Trump!!!
- Thread starter snek
- Start date
I'm not defending the BKs. I think if you file BK, you should be done as a big shot. But that's just me, of course; actually having an expectation contracts would be honored of labor, vendors, government ... etc.
To answer your question: YES.
... what difference does it make if I do or don't have reason for you to save this post?
I've made a prediction. BevoBeef did an excellent job of outlining the whys ... he has a few I hadn't considered.
I'm just a doubting Thomas, I guess. Trump's conversion may be real. If so, AMEN. But to expect my vote for the POTUS just because he's a Christian (however immature) is woefully insufficient. I know a lot of mature Christians who wouldn't make a good POTUS.
If it's NOT real ... and there's more "fruit" to suggest this than his words ... then not only is it an offense to Believers, to think that's the extent of their analysis ... then his liberal philosophy including in very recent years suggests this is just another Deal ... but the Deal is with 300 million and whatever illegals and deceased who participate.
THAT'S the ultimate. It's better to own the POTUS than to BE the POTUS.
"Get money out of politics" ... the donors are running things ... Yes, that's unfortunate. So, let's elect a donor???
zork
2,500+ Posts
http://www.incomediary.com/went-bankrupt-now-worth-millions
Trump just following in the footsteps of Abe Lincoln, General Grant, and William McKinley. Hillary could file bankrupcy and follow Benedict Arnold.
Trump just following in the footsteps of Abe Lincoln, General Grant, and William McKinley. Hillary could file bankrupcy and follow Benedict Arnold.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Epic takedown of Donald Trump by John Oliver last night. John Oliver claims that one of Donald Trump's ancestors long ago changed the last name from Drumpf. In turn, they've created a satirical website www.donaldjdrumpf.com.
From the John Oliver takedown:
“At this point, Donald Trump is America’s back mole,” Oliver said on Sunday’s episode. “It may have seemed harmless a year ago, but now that it’s become frighteningly bigger, it’s no longer wise to ignore it.”
If you have 20 minutes, Oliver eviscerates Trump. If only the US media had started asking about some of the things Oliver truthfully states months ago, we might be looking at a very different election.
“At this point, Donald Trump is America’s back mole,” Oliver said on Sunday’s episode. “It may have seemed harmless a year ago, but now that it’s become frighteningly bigger, it’s no longer wise to ignore it.”
If you have 20 minutes, Oliver eviscerates Trump. If only the US media had started asking about some of the things Oliver truthfully states months ago, we might be looking at a very different election.
GreenDragonSix
100+ Posts
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!! LMFAO!!!! There's such so more public history on Trump than Obama (when he was running for president) to eviscerate him but the media has had nearly a year to do that, and yet, they haven't come up with anything substantial or anything real to sink him. Even if they did nothing has stuck. Maybe the media and the GOP establishment thought he and his campaign would've imploded by now. Unless the NYT off/on recording of Trump's immigration stance, which has been unreleased to this point, maybe they are waiting till after tonight, Super Tuesday, to really show who the Donald is.
But why?
No ****...this is by far the best and funniest but most crucial presidential campaigns by both sides of the aisle since I was able to vote in 1996!!!
I generally don't go for Oliver (or Stewart or Colbert) because they're partisan hacks, even if they pretend not to be. However, this was a heck of a good show, and he's right on.
I do think it's worth asking the question of why the media has given Trump such a pass. The controversial crap he has spouted and done over the years would have destroyed any other Republican's career. The media would have been absolutely relentless about it until it did. That tells me that they want Trump to be the nominee. Why? I speculate two reasons.
First, he's obviously a huge ratings draw. The longer he sticks around the more people will watch and read political news that focuses on him. Accordingly, they have a clear interest in not destroying his political career until it's absolutely necessary.
Second, serious political thinkers know Trump is the weakest GOP general election candidate. If you're a partisan Democrat like most media figures are, Trump is the guy you want to take on the Democratic nominee, especially if it's the remarkably weak Hillary Clinton.
