this up to a democratic choice. There isn't a constitutional or other law that can guide this the other way.
 
LongestHorn said:
Research finds majority of both leave and remain voters feel violence acceptable to get outcome they support
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The headline is a bit exaggerated. As the article states, "The survey did not imply that the responder would conduct the violence themselves or specify that the violence would be severe or even be carried out by those on the same political side as them."

Think about that. Suppose some goofball assassinates a MP. Why would that mean the UK should change its mind on Brexit? Somebody did assassinate JFK. Should the US have changed course based on that? I think very few weeks say Yes.
 
Monahorns said:
The point is, the UK call themselves a democracy, they have a vote. The people choose. Doesn't mean everybody agrees. But 52% said leave.

Are you a democracy or not? You put this up to a democratic choice. There isn't a constitutional or other law that can guide this the other way.
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Yep. I didn't favor holding the referendum, because government by referendum is a stupid way to run a country. However, of you're going to hold a referendum, you have to be willing to live with its outcome even if it's not the outcome you want. Nothing is worse than holding a referendum and then ignoring it, or worse, sabotaging it.
 
Mr D
What does this mean?
"
In a massive boost to Prime Minister Boris Johnson-led British Conservatives, Nigel Farage has pulled hundreds of Brexit Party candidates ahead of the December 12 election. The Brexit Party will not field candidates in all 317 seats that the ruling Conservative party won in the last general election.

“The Brexit party will not contest the 317 seats the Conservatives won at the last election,” Farage said. “We will concentrate our total effort into all the seats that are held by the Labour party, who have completely broken their manifesto pledge in 2017 to respect the result of the referendum, and we will also take on the rest of the remainer parties. We will stand up and fight them all.”


Farage, who announced last week that he was not standing for election himself, had been campaigning to get Brexit Party candidates elected to the next parliament. After today’s announcement, he is expected to concentrate on pro-EU lawmakers from the Liberal Democrats and the Labour party contesting from vulnerable seats.

British newspaper The Independent reported the Brexit Party leader’s unexpected climbdown:

Nigel Farage has sensationally backed down on his threat to stand Brexit Party general election candidates in every constituency across Britain, announcing the party will not fight the 317 seats won by Tories in 2017.

The move, which he termed a “unilateral Leave alliance”, represents a massive boost for Boris Johnson’s Conservatives in the battle for the 12 December general election, removing the danger that they might lose seats by splitting the pro-Brexit vote. However it could mean Tories face a tough battle to pick up Labour-held seats, where traditional supporters of Jeremy Corbyn’s party who support Leave will have the option of voting for the Brexit Party.

Responding to the announcement, Mr Johnson told Sky News he had “absolutely not” done a deal with Farage, adding: “I’m glad that there is a recognition that there is only one way to get Brexit done and that is to vote for us and to vote for the Conservatives.”
UK Election: Nigel Farage Withdraws Hundreds of Candidates; Move to Boost PM Johnson's Conservatives
 
Horn6721 said:
Mr D
What does this mean?
"
In a massive boost to Prime Minister Boris Johnson-led British Conservatives, Nigel Farage has pulled hundreds of Brexit Party candidates ahead of the December 12 election. The Brexit Party will not field candidates in all 317 seats that the ruling Conservative party won in the last general election.

“The Brexit party will not contest the 317 seats the Conservatives won at the last election,” Farage said. “We will concentrate our total effort into all the seats that are held by the Labour party, who have completely broken their manifesto pledge in 2017 to respect the result of the referendum, and we will also take on the rest of the remainer parties. We will stand up and fight them all.”


Farage, who announced last week that he was not standing for election himself, had been campaigning to get Brexit Party candidates elected to the next parliament. After today’s announcement, he is expected to concentrate on pro-EU lawmakers from the Liberal Democrats and the Labour party contesting from vulnerable seats.

British newspaper The Independent reported the Brexit Party leader’s unexpected climbdown:

Nigel Farage has sensationally backed down on his threat to stand Brexit Party general election candidates in every constituency across Britain, announcing the party will not fight the 317 seats won by Tories in 2017.

The move, which he termed a “unilateral Leave alliance”, represents a massive boost for Boris Johnson’s Conservatives in the battle for the 12 December general election, removing the danger that they might lose seats by splitting the pro-Brexit vote. However it could mean Tories face a tough battle to pick up Labour-held seats, where traditional supporters of Jeremy Corbyn’s party who support Leave will have the option of voting for the Brexit Party.

Responding to the announcement, Mr Johnson told Sky News he had “absolutely not” done a deal with Farage, adding: “I’m glad that there is a recognition that there is only one way to get Brexit done and that is to vote for us and to vote for the Conservatives.”
UK Election: Nigel Farage Withdraws Hundreds of Candidates; Move to Boost PM Johnson's Conservatives
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It means Nigel doesn't want to put the Tories in a worse position by challenging their incumbents. Tacitly, it means he's willing to take Johnson's Brexit deal if necessary.
 
So this is one of the Brexit Party's candidates (named Michelle Dewberry) running in Northern England.

Just sayin'. . .

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You can definitely do a lot worse.
 
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