Trump's Team

[Mr. Deez]

Voucher/tax credits starve the public school system of resources/funding.

It depends on how it's structured. Most voucher programs only send the variable costs to the private school. In other words, on a per-pupil basis, the public schools usually come out money ahead. However, that doesn't satisfy the voucher opposition. They hate it anyway.

Charter Schools have mixed success.

In areas where we have charter schools (which aren't the same as a voucher program), the public schools usually don't have mixed success. They're usually terrible. Very rarely is a kid worse off in a charter school.

Of course, choosing your students is something the public schools don't have the benefit of.

You don't have to give participating private schools that option either.

Just to be clear, I'm not a supporter of a national voucher program. That should be a state's prerogative. However, states with poor performing public schools should give kids a choice. They shouldn't be screwed.

 

[Seattle Husker]

It depends on how it's structured. Most voucher programs only send the variable costs to the private school. In other words, on a per-pupil basis, the public schools usually come out money ahead. However, that doesn't satisfy the voucher opposition. They hate it anyway.

I'd be curious what you define as "variable costs". Clearly building costs, materials, etc. wouldn't be in that bucket. What about teachers? The statistic that most strongly correlates to student success (outside of socio-economic status) is class size. Any changes that adversely impacts that will work against student success in public schools.

In areas where we have charter schools (which aren't the same as a voucher program), the public schools usually don't have mixed success. They're usually terrible. Very rarely is a kid worse off in a charter school.

There are some successful charter schools but equally as many failures. I don't have time to track down the Michigan data but looking only at the Detroit area Charter schools overall had no more success than public schools. Individual schools may be exceeding but you get that in individual public schools too. I'm not defending under-performing public schools. Clearly we need to fix that but I also believe that's a function of the socio-economic status of the students (and quality of the parents by proxy). Removing funding from public schools may help the individual student moving to the charter school but dooms the nonperforming school to becoming a prison. Of course, some might argue they are already there.

 

[militaryhorn]

The more pressing issue with schools is not money. We have to get out of this group think that every student is equal when it comes to learning.

Once kids are out of grade school, we should be honing their strong suits instead of having them all learn the same stuff. Have them take an aptitude test and question them on what interest them. Get the results and design their studies around their areas of interest and tested abilities.

Some are more geared towards college education and some are more geared towards a trade or craft.

I am a good example. I could easily get a college degree but I loath school and had no desire to go to college. Instead, I choose the military where I served 22 years and retired. Now I have a job that requires only a high school diploma and I make around $125K a year between my current job and my military pension. So, you can't tell me that you can't have a good income on a high school education.

The whole system needs revamping not more money thrown at it or different avenues to attend.

 

[Joe Fan]

Procedure vote advanced Sessions 53-45. Mitch stepped up with cloture

Sessions getting confirmed before Devos (and others) is a sign that Mitch has enough votes to get her through without Sessions vote.

Mnuchin ADVANCED 51-49 in a squeaker -- with Lisa Ann Murkowski (ALK) putting him over the top

Summary -- Sessions, Price, and Mnuchin all ADVANCED

Not sure if thats it for the day or not

 

[Joe Fan]

Californians on the street asked what they thought about Donald Trump's decision to nominate Rob Kardashian to the Supreme Court .....

 

[Horn6721]

Military horn
Thank you for your long service.
To your point I was talking to my plumber (cuz talking is ALL I can do regarding plumbing). He was telling me in a few years there will be a shortage of plumbet electricians etc. Kids today think they need a degree and to sit in an office.
I know about how much my plumber makes and it rivals many lawyers.
Plus he sets his own hours and does not worry about meeting a billable quota.
So your point is a good one. Not likely to be heard though.

 

[Joe Fan]

....Summary -- Sessions, Price, and Mnuchin all ADVANCED
Not sure if thats it for the day or not

That is it for today.
Tomorrow sets up with some rather juicy CONFIRMATION VOTES

 

[Joe Fan]

Trump named Gina Haspel to be the deputy director of the CIA, second in command to Pompeo. She is either the first or second woman in this high of a position at the CIA. This position is not subject to Senate confirmation.

 

[Joe Fan]

...Sessions getting confirmed before Devos (and others) is a sign that Mitch has enough votes to get her through without Sessions vote......

The DeVos stuff is all teachers unions

 

[Joe Fan]

The DeVos filibuster was broken in an unusual early morning vote today 52-48

"A confirmation vote could happen as early as Monday morning, but leadership likely will not rush one until the whip count is certain." Arcane Senate rules can require a 30-hour window between the procedural vote and the final vote

DeVos is the only Cabinet pick who is in danger of not eventually being confirmed due to party defections. That comes from Murkowski and Collins, who are both heavily funded by teachers’ unions.

