No need to jump off a cliff after one loss. Based upon last years good performances at USC, ou, and others, I thought this year we could go 10-2 at best. We can beat USC and ou and drop 2 we shouldn't just like most 10-2 teams out there. I was surprised the D played so bad and that we still refuse to run the ball. This is a long term fix and we need Herman to turn it around. It will happen. We are not getting blown out like under Strong.
Tommy Boy is in Denial
- Thread starter dukesteer
- Start date
It is still the "L" that counts, and Herman was hired to produce as few of these as possible. Giving 2 W's away on opening games against what was a lesser opponent isn't what he is being paid to do.
1) it isn't just the one loss...it is the fact that it is deja vu all over again. To perform THIS poorly after a season of crap is inexcusable.
2) I refuse to take solace in the fact that losses are closer than under Chuckles the Clown. Losses are losses and are not tolerated well around these parts. This is Texas and the sizeable contracts are given with the expectations that the coach is going to put a team on the field that is more than competitive. That simply has not happened under Mensa-boy.
3) Mediocrity could have been had for a LOT less than the taxpayers are being stuck with on Herman. Somewhere is a Pop Warner coach that could have put up the same results and would have been thrilled with $100K per year.
Are you calling BS on my comment about you being TH's pimp or that I've seen nothing but **** or both?
After 7-6 last season and what we saw Sat. (sitting 0-1) that list is VERY sobering!!
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zuckercanyon
2,500+ Posts
Vol, I guess I am a pimp for TH.....not gonna lie, BUT, I'll disagree on anyone saying this team is "loaded" and "ready"....Malik and Conner left, Hill as well, some others...but even that team went 7-6....I think someone said Boyd is a first rounder? I thought I saw him get torched again on Saturday.....Hager will be on a practice squad? That's what we're celebrating? Forgot Ehlinger, I am tired of everyone piling on the offense and acting like the defense didn't give up 34. We have Tulsa on Saturday and some on this thread or others is already warning that Sam better be sharp because Tulsa's offense is so good we might be down early....Guess we can't force a turnover, 3 and outs, etc...yep, it's ALLLLL about Sam, and TH, and Beck.....see my point just a little? Like last year, I think this team can/will be in EVERY game. Is Sam quirky? YES! However, I've seen enough of Buechele to think that his mobility behind this oline would also limit us. I'm also not at practices, know the internal dealings etc. I'll stand down some because this mess about Herman has gotten me riled about Charlie Strong supporters, etc. Lest we forget, Strong got paid $5 million dollars for all that losing AND is still getting paid for all that losing. Some here find that amusing, like "the good guys still won because he's getting PAID!" I'll Bravo Sierra that attitude and acknowledge at the same time that Herman seems to be writing checks his butt can't cash. This year will be this year and I'll be watching with the rest of you, but starting next year (after what I consider the Charlie Strong riff-raff is gone), it'll be Tom's show to win or lose.
I think it is funny to hear people bring up their tax dollars on here as justification for their onslaught.
Come on guys....your tax dollars are what is motivating and validating these rants?
Come on guys....your tax dollars are what is motivating and validating these rants?
Detective Shilala
2,500+ Posts
Hey Zuck, I appreciate your honesty. Truth is we all have our tipping point. I really wanted Charlie to succeed and I was probably too patient with him, and now i am probably not being patient enough with Herman.
At some point it became apparent in year three under Charlie that the corner was forever being turned and in fact the corner was nothing but a big circle.
Perhaps this is why I have lost my patience so quickly with Tom. This looks like a re-run to me.
When both Herman and Strong came in, they were all about changing the culture.
So far Tom Herman has failed just as his predecessor did. Its still one step forward, one step back.
For all of his lip service to hating losing, he has made excuse after excuse. Blaming binders, trying to be too perfect when we were actually very sloppy, and everything in between. Sticking with coordinators and players he has a soft sport for even as they fail. He is honoring his process, pee charts, etc etc but IMO, one year in and Herman has settled for mediocrity, and so has this team. He did not change the culture here. It has changed him.
I also put a lot of Strong's failures on talent (Mack) for the first two years, like you are doing here. Looking back, I don't think that was fair.
I am starting to wonder if its something about UT, Austin or Bellmont, etc, that makes coaches settle for medicocrity on the field. Maybe winning the press conference, working the bureaucracy, and surviving the office politics is enough.
moondog_LFZ
5,000+ Posts
I don"t know that we are loaded and ready, but our worst recruits are better than most other schools best. Certainly Maryland.
I think a 75 year old Bill Snyder (Purple Wizard) would take these same players and kick Maryland's ***.
Because he can evaluate talent and place that talent in the best situation to win.
He can game plan.
Justification? No. Explanation? Absolutely.
State employees, of which Herman is one, have to meet expectations. If they don't, they are gone. While this holds true in the private sector as well, the reality is that State employees, beyond performance, have an inherent accountability TO the taxpayer. In this case, those taxpayers ALSO happen to include a substantial number of fans of a previously successful football program.
