TRUMP BETRAYS ALLY

[Mr. Deez]

It's as if Putin made this decision for him.....hmmmm....

Honestly, I don't think anyone made this decision for him. Even Putin has at least condemned the result of this move. It was basically one man's idiocy.

 

[Garmel]

Honestly, I don't think anyone made this decision for him. Even Putin has at least condemned the result of this move. It was basically one man's idiocy.

I think I wouldn't use the word "idiocy". He's also the guy that decimated ISIS and its territorial holdings, something that no lib or libertarian/RINO you voted for would have accomplished. I'd wait to see the long term effects here before I start commenting.

 

[Mr. Deez]

I think I wouldn't use the word "idiocy".

What a shock.

He's also the guy that decimated ISIS and it's territorial holdings, something that no lib or libertarian/RINO you voted for would have accomplished. I'd wait to see the long term effects here before I start commenting.

If you decimate ISIS and then let it's people out of the slammer, you haven't done a whole lot. Having said that, my mind's open like it has been on most things related to Trump. You're right. In 40 years, maybe it'll look smart. Maybe we would have been better off letting the Japanese have Pearl Harbor. Who knows?

 

[Garmel]

What a shock.



If you decimate ISIS and then let it's people out of the slammer, you haven't done a whole lot. Having said that, my mind's open like it has been on most things related to Trump. You're right. In 40 years, maybe it'll look smart. Maybe we would have been better off letting the Japanese have Pearl Harbor. Who knows?

Yeah, I remember you laughing at Trump over the one page agreement with Mexico. How does it look now? Things change quickly, bud.

 

[Monahorns]

Having Russia embroiled in the ME is not a bad thing for the US.

Their decades long war with Afghanistan was certainly a factor in the USSR crumbling.

Syria working with the Kurds is the best thing that could happen and it is. Those are the kind of alliances that have a good chance of working. They are regional and help to protect their countries from direct threats. Assad though brutal is known to work with and protect religious minorities. Erdogan is radicalizing the Turkish government as we speak.

Those ISIS prisoners will most likely become cannon fodder if they are let loose. They are hated in Syria and Iraq. Turkey may use them, but in an exploitative way. They are foreigners who would challenge Erdogan's sovereignty if they could.

Now Trump needs to betray our ally Saudi Arabia and remove all military aid and troops from them and tell them to get the hell out of Yemen or we will stop selling them weapons.

 

[Joe Fan]

As you might have expected, the Kurds have worked out a deal with the Syrian Govt. This swill allow Assad and the Kurds to unite to halt the advance of the Turkish Army (and the Syrian Army has already begun to move north). From there, they can work the rest out within internal Syrian politics.

One thing Trump tried to make clear was that we weren't responsible for Turkey's behavior. Thus clearing the US from any NATO entanglement if things get heated with Syria.

As foretold above, Syrians are now patrolling the streets of Manbij

 

[Joe Fan]

Having Russia embroiled in the ME is not a bad thing for the US.....

Our relationship with the Kurds in Syria was tactical, part of an overall strategy to defeat ISIS.

Turkey, like the US, is part of NATO, which has primarily always been a strategic alliance about the Russians/Soviets.

 

[Garmel]

Looking at my last posts I might not have been clear. I'm not saying you're completely wrong, @Mr. Deez. This could end up blowing up on Trump. However, you and I don't have the answers as of now.

 

[OUBubba]

Our relationship with the Kurds in Syria was tactical, part of an overall strategy to defeat ISIS.

Turkey, like the US, is part of NATO, which has primarily always been a strategic alliance about the Russians/Soviets.

Why in the wide wide world of sports did we vote with Russia to veto a UN resolution condemning Turkey's actions?

 

[Joe Fan]

In Joe's defense, sometimes it's hard to tell from a name. I've since figured out that you are a dude, but early on I wasn't sure because somebody in a thread kept calling you Mona. For most people here, I assume they're men. Political discussion boards are largely sausage fests.

I can sort of recall Mona relaying something one time he learned on a lesbian forum - so I just assumed .....

 

[Joe Fan]

... Trump claimed, if he did, would result in "shutting down of their economy" or some such threat.

They announced some sanctions today
-- Increases steel tariffs from 25-50%
-- Canceled $100 billion bilateral US/Turkey trade agreement discussions

 

[Seattle Husker]

They announced some sanctions today
-- Increases steel tariffs from 25-50%
-- Canceled $100 billion bilateral US/Turkey trade agreement discussions

Um, can someone please please tell Trump that tariffs are a tax paid by US Importers? In 2018 we imported $559M in "iron and steel" from Turkey. It amounted to ~3% of all steel imports.

