To. Orlano?

[nashhorn]

BUT the players telegraph it 15 seconds before the ball is snapped.

In a simple nutshell that is what has always concerned me.

 

[wadster]

Charles O was the only guy that could really get after the QB last year. Hoping that would be Roach this year, but not seeing it and getting thrown out of the game for a stupid penalty didn't help.

D didn't play well at all, but they did make 3 stops in a row in the 1st half in the RZ. What did the O do? Finally get to a 59 yd field goal. 3 pts in a half in the big 12. Really?

This one was on the players as much as the coaches. Duv played horrible. Shack played horrible. Roach gets kicked out. Those are 3 of your Sr. captains and they all brain farted big time. You just aren't going to win many games when your Sr. captains all pick a game to suck at once. Tie the most sacks in the history of the program. Tell me how many games are you going to win doing that. Ossai, Sam, and RJ were some of the few I can remember that played good to very good.

All I got to say is next time we better figure out who #1 and #2 are on their team and we better block those stunts.

 

[dukesteer]

My fear with Todd O is that he may have reached his ceiling, and that perhaps he doesn’t possess the necessary skill set. This has been suggested by others. I sort of feel bad expressing this opinion because I really like TO, and I can see why players probably like playing for him. But the on-field performance of his defenses has been, in general, a disappointment.

Probably before, but certainly at least from the 2018 RRR last year on, slow starts and late collapses seem to be his trademark. 21 points against OU late, and collapses last year against OSU and WVA jump to mind. This year we had a nice mid game run against LSU, then another late collapse. This has become a troubling theme. Perhaps a conditioning issue? One wouldn’t think so.

I would add that I’m not seeing any “consistent” improvement. The same issues repeat: Poor tackling, poor angles and bad coverage. Same story last year, with senior corners, talent on the back end, and a pretty talented D-Line with Omenihu, Nelson, Roach, Hager...

While hopefully OU was a worst case aberration, it might not get much better from this point on with Orlando.

I hope I’m wrong.

 

[zuckercanyon]

I think all of these woes will be cured in a season or two. We've got great young players out there on defense, but, several have gone down to injury, and prior years of recruiting woes have left us less than deep. OU fans never liked Brent Venables (called him Vulnerables), and then he went to Clemson and is now part of National Championship teams. Patience, hornfans!

 

[AC]

I preach patience every year around wk 6. Never freaking works. Happens most years. When CS was Coach it started in wk 2 or so. I think we should go 10-2 or 9-3 regular season. I had hoped for 11-1, but I wish I was 6’2” and l’m not. So we can just keep improving and get there. Of course I’ll never be 6’2” but who cares.

 

[MajesticII]

Orlando would be just fine if he would get rid of that **** 3 man front and use some stunts instead of bull rushing every **** play. Herman needs to hire a really good spread offensive coach to run our offense.

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

It's funny but Todd Orlando has been our DC for 3 years and suddenly he is holding us back? Todd in all that time has been the best DC in the conference.

If you think having one of the bottom 20 pass defenses and maybe 50th run defense in the nation annually makes him the best DC in the conference then I can't help here. The defense has had a couple of good games, Georgia for one, but week in and week out every year his defenses get torched in passing and also give up a lot of long plays. It's inexcusable.

 

[zuckercanyon]

If you think having one of the bottom 20 pass defenses and maybe 50th run defense in the nation annually makes him the best DC in the conference then I can't help here. The defense has had a couple of good games, Georgia for one, but week in and week out every year his defenses get torched in passing and also give up a lot of long plays. It's inexcusable.

It’ll get better as team gets better players and gets deeper

 

[Vol Horn 4 Life]

It’ll get better as team gets better players and gets deeper

I sure hope you are right. My hesitancy is things I've posted several times about all of Orlando's defenses since he's been a coordinator. His BEST pass defense was ranked 66th at Houston. Better players only go so far.

 

[zuckercanyon]

I sure hope you are right. My hesitancy is things I've posted several times about all of Orlando's defenses since he's been a coordinator. His BEST pass defense was ranked 66th at Houston. Better players only go so far.

Oliver was the star, were there other stars?

 

[NM fan]

I mean really folks. Just a couple years ago, we were fearing his departure to SMU, and now he’s worthless. Why can’t we just admit that we simply don’t have the depth in a year when injuries have hit the team harder than anyone could have expected. We are 1to 2 years away from being anywhere near OU (unfortunately)!!! Seriously, how many starters are out or playing hurt. How many of our current players are Freshmen or Sophomores. We currently have the 5th ranked class. Day after beating Georgia, fans were all in, and now we are looking to make coaching changes??? I say let’s stay the course.

 

[dukesteer]

I mean really folks. Just a couple years ago, we were fearing his departure to SMU, and now he’s worthless. Why can’t we just admit that we simply don’t have the depth in a year when injuries have hit the team harder than anyone could have expected. We are 1to 2 years away from being anywhere near OU (unfortunately)!!! Seriously, how many starters are out or playing hurt. How many of our current players are Freshmen or Sophomores. We currently have the 5th ranked class. Day after beating Georgia, fans were all in, and now we are looking to make coaching changes??? I say let’s stay the course.