Once Trump becomes inevitable, I expect that we'll see a much more hostile media. They'll focus on his negatives much more. Every racist or sexist comment he has made will become bigger news, and if I recall correctly, there was a sexual harassment lawsuit brougt against Trump at one point. That'll get more attention as well.
GreenDragonSix
100+ Posts
It is sad the media is using him for ratings but hey, that's business.
But you make a good point that the media will prop him up until the last moment when they will pull the rug from under him. That'll be fun to watch. Media and net blogger buzzards are awaiting.
It would be fun to watch if the stakes weren't so high. We're going to end up with a Benito Mussolini starter kit or the Queen of Sleaze. Pick your poison. I'm going to vote third party, but I'm under no illusions. My candidate will have no chance. I'm only voting third party so I'll still have clean hands after this humiliation of an election is over.
You guys don't get it. You don't get the voter motivation and you don't Trump's sales tactics. Start practicing to say President Trump.
Apparently, "Minister" Louis Farrakhan is now praising Trump for turning down money from Jews. Link. So not only has Trump drawn accolades from Duke, he's got Farrakhan now. He does have a monopoly on the Jew-haters now. If he can hustle some skinheads and maybe Quannel X, there will be no stopping Trump.
You can't make this **** up, folks. It's too crazy.
You can't make this **** up, folks. It's too crazy.
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Not sure who ORC is but ORC claims Trump is beating the combined field.
If Rubio gets dumped everywhere today and then drops out sometime this week, then I think Cruz still has a good shot. The bulk of Rubio voters, with nowhere else to go, would go to Cruz (I think).
I think Trump has it right that now all the Rubio voters would go to Cruz. The question will be if there is a defined #2 coming tomorrow. If Rubio and Cruz are still splitting #2 then what incentive do either have to drop out? Cruz clearly doesn't back down thus he'll likely take his fight all the way to the convention, regardless of his position. Will Rubio if he is the prevailing #2? If I'm Rubio, I'm thinking that I'm the compromise candidate for Trump/Cruz supporters.
I know Robert Byrd's KKK affiliation (made as an ignorant young backwoods West Virginian) and segregationist activities (ceased by 1968 when he supported the Civil Rights Act of 1968) is still NEWS to Republicans, who welcomed the remaining unapologetic segregationists like Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms into their party not long after Byrd renounced and apologies for his segregationist views. I guess 1968 wasn't that long ago and maybe word hasn't reached the Republican mime writers.
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
I do not envy you "situational ethics" believers who have to keep up with all the different standards you use to apply to different people. Must be tough to remember it all. You guys must use cheat sheets?
I don't know what President Clinton said about Bob Byrd at the tribute, so I can't say whether I stand behind his comments. I can say that I am not a fan of Byrd's work, especially from the earlier parts of his career.
That said, the comparison between Byrd and David Duke is a stretch. Yes, Byrd was a KKK member and leader in the early 1940s, and yes that is despicable. But before we make a comparison between Byrd and David Duke, we should wait until Duke renounces his affiliation with the KKK and spends almost 70 years apologizing profusely.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
This election has already been so fascinating. But it all could simply be prologue for the Convention itself. If Trump has it but the GOP figures out a way to worm its way out of it (which they are clearly trying to do), I have no idea what might happen. If it results in Trump running on a 3rd Party ticket then we have already seen how this goes -- Trump/Perot gets a Clinton elected (remember Bill became prez with only 43% of the vote). What a cruel trick it would be to do that to us again. At that point, I would not completely rule out an armed insurrection. And I would be willing to take odds HRC is a one-termer (the more people see and hear her, the more they hate her. After 3 years of that, even the vaginas will turn on her).
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Again, pick a standard. If Byrd's KKK-ness doesnt stick to him (or Bill) then you should not be sticking Duke to Trump.
OK, Byrd's been dead a decade and renounced his KKK affiliation more than half a century ago. Based on the mime you posted, apparently it's STILL sticking to Byrd and all who touched him.
I guess Trump gets a pass sometime after 2060. (Just kidding. Trump steps on 20 landmines every week and none, apparently, really stick to him. As I posted earlier, the landmines don't kill him. In fact, he absorbs their energy and it makes him stronger.)