 

[nashhorn]

How much was it in their exports? I really do not know but that is the significant number right?

 

[Seattle Husker]

How much was it in their exports? I really do not know but that is the significant number right?

Good point. I don't have that data but I suspect it won't bring them to their knees.

 

[ShAArk92]

It's as if Putin made this decision for him.....hmmmm....

well ... I’m seeing this as not completely off base ... mischaracterized ...

Rome East
Rome West

guess where those are

 

[Joe Fan]

How much was it in their exports? I really do not know but that is the significant number right?

Turkey has been in economic trouble for awhile. Erdogan has made all sorts of odd orders/decrees that have hit the financial sector hard, which has rippled through every sector. For example, the banks were made to take all USDs out of the economy. Their CB is in trouble.

The Lira

 

[Joe Fan]

It's as if the NYT is unaware Russia and Syria were already long-time allies or that Russia already had a base there

 

[OUBubba]

They announced some sanctions today
-- Increases steel tariffs from 25-50%
-- Canceled $100 billion bilateral US/Turkey trade agreement discussions

1. The toothpaste is out of the tube. The Kurds are not an ally anymore. Many of them are dead.
2. Sanctions on Turkey have no impact on Russia. I think they want to have a role in the middle east just to muck up the works to keep oil prices somewhat elevated because their economy is a one trick pony.

 

[ShAArk92]

Did I just read that Pence has been dispatched to negotiate between the Kurds and the Turks??

Must be a mistake.

 

[Joe Fan]

Taylor Swift’s silence on Turkey’s NATO membership amidst their Syria invasion is deafening

 

[Joe Fan]

.. 2. Sanctions on Turkey have no impact on Russia. ....

Sanctioning Russia is not exactly an original thought

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Seattle Husker]

According to Trump today Turkey and Syria "have nothing to do with us". In his PC with the Italian PM he went on to say that the Kurds are "not angels" and that Trump personally should be credited with taking down ISIS and "we captured many of them".

The Kurds lost 11k soldiers under the direction and fighting with US military while battling ISIS. Now Trump is linking the SDF with the former PKK which were recognized terrorists.

Trump has completely thrown the Kurds under the bus then driven over them several times over.

What must Pence and Pompeo be thinking as they prepare to travel to Turkey tomorrow to negotiate for a ceasefire for a situation that Trump says has nothing to do with us?

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Mr. Deez]

Looking at my last posts I might not have been clear. I'm not saying you're completely wrong, @Mr. Deez. This could end up blowing up on Trump. However, you and I don't have the answers as of now.

I'll readily admit that I don't have the answers. What bugs me is that if we had left well enough alone, there wouldn't have been a question for which we need answers.

 

[Mr. Deez]

The Kurds lost 11k soldiers under the direction and fighting with US military while battling ISIS.

Yeah, I'm not sure why people gloss over this. People who think that alliance is worthless need to remember that they lost 11,000 soldiers. Or to think of it another way, that's 11,000 soldiers that we DIDN'T have to sacrifice because they did. To me, that's pretty valuable.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Yeah, I'm not sure why people gloss over this. People who think that alliance is worthless need to remember that they lost 11,000 soldiers. Or to think of it another way, that's 11,000 soldiers that we DIDN'T have to sacrifice because they did. To me, that's pretty valuable.

They are a terrific example of how we should fight wars, very low risk to our soldiers.

 

[Mr. Deez]

They are a terrific example of how we should fight wars, very low risk to our soldiers.

It's a sweet deal if you can get it. We put up the money and the weapons, and they put up the blood (at least virtually all of it). Not bad.

 

[ShAArk92]

What bugs me is that if we had left well enough alone, there wouldn't have been a question for which we need answers.

That’s the thing ... like politics ... “you” may have no interest in politics, but it has an interest in YOU.

”leaving well enough alone” at best delays the issue and costs more in the end (lives and dollars).

I don’t have all the answers either ... but it’s amazing how selective the outrage with US action/policy ... inversely proportional to the degree of democrat calling the shots

 

[Seattle Husker]

It's a sweet deal if you can get it. We put up the money and the weapons, and they put up the blood (at least virtually all of it). Not bad.

The next time the CIA walks into some area trying to enlist the help of a local militia their response will certainly be different. This isn't like the US supporting the Mujahedeen in the 80's then walking away from Afghanistan after the Soviets pulled out. This is the equivalent of leaving the Mujahedeen mid-battle to watch them get slaughtered.

If the SDF wasn't militant towards the US before, they certainly will be now. I can't help but think we've just facilitated the radicalization of thousands of Kurds.