Orlando seems to struggle with pass heavy offenses and that’s mostly what we face in this conference. While the showing in the Sugar Bowl was excellent, Georgia does not run the type of offense we see most often in this conference. Therein lies the issue, and it has been there since he came here. More talent should help but as I pointed out above, last year we had senior corners, a strong DL with a DE that’s prospering at the next level, strong safeties and a good mid level. But we struggled mightily last year as well against teams like OU, OSU, WVA... I’m not sure TO is the guy to handle the teams we are facing in the Big 12.

Like I said, I hope I’m wrong.

 

[MajesticII]

I don't think anyone wants anyone fired. I think we want Orlando to wise up and use a four man front with stunts that even middle school teams use instead of the 3 man front with only bull rushes. We also want Herman to implement an offense with an explosive run game with some imagination instead of slow to the hole runs up the gut over and over and over.....and a passing attack like most spread teams use that gets WRs open in space.

 

[Austin_Bill]

My fear with Todd O is that he may have reached his ceiling, and that perhaps he doesn’t possess the necessary skill set. This has been suggested by others. I sort of feel bad expressing this opinion because I really like TO, and I can see why players probably like playing for him. But the on-field performance of his defenses has been, in general, a disappointment.

When I was reading this post, my first thought was I have heard this before. I thought for a while and realized this was the exact thing that was said of Colt McCoy after the 2007 season. He's reached his peak, doesn't have the necessary skill set, yada yada yada. I'm not ready to give up on Orlando, especially in a year with so many injuries.

Orlando would be just fine if he would get rid of that **** 3 man front and use some stunts instead of bull rushing every **** play. Herman needs to hire a really good spread offensive coach to run our offense.

I've been saying this for a while, feels good to know others are now seeing what I'm seeing.

I mean really folks. Just a couple years ago, we were fearing his departure to SMU, and now he’s worthless. Why can’t we just admit that we simply don’t have the depth in a year when injuries have hit the team harder than anyone could have expected. We are 1to 2 years away from being anywhere near OU (unfortunately)!!! Seriously, how many starters are out or playing hurt. How many of our current players are Freshmen or Sophomores. We currently have the 5th ranked class. Day after beating Georgia, fans were all in, and now we are looking to make coaching changes??? I say let’s stay the course.

I knew going into this season we would struggle against the pass, but only because of in-experienced corners, had no idea we would have such a terrible pass rush. Nor did I expect to see so many injuries. It's a perfect recipe for disaster.

Orlando seems to struggle with pass heavy offenses and that’s mostly what we face in this conference. While the showing in the Sugar Bowl was excellent, Georgia does not run the type of offense we see most often in this conference. Therein lies the issue, and it has been there since he came here. More talent should help but as I pointed out above, last year we had senior corners, a strong DL with a DE that’s prospering at the next level, strong safeties and a good mid level. But we struggled mightily last year as well against teams like OU, OSU, WVA... I’m not sure TO is the guy to handle the teams we are facing in the Big 12.

Like I said, I hope I’m wrong.

Curious who doesn't struggle with these offenses? I'm curious to see how Bama does against the Lsu offense. They are as banged up as we are.

Even if Orlando isn't the guy, Texas has no shortage of coaches in the system that can coach the defense. Starting with Beaty and then Chris Ash. Both are damn good defensive coaches. They just suck as head coaches.

 

[dukesteer]

To folks like AB, Maj and MN Fan, are you really sold on Orlando and believe that it’s only a matter of time and with better players before he rights the ship? Personally, I am generally concerned although, because we won’t be facing an OU or LSU over the next six games, the stats will certainly begin to improve. (Could they get any worse?)

Manny Díaz started out as a wiz kid. We were afraid that we might lose him to a HC job after Year 1. Then his D tanked and he was relieved of his duties.

Strong & Bedford started out, well, competitive. Then, in Year 2, Strong demoted his good friend, because he had no choice.

We all thought the world of Orlando coming in from Houston and also after his first year here. But if we look at the numbers objectively since Year 1, and in particular this year, they are very troubling.

Yes, we were afraid of losing TO to SMU a couple of years ago. But that observation has little to do with the fact that we are now watching a train wreck — too often — on that side of the ball.

My contention is simply this:

With the athletes we have, while there have been injuries (mostly to our deepest position) and there is youth, I expected more, much more, than what we are seeing.

Didn’t each of you?

 

[ViperHorn]

The mark of a good coordinator is having a scheme that doesn't crash with injuries. The Texas defense didn't crash against ou - it suffered a nuclear meltdown. Couldn't tackle; couldn't cover; but somehow found the bus by the locker room door after the game.

Herman has to do something if the defense struggles against Lester on Saturday.