I guess Trump gets a pass sometime after 2060. (Just kidding. Trump steps on 20 landmines every week and none, apparently, really stick to him. As I posted earlier, the landmines don't kill him. In fact, he absorbs their energy and it makes him stronger.)
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
The KKK stink tends to stick for a long time.
It's funny how you make excuses for Byrd and tout his evolution over time, yet are unwilling to extend the same courtesy to Trump's evolution into a R and/or conservative. Again, you guys and your vacillating standards.
Let me explain the issue in simple terms.
You like Byrd (and Bill Clinton)
You dont like Trump.
This is the sole reason you have different standards for different people and why your ethics float around like a butterfly., i.e., situational ethics.
But you are not alone, even some members of the Supreme Court do the same thing. They look at a case, decide who they want to win, then back their way into an opinion through tortured reasoning. So, I guess you can say you keep good company. The problem with this approach, the so-called Living Constitution, is that it f's everything up. Lack of principle inevitably leads to chaos and ruin.
He gets stronger in the primary, but he gets weaker in the general election.
Byrd was the undisputed heavyweight champion of Pork Barrel politics, which has been taken to the extreme and is destructive to fiscal sanity. I have no Byrd mementos in my home. The sympathy I have is as a Christian who believes people who repent and change their ways can be forgiven.
As far a Trump's ideology, it's not too bad from this centerist's viewpoint. He doesn't tread as carefully as most politicians and it's amazing sometimes what comes out of his mouth. Maybe he's changing the rules on political correctness. That's not all bad.
Last edited:
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Kind of interesting -- Trump won GOP voters with postgraduate degrees in Massachusetts
That is interesting. That reverses a trend from earlier primaries. If Kasich wasn't in I'd wager Rubio would have won that demographic though.
Musburger1
2,500+ Posts
Taibbi came out with a funny article today.
Link
Link
To hear GOP insiders tell it, Doomsday is here. If Donald Trump scores huge on tonight and seizes control of the nomination in the Super Tuesday primaries, it will mark the beginning of the end of the Republican Party, and perhaps the presidency.
But Trump isn't the beginning of the end. George W. Bush was. The amazing anti-miracle of the Bush presidency is what makes today's nightmare possible.
People forget what an extraordinary thing it was that Bush was president. Dubya wasn't merely ignorant when compared with other politicians or other famous people. No, he would have stood out as dumb in just about any setting.
If you could somehow run simulations where Bush was repeatedly shipwrecked on a desert island with 20 other adults chosen at random, he would be the last person listened to by the group every single time. He knew absolutely nothing about anything. He wouldn't have been able to make fire, find water, build shelter or raise morale. It would have taken him days to get over the shock of no room service.
Bush went to the best schools but was totally ignorant of history, philosophy, science, geography, languages and the arts. Asked by a child in South Carolina in 1999 what his favorite book had been growing up, Bush replied, “I can’t remember any specific books.”
Bush showed no interest in learning and angrily rejected the idea that a president ought to be able to think his way through problems. As Mark Crispin Miller wrote in The Bush Dyslexicon, Bush's main rhetorical tool was the tautology — i.e., saying the same thing, only twice.
"It's very important for folks to understand that when there's more trade, there's more commerce" was a classic Bush formulation. "Our nation must come together to unite" was another. One of my favorites was: "I understand that the unrest in the Middle East creates unrest throughout the region."
Academics and political junkies alike giddily compiled these "Bushisms" along with others that were funny for different reasons ("I'm doing what I think what's wrong," for instance).
But Bush's tautologies weren't gaffes or verbal slips. They just represented the limits of his reasoning powers: A = A. There are educational apps that use groups of images to teach two-year-olds to recognize that an orange is like an orange while a banana is a banana. Bush was stalled at that developmental moment. And we elected him president.
Bush's eight years were like the reigns of a thousand overwhelmed congenital monarchs from centuries past. While the prince rode horses, romped with governesses and blew the national treasure on britches or hedge-mazes, the state was run by Svengalis and Rasputins who dealt with what Bush once derisively described as "what's happening in the world."