 

[Joe Fan]

Ready-made organic signs

 

[Joe Fan]

Sucks for CNN

"Sixty-eight percent (68%) think the Supreme Court should make decisions based on what’s written in the U.S. Constitution and legal precedents. Only 26% feel the court should be guided mostly by a sense of fairness and justice instead.

That’s the sticking point. Conservatives have long complained about liberal judges whom they believe read new rights into the law to adapt to changing times. Eighty-four percent (84%) of conservatives and 61% of moderates want a court that sticks to a strict interpretation of the Constitution over each judge’s sense of fairness and justice; liberals are closely divided. ..."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...voters_see_gorsuch_in_the_judicial_mainstream

 

[Seattle Husker]

The more pressing issue with schools is not money. We have to get out of this group think that every student is equal when it comes to learning.

Once kids are out of grade school, we should be honing their strong suits instead of having them all learn the same stuff. Have them take an aptitude test and question them on what interest them. Get the results and design their studies around their areas of interest and tested abilities.

Some are more geared towards college education and some are more geared towards a trade or craft.

I am a good example. I could easily get a college degree but I loath school and had no desire to go to college. Instead, I choose the military where I served 22 years and retired. Now I have a job that requires only a high school diploma and I make around $125K a year between my current job and my military pension. So, you can't tell me that you can't have a good income on a high school education.

The whole system needs revamping not more money thrown at it or different avenues to attend.

Our school systems have become too focused on college and lost sight of trade crafts. I voted for the Republican for Superindent of Education in Washington St. for this reason. He promised to bring back trade programs in schools to give kids that aren't hardwired for academia an option other than simply to drop out.

What little I know about the German system I like. It has gates when kids will get put on a track to a different outcome. The smart kids move on to the top HS. The less than smart kids get moved into trades. That's too PC for the US though where with have this misinformed idealism that any kid is capable of college level work.

 

[militaryhorn]

Our school systems have become too focused on college and lost sight of trade crafts. I voted for the Republican in for Superindent of Education in Washington St. for this reason. He promised to bring back trade programs in schools to give kids that aren't hardwired for academia an option other than simply to drop out.

What little I know about the German system I like. It has gates when kids will get put on a track to a different outcome. The smart kids move on to the top HS. The less than smart kids get moved into trades. That's too PC for the US though where with have this misinformed idealism that any kid is capable of college level work.

While I was in college, I did a presentation that studied Sweden and South Korea. Both had similar programs as Germany. They were also, at the time, the top two countries in math and science test scores. I think this is due to them separating kids early and focusing on these areas for college bound students.

 

[Joe Fan]

This is kind of bold coming from the daughter of a professional politician who made made up a big story about personally being under Bosnian sniper fire

 

[Horn6721]

Wasn't the only reason a massacre was prevented in Bowling Green was the FBI arrested the terrorists before they could act?
You would think that would be a happy outcome worth mentioning .

 

[Seattle Husker]

Wasn't the only reason a massacre was prevented in Bowling Green was the FBI arrested the terrorists before they could act?
You would think that would be a happy outcome worth mentioning .

These 2 individuals weren't charged with plotting a terrorist attack in the US. They were charged with plotting to send weapons to Al Queda in Iraq. Later 1 of them was tied via fingerprints to IED's in Iraq.

We are all happy with the outcome that these 2 individuals were caught before executing their plot. Kudos to DHS! Details are important though, especially for an administration so intent on bashing the media for mistakes (MLK bust) and telling the truth.

 

[Horn6721]

I believe Kelly corrected her error.

 

[NJlonghorn]

They were also, at the time, the top two countries in math and science test scores. I think this is due to them separating kids early and focusing on these areas for college bound students.

I very much agree that we push too many kids onto the college-prep route. College isn't for everyone, and there are plenty of good jobs available without a college degree.

That said, pushing so many kids towards college also distorts our test results, making our schools look worse than they really are. Yes, our math tests are lower, but that's largely because a cross-section of our students is being compared to a cross-section of their top students. When that factor is controlled for, we score pretty well.

IMHO, the problem is not the overall quality of our education system. The problem is the unevenness of our education system. Too many students do not get the same high-quality education that other of our students get.

 

[Clean]

Californians on the street asked what they thought about Donald Trump's decision to nominate Rob Kardashian to the Supreme Court .....

Oh dear... I guess that news never got to planet Facebook, where they live. But, I'll bet they could all regurgitate reasons for opposing Trump.

 

[Seattle Husker]

I believe Kelly corrected her error.

As did Zeke Miller within 30 minutes of tweeting the MLK error. Spicer immediately accepted the apology then...