 

[MajesticII]

We have good enough athletes to put a good ( not great ) defense on the field even with our injuries. We just need to run four down linemen and use enough stunting to keep the OL guessing and put pressure on a QB so he can't pick our injuried secondary apart.....Use our LBs wisely to keep QB rushes in check. We do not have the athletes on the DL to run this 3-3-5. Its disrespectful to the Seniors to use this when you know you don't have the right personnel, especially when we ran a four man front vs Georgia for the big bowl win.

 

[zuckercanyon]

We have good enough athletes to put a good ( not great ) defense on the field even with our injuries. We just need to run four down linemen and use enough stunting to keep the OL guessing and put pressure on a QB so he can't pick our injuried secondary apart.....Use our LBs wisely to keep QB rushes in check. We do not have the athletes on the DL to run this 3-3-5. Its disrespectful to the Seniors to use this when you know you don't have the right personnel, especially when we ran a four man front vs Georgia for the big bowl win.

Who are these 4 DL's?

 

[MajesticII]

Who are these 4 DL's?

When I say down linemen I include DE who could also be in a 2 pt, but are actually DL. We have about 13 DL on the roster....Take your pick Roach, Jones, Bimage, MPagi, Graham, Giles, Carson, Chisholm, Warren, Sweat, Wilbon, Ojomo, Coburn, and an number of these guys could play a 2pt rush end....Ossai, Adeoye, Mitchell, McCullouch, Vaugns, Gbenda, Tillman....the others you don't use as DE can man the LB spots.

 

[AC]

MajesticII,

I am just guessing here. You played LB? You know defense. I don't always agree with your knee jerk responses but when you take your time and really analyze our D. You're accurate. Seems like you have played some defense before. But I agree with your above post. Too bad we have zero input. My posts from a few days ago explain my theory on how TH plans things out. He talks 1-0 each week but to me he game plans for the entire season. He kind of waved the white flag for this first OU game being so conservative, really on both sides of the ball but especially D. Probably due to the injuries. I wonder if they had used your plan in general, would we have faired better? You know their job is much tougher than we know? Perhaps they asked this question: if we use the 4 man front in this game what will we defend them with for the CCG? Maybe they were trying to put a lot of "Cowboy Package" 3 man front on film for OU. Then surprise them in December when we are healthy?
Several of those players you listed above rarely get on the field, TO and TH know why.

 

[MajesticII]

AC,
You aren't going to "surprise" a good offensive scheme. OL are coached to block defenders based on whether they are covered or uncovered on the LOS, so being in a 3 or 4 or even a 5 man front is not going to make them bust assignments. What you do with those 3,4 ,or 5 guys is what causes issues ( see our OL vs OU's DL ). To stop the run you have to fill gaps.There are 6 gaps/holes plus the outside edge the defensive front has to defend. Basically 8 gaps/holes. You can't fill enough gaps with only 3 DL, and you only occupy 3 OL leaving 2 ( 3 if TE or RB blocks ) to block LBs or blitzes ......Nothing left to stop the run but safeties and corners, and ours are either all hurt or can't tackle.......SMH. Why anyone who says you have to stop the run first ( which is every great DC in football history ) would want to line up in a 3-3-5 is beyond common sense, unless you have 5 star BEASTS like Ndamukong Suh kinda guys up front.
Our offense makes me shake my head too.

 

[Austin_Bill]

To folks like AB, Maj and MN Fan, are you really sold on Orlando and believe that it’s only a matter of time and with better players before he rights the ship? Personally, I am generally concerned although, because we won’t be facing an OU or LSU over the next six games, the stats will certainly begin to improve. (Could they get any worse?)

Manny Díaz started out as a wiz kid. We were afraid that we might lose him to a HC job after Year 1. Then his D tanked and he was relieved of his duties.

Strong & Bedford started out, well, competitive. Then, in Year 2, Strong demoted his good friend, because he had no choice.

We all thought the world of Orlando coming in from Houston and also after his first year here. But if we look at the numbers objectively since Year 1, and in particular this year, they are very troubling.

Yes, we were afraid of losing TO to SMU a couple of years ago. But that observation has little to do with the fact that we are now watching a train wreck — too often — on that side of the ball.

My contention is simply this:

With the athletes we have, while there have been injuries (mostly to our deepest position) and there is youth, I expected more, much more, than what we are seeing.

Didn’t each of you?

So far there is only one coach on this staff that has proven he needs to be replaced. That is Wareheim. Orlando is struggling with his defense because we have a lot of square pegs going into round holes. I blame some of this issue on the current staff, but they are still dealing with Charlie's recruits. Can we be better if we changed our scheme, possibly, but we are doing good against other teams not in the top 10.

The mark of a good coordinator is having a scheme that doesn't crash with injuries. The Texas defense didn't crash against ou - it suffered a nuclear meltdown. Couldn't tackle; couldn't cover; but somehow found the bus by the locker room door after the game.

Herman has to do something if the defense struggles against Lester on Saturday.

It's a huge jump going from getting beat by LSU and blowu and getting beat by Kansas. But if we struggle to beat Kansas I might start to learn your direction. I personally think tweeks need to