In Bush's case he had Karl "Turd Blossom" Rove thinking out the problem of how to get re-elected, while Dick "Vice" Cheney, Donald "Rummy" Rumsfeld and Andrew "Tangent Man" Card took care of the day-to-day affairs of the country (part of Card's responsibilities involved telling Bush what was in the newspapers he refused to read).
It took hundreds of millions of dollars and huge armies of such behind-the-throne puppet-masters to twice (well, maybe twice) sell a voting majority on the delusion of George Bush, president. Though people might quibble with the results, the scale of this as a purely political achievement was awesome and heroic, comparable to a moon landing or the splitting of the atom.
Guiding Bush the younger through eight years of public appearances was surely the greatest coaching job in history. It was like teaching a donkey to play the Waldstein Sonata. It's breathtaking to think about now.
But one part of it backfired. Instead of using an actor like Reagan to sell policies to the public, the Svengalis behind Bush sold him as an authentic man of the people, the guy you'd want to have an O'Doul's with.
Rove correctly guessed that a generation of watching TV and Hollywood movies left huge blocs of Americans convinced that people who read books, looked at paintings and cared about spelling were either serial killers or scheming to steal bearer bonds from the Nakatomi building. (Even knowing what a bearer bond is was villainous).
The hero in American culture, meanwhile, was always a moron with a big gun who learned everything he needed to know from cowboy movies. The climax of pretty much every action movie from the mid-eighties on involved shotgunning the smarty-pants villain in the face before he could finish some fruity speech about whatever.
Rove sold Bush as that hero. He didn't know anything, but dammit, he was sure about what he didn't know. He was John McClane, and Al Gore was Hans Gruber. GOP flacks like Rove rallied the whole press corps around that narrative, to the point where anytime Gore tried to nail Bush down on a point of policy, pundits blasted him for being a smug know-it-all using wonk-ese to talk over our heads — as Cokie Roberts put it once, "this guy from Washington doing Washington-speak."
This is like the scene from the increasingly prophetic Idiocracy where no one can understand Luke Wilson, a person of average intelligence rocketed 500 years into America's idiot future, because whenever he tries to reason with people, they think he's talking "like a ***."
The Roves of the world used Bush's simplicity to win the White House. Once they got there, they used the levers of power to pillage and scheme like every other gang of rapacious politicians ever. But the plan was never to make ignorance a political principle. It was just a ruse to win office.
Now the situation is the opposite. Now GOP insiders are frantic at the prospect of an uncultured ignoramus winning the presidency. A group of major donors and GOP strategists even wrote out a memo outlining why a super PAC dedicated to stopping Trump was needed.
"We want voters to imagine Donald Trump in the Big Chair in the Oval Office, with responsibilities for worldwide confrontation at his fingertips," they wrote. Virginia Republican congressman Scott Ringell wrote an open letter to fellow Republicans arguing that a Trump presidency would be "reckless, embarrassing and ultimately dangerous."
Hold on. It wasn't scary to imagine George "Is our children learning?" Bush with the "responsibilities for worldwide confrontation" at his fingertips? It wasn't embarrassing to have a president represent the U.S. on the diplomatic stage who called people from Kosovo "Kosovians" and people from Greece "Grecians?"
It was way worse. Compared to Bush, Donald Trump is a Rutherford or an Einstein. In the same shipwreck scenario, Trump would have all sorts of ideas — all wrong, but at least he'd think of something, instead of staring at the sand waiting for a hotel phone to rise out of it.
Of course, Trump's ignorance level, considering his Wharton education, is nearly as awesome as what Bush accomplished in spite of Yale. In fact, unlike Bush, who had the decency to not even try to understand the news, Trump reads all sorts of crazy things and believes them all. From theories about vaccines causing autism to conspiratorial questions about the pillow on Antonin Scalia's face to Internet legends about Americans using bullets dipped in pigs' blood to shoot Muslims, there isn't any absurd idea Donald Trump isn't willing to entertain, so long as it fits in with his worldview.