Right now, Herman is yet another example of governmental waste and excessive spending that is NOT producing any manner of reasonable return for the State. And, as taxpayers, we have a greater right of an ability to express that outrage than if Texas were a private school. This is essentially the same as the rights of shareholders in a publicly traded company to have recourse for a poorly performing CEO or Board, rights which do not exist to anywhere near the same level when a company is privately held.
"No coach in recent memory thrust out his chest, strutted, smacked that bubblegum, scowled and tried to intimidate the masses while acting as if he owned the place without having done a thing on this level more than Tommy Boy Herman."
Dead on. I'll say again the thing that has got me (and other fans) so pissed. It's not the fact TH lost to Maryland again, it's how he lost. The systemic issues that have not been corrected resulting in continually beating themselves. Knowing you'll continue to lose as long as those systemic issues exist. The lack of accountability and excuses for everything. Never taking ownership of poor decisions. Watching KP trot out there in the 4th qtr when even Stevie Wonder could see Watson and Ingram were much better options. Playing who you like rather than the best player.
I agree with DS. Tommy has not changed the culture. It's changed him to accept and defend mediocrity.
Your reply made me question the wording of my original post. Perhaps I shouldn't have been so presumptuous.
I can see some of you are serious about the tax issue. My apologies.
I for one just view sport as sport and think it is taken waaay too serious these days.
Accountability...yes.
But, tax issue aside, there is quite a bit of unreasonable and irrational chatter...or at least tone.
I think we the fans should be accountable, too.
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Bottom-line to me; it's like what someone once said about porn: "I can't describe it but I know it when I see it."
We can argue about why we lost (Herman making the decision to use the 5th year running back instead of the one who was more effective earlier in the game) but to me it's this; I know when I see a well coached team and we didn't see it. The feeling is not there. We had no tactical advantage to exploit (or couldn't find one) and found ourselves having to adjust to the jet sweep which means we were out-coached because they had a tactical advantage.
We can argue about why we lost (Herman making the decision to use the 5th year running back instead of the one who was more effective earlier in the game) but to me it's this; I know when I see a well coached team and we didn't see it. The feeling is not there. We had no tactical advantage to exploit (or couldn't find one) and found ourselves having to adjust to the jet sweep which means we were out-coached because they had a tactical advantage.
Now I've been one of the voices saying hey let's tone it down a bit please, but there is a lot of truth in ^^^this^^^.
TH hasn't done himself any favors for sure.
Did I miss something? What the hell do taxpayers have to do with Herman? The Athletic Department is self sustaining, meaning it receives no funds from the state or federal government. Deloss worked very hard to achieve that level.
Of course, if someone brings a lawsuit that lands in William Wayne Justice's court (hopefully he is still dead and not coming back), all the above is irrelevant.
Of course, if someone brings a lawsuit that lands in William Wayne Justice's court (hopefully he is still dead and not coming back), all the above is irrelevant.
Denmark, On your last sentence, in order to make that work. We have to have a good play caller. It has been proven that Tim Beck is not that person. I just hope that TH does not wait very long to get the right person for this or the 2018 season is in the crapper.
I pretty much never watch games live anymore. About 90 minutes in I start so I can FF thread everything except the actual plays. Last Saturday I hit the erase button roughly 5 seconds after last snap. Now I"d like to review parts but no longer have LHN. Wish I had all the answers.
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I'm not sure how you got all that out of my post so I'll summarize. This team is not "loaded and ready", BUT this team is good enough to have beaten Maryland handily instead of looking like the SAME unprepared crap team as last year and that starts at the top.
Herman said he thought this team was ready but misread them. How could a mensa coach fall into complacency based off practice? Always assume they are not prepared enough and keep working. Maybe he needs to watch a few Lou Holtz interviews and stop bragging about the progress. The good coaches always know the team is never good enough no matter how good they think they are nor how many games they win.
A team doesn't have to be loaded and ready appear well-coached. But last year we had the catastrophic failure of the offensive line. I feel it had a large effect on the decisions that were made and how we looked. I was hoping that this year we'd improve just by being an average D1 line. I think we're better there. But something is still missing.
AC
2,500+ Posts
Maybe were better up front no better at QB and worse on D and special teams. Is that it?
^^^To this point, we do not have a QB capable of making an offense explosive. The arm is simply not there. The ability to read defenses is not there. SE has the heart of a lion. That alone, without the arm, is not going to be enough.
Also our D played very erratically. they gave up huge plays, made shockingly dumb penalites--overly aggressive mostly.
The D can be fixed. The arm is what it is.
Godz40acres
Happy Feller
I believe that there is enough talent on this roster to reach double digit wins this year. Not saying we will, but that we could.
I think the defense will come around quickly, just as it did last year. I also think that the O-line is already better, and that it will improve. I like our running backs and love our receiving talent.