- Spicer blasted Miller in the next days press conference
- Trump blasted him in 3 speeches within 11 days following the mistake including calling him out by name.
- Trump blasted him in 2 tweets

Does Conway deserve the same treatment? I think it was an honest, albeit freudian, mistake. Trump used Zeke Miller as an example of "dishonest media". What does that make Conway? "Dishonest administration"? The funniest part about the mistake is that Conway was saying the "Bowling Green Massacre" was "never reported by the media". In her apology, she posted the ABCnews.com article (yes, MSM) about the arrest of these 2 individuals. I understand administrations "spin" the news but Kellyanne Conway's credibility for accuracy has to be less than JoeFan's at this point.

I believe JoeFan's mention of the Conway mistake is the first on this site since it occurred and it was used to mock Chelsea Clinton. Predictable I guess.

 

[Horn6721]

Well Husker Conway is getting the same treatment.

 

[mchammer]

Wasn't the only reason a massacre was prevented in Bowling Green was the FBI arrested the terrorists before they could act?
You would think that would be a happy outcome worth mentioning .

The massacre is what they did in Iraq killing US soldiers.

 

[Horn6721]

Mch
Thanks for pointing that out. So was it really that big a deal to leftists ?
Apparently It Was A BIG Deal To Some posters on here. The massacre that actually did happen but did not happen in Bowling Green but it did happen
The leftists are pretty desperate

 

[mchammer]

Mch
Thanks for pointing that out. So was it really that big a deal to leftists ?
Apparently It Was A BIG Deal To Some posters on here. The massacre that actually did happen but did not happen in Bowling Green but it did happen
The leftists are pretty desperate

Note leftists used massacre to describe Trump's sacking of the acting AG.

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Mr. Deez]

I'd be curious what you define as "variable costs". Clearly building costs, materials, etc. wouldn't be in that bucket. What about teachers?

What is and is not a variable cost would be determined according to cost management accounting principles. Presumably, teachers would be classified as a variable cost since a school with 500 kids likely doesn't need as many teachers as a school with 800 kids.

The statistic that most strongly correlates to student success (outside of socio-economic status) is class size.

That depends on who you ask.

I'm not defending under-performing public schools. Clearly we need to fix that but I also believe that's a function of the socio-economic status of the students (and quality of the parents by proxy). Removing funding from public schools may help the individual student moving to the charter school but dooms the nonperforming school to becoming a prison. Of course, some might argue they are already there.

You don't defend underperforming schools, but you give credence to their self-serving premise that a lack of money is what holds them back. I don't buy it, because most of them don't actually lack money and because most of them get outperformed by schools that get a lot less money.

We have a different set of priorities. You want to keep the bad school from becoming a prison. My priority is to give the kids a chance to get out of the prison or alleged prison. If we can give them a chance to get a good education and don't offer it because we're trying to ensure that their failing school never has to compete for money, that's an injustice.

I agree with you that bad parenting is the biggest problem. Schools in Detroit don't get bad results because something is wrong with the schools (though something is wrong). They get bad results because something is wrong with the families of the kids. So long as it's socially acceptable for large numbers of men to have sex, make babies, and then shirk their responsibility to become real husbands and fathers, we're going to have large numbers of failing kids. It's a social and moral problem, not a school problem.

However, not all the families are a mess. Some of those kids have responsibile dads. Some of them have single moms who work 2 or 3 jobs with hopes that their kids will do better. Letting them have that chance should be our top priority and shouldn't be contingent on the public school reforming itself.

 

[Joe Fan]

.....
Sessions getting confirmed before Devos (and others) is a sign that Mitch has enough votes to get her through without Sessions vote.

It does seem evident now that DeVos will need Sessions' vote
Once she goes through, Sessions can go through

On Thurs, the the procedure votes on Price and Mnuchin both passed 51-48
If you were wondering why the total was 99, this is why
Sessions abstained
Mitch knew he can pass them without Sessions

 

[Joe Fan]

BETSY DEVOS CONFIRMATION VOTE 12:00 PM ET

CSpan has it streaming https://www.c-span.org/video/?423606-1/us-senate-debates-betsy-devos-nomination

The Teachers' Unions know they are in for some overdue comeuppance.
But, given the state of public schools, should we expect more than small, incremental improvement?
IMO, if you cut all funding to public schools in half, the test scores would not change dramatically.
Likewise, if you doubled funding to public schools, the test scores would not change dramatically.

 

[Joe Fan]

After a long loopy fight, but now the Devos CONFIRMATION is set for vote on Tues at noon

A chance to witness history if Pence is forced to cast the deciding vote