But Washington is freaking out about Trump in a way they never did about Bush. Why? Because Bush was their moron, while Trump is his own moron. That's really what it comes down to.
And all of the Beltway's hooting and hollering about how "embarrassing" and "dangerous" Trump is will fall on deaf ears, because as gullible as Americans can be, they're smart enough to remember being told that it was OK to vote for George Bush, a man capable of losing at tic-tac-toe.
We're about to enter a dark period in the history of the American experiment. The Founding Fathers never imagined an electorate raised on Toddlers and Tiaras and Temptation Island. Remember, just a few decades ago, shows like Married With Children and Roseanne were satirical parodies. Now the audience can't even handle that much irony. A lot of American culture is just dumb slobs cheering on other dumb slobs. It was inevitable, once we broke the seal with Bush, that our politics would become the same thing.
Madison and Jefferson never foresaw this situation. They knew there was danger of demagoguery, but they never imagined presidential candidates exchanging "mine's bigger than yours" jokes or doing "let's laugh at the disabled" routines. There's no map in the Constitution to tell us how to get out of where we're going. All we can do now is hold on.
But Trump isn't the beginning of the end. George W. Bush was. The amazing anti-miracle of the Bush presidency is what makes today's nightmare possible.
People forget what an extraordinary thing it was that Bush was president. Dubya wasn't merely ignorant when compared with other politicians or other famous people. No, he would have stood out as dumb in just about any setting.
If you could somehow run simulations where Bush was repeatedly shipwrecked on a desert island with 20 other adults chosen at random, he would be the last person listened to by the group every single time. He knew absolutely nothing about anything. He wouldn't have been able to make fire, find water, build shelter or raise morale. It would have taken him days to get over the shock of no room service.
Bush went to the best schools but was totally ignorant of history, philosophy, science, geography, languages and the arts. Asked by a child in South Carolina in 1999 what his favorite book had been growing up, Bush replied, “I can’t remember any specific books.”
Bush showed no interest in learning and angrily rejected the idea that a president ought to be able to think his way through problems. As Mark Crispin Miller wrote in The Bush Dyslexicon, Bush's main rhetorical tool was the tautology — i.e., saying the same thing, only twice.
"It's very important for folks to understand that when there's more trade, there's more commerce" was a classic Bush formulation. "Our nation must come together to unite" was another. One of my favorites was: "I understand that the unrest in the Middle East creates unrest throughout the region."
Academics and political junkies alike giddily compiled these "Bushisms" along with others that were funny for different reasons ("I'm doing what I think what's wrong," for instance).
But Bush's tautologies weren't gaffes or verbal slips. They just represented the limits of his reasoning powers: A = A. There are educational apps that use groups of images to teach two-year-olds to recognize that an orange is like an orange while a banana is a banana. Bush was stalled at that developmental moment. And we elected him president.
Bush's eight years were like the reigns of a thousand overwhelmed congenital monarchs from centuries past. While the prince rode horses, romped with governesses and blew the national treasure on britches or hedge-mazes, the state was run by Svengalis and Rasputins who dealt with what Bush once derisively described as "what's happening in the world."
In Bush's case he had Karl "Turd Blossom" Rove thinking out the problem of how to get re-elected, while Dick "Vice" Cheney, Donald "Rummy" Rumsfeld and Andrew "Tangent Man" Card took care of the day-to-day affairs of the country (part of Card's responsibilities involved telling Bush what was in the newspapers he refused to read).
It took hundreds of millions of dollars and huge armies of such behind-the-throne puppet-masters to twice (well, maybe twice) sell a voting majority on the delusion of George Bush, president. Though people might quibble with the results, the scale of this as a purely political achievement was awesome and heroic, comparable to a moon landing or the splitting of the atom.
Guiding Bush the younger through eight years of public appearances was surely the greatest coaching job in history. It was like teaching a donkey to play the Waldstein Sonata. It's breathtaking to think about now.
But one part of it backfired. Instead of using an actor like Reagan to sell policies to the public, the Svengalis behind Bush sold him as an authentic man of the people, the guy you'd want to have an O'Doul's with.