Like most of us, I was all-in with Herman. My one concern was his arrogance, and the thin skin which was on display in Houston as well.
I never thought I would question his judgment but through 14 games, I am. A very high IQ does not necessarily translate into good judgment. Not at all. In fact, I have known near geniuses who made very questionable decisions, decisions that for mere mortals were not challenging.
How he did what he did at Houston now baffles me. I don’t get it unless Orlando’s D was so potent in that league that it dominated most opponents. He also had a skilled player at QB.
Many of the decisions he has made in his first 14 games have been suspect, but I see his apparent obsessive preference for Ehlinger as the biggest issue at the moment. I am starting to wonder if Herman has gravitated to Ehlinger because he, like Herman, is irrationally confident even when the results don’t justify the confidence. Both see themselves as invincible. You can see it in their faces, and their body language.
Confidence is good. Overconfidence and dilusion are not.
While SE might play better this weekend, my sense is that he remains fools gold, and a last minute meltdown waiting to happen. I don’t know if Buechele or someone else is the answer, I just believe that Ehlinger isn’t.
My buddy mentioned that there may be some similarities now to 1968. In 68 we were coming off three surprisingly mediocre campaigns (6-4), and after I believe a tie and a loss that season, DKR moved his star QB from that position to DB. Bill Bradly went on to prosper, and later start for the Eagles, for years. James Street went on to make history.
I’m not saying that this team has the talent of the 68 team, we don’t. But DKR had the courage to make an extraordinary tough decision and replace Bradley with a player who was once 6th on the depth chart if I am not mistaken.
Herman needs to find some humility, and also the courage to make the change that most observers believe he should. If he does, I think that this program may just get back on the road*.
*I’ll never forget Sports Illustrated’s story during the 68 season entitled, “It Took A Street To Get Texas Back On The Road.”
I think the defense will come around quickly, just as it did last year. I also think that the O-line is already better, and that it will improve. I like our running backs and love our receiving talent.
Like most of us, I was all-in with Herman. My one concern was his arrogance, and the thin skin which was on display in Houston as well.
I never thought I would question his judgment but through 14 games, I am. A very high IQ does not necessarily translate into good judgment. Not at all. In fact, I have known near geniuses who made very questionable decisions, decisions that for mere mortals were not challenging.
How he did what he did at Houston now baffles me. I don’t get it unless Orlando’s D was so potent in that league that it dominated most opponents. He also had a skilled player at QB.
Many of the decisions he has made in his first 14 games have been suspect, but I see his apparent obsessive preference for Ehlinger as the biggest issue at the moment. I am starting to wonder if Herman has gravitated to Ehlinger because he, like Herman, is irrationally confident even when the results don’t justify the confidence. Both see themselves as invincible. You can see it in their faces, and their body language.
Confidence is good. Overconfidence and dilusion are not.
While SE might play better this weekend, my sense is that he remains fools gold, and a last minute meltdown waiting to happen. I don’t know if Buechele or someone else is the answer, I just believe that Ehlinger isn’t.
My buddy mentioned that there may be some similarities now to 1968. In 68 we were coming off three surprisingly mediocre campaigns (6-4), and after I believe a tie and a loss that season, DKR moved his star QB from that position to DB. Bill Bradly went on to prosper, and later start for the Eagles, for years. James Street went on to make history.
I’m not saying that this team has the talent of the 68 team, we don’t. But DKR had the courage to make an extraordinary tough decision and replace Bradley with a player who was once 6th on the depth chart if I am not mistaken.
Herman needs to find some humility, and also the courage to make the change that most observers believe he should. If he does, I think that this program may just get back on the road*.
*I’ll never forget Sports Illustrated’s story during the 68 season entitled, “It Took A Street To Get Texas Back On The Road.”
DKR had a "little assistance" with that decision. Are you suggesting that Herman be provided "assistance"?
No one wants to hear it, but if you compare the 2012 Alamo Bowl and 2013 Texas to Herman at U of H and to Herman at Texas.... it is obvious they were running an Applewhite offense at U of H and Applewhite was calling the plays. Instead of bringing something similar here, he brought us Tim Beck and whatever offense we are trying to run now. Comparable to Strong, he did not bring an aspect of what was working at his last job. I am not saying he needed to bring in Applewhite at all (and this is about Herman, not Applewhite). I am saying he could have brought in a better OC, a similar offense to what worked at U of H or at least not this trying and failing to make Sam Ehlinger into Tim Tebow thing we have going.
It wouldn’t hurt. I really like CDC. My gut feel is that if he isn’t whispering in Herman’s ear yet, he will be soon.
Interesting observation about Applewhite.
One point about geniuses: Often they excel in an area of focus, to the exclusion of a broader view. Basically tunnel vision. That might explain a lot in the case of Herman.
^^^^ THIS.
I think it's more like poor coaching rather than the players not being ready. Why would players not be ready with months of agganizing practice and the anticipation and with something to prove. He's blaming the players? Ugh.
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