Rove correctly guessed that a generation of watching TV and Hollywood movies left huge blocs of Americans convinced that people who read books, looked at paintings and cared about spelling were either serial killers or scheming to steal bearer bonds from the Nakatomi building. (Even knowing what a bearer bond is was villainous).
The hero in American culture, meanwhile, was always a moron with a big gun who learned everything he needed to know from cowboy movies. The climax of pretty much every action movie from the mid-eighties on involved shotgunning the smarty-pants villain in the face before he could finish some fruity speech about whatever.
Rove sold Bush as that hero. He didn't know anything, but dammit, he was sure about what he didn't know. He was John McClane, and Al Gore was Hans Gruber. GOP flacks like Rove rallied the whole press corps around that narrative, to the point where anytime Gore tried to nail Bush down on a point of policy, pundits blasted him for being a smug know-it-all using wonk-ese to talk over our heads — as Cokie Roberts put it once, "this guy from Washington doing Washington-speak."
This is like the scene from the increasingly prophetic Idiocracy where no one can understand Luke Wilson, a person of average intelligence rocketed 500 years into America's idiot future, because whenever he tries to reason with people, they think he's talking "like a ***."
The Roves of the world used Bush's simplicity to win the White House. Once they got there, they used the levers of power to pillage and scheme like every other gang of rapacious politicians ever. But the plan was never to make ignorance a political principle. It was just a ruse to win office.
Now the situation is the opposite. Now GOP insiders are frantic at the prospect of an uncultured ignoramus winning the presidency. A group of major donors and GOP strategists even wrote out a memo outlining why a super PAC dedicated to stopping Trump was needed.
"We want voters to imagine Donald Trump in the Big Chair in the Oval Office, with responsibilities for worldwide confrontation at his fingertips," they wrote. Virginia Republican congressman Scott Ringell wrote an open letter to fellow Republicans arguing that a Trump presidency would be "reckless, embarrassing and ultimately dangerous."
Hold on. It wasn't scary to imagine George "Is our children learning?" Bush with the "responsibilities for worldwide confrontation" at his fingertips? It wasn't embarrassing to have a president represent the U.S. on the diplomatic stage who called people from Kosovo "Kosovians" and people from Greece "Grecians?"
It was way worse. Compared to Bush, Donald Trump is a Rutherford or an Einstein. In the same shipwreck scenario, Trump would have all sorts of ideas — all wrong, but at least he'd think of something, instead of staring at the sand waiting for a hotel phone to rise out of it.
Of course, Trump's ignorance level, considering his Wharton education, is nearly as awesome as what Bush accomplished in spite of Yale. In fact, unlike Bush, who had the decency to not even try to understand the news, Trump reads all sorts of crazy things and believes them all. From theories about vaccines causing autism to conspiratorial questions about the pillow on Antonin Scalia's face to Internet legends about Americans using bullets dipped in pigs' blood to shoot Muslims, there isn't any absurd idea Donald Trump isn't willing to entertain, so long as it fits in with his worldview.
But Washington is freaking out about Trump in a way they never did about Bush. Why? Because Bush was their moron, while Trump is his own moron. That's really what it comes down to.
And all of the Beltway's hooting and hollering about how "embarrassing" and "dangerous" Trump is will fall on deaf ears, because as gullible as Americans can be, they're smart enough to remember being told that it was OK to vote for George Bush, a man capable of losing at tic-tac-toe.
We're about to enter a dark period in the history of the American experiment. The Founding Fathers never imagined an electorate raised on Toddlers and Tiaras and Temptation Island. Remember, just a few decades ago, shows like Married With Children and Roseanne were satirical parodies. Now the audience can't even handle that much irony. A lot of American culture is just dumb slobs cheering on other dumb slobs. It was inevitable, once we broke the seal with Bush, that our politics would become the same thing.
Madison and Jefferson never foresaw this situation. They knew there was danger of demagoguery, but they never imagined presidential candidates exchanging "mine's bigger than yours" jokes or doing "let's laugh at the disabled" routines. There's no map in the Constitution to tell us how to get out of where we're going. All we can do now is hold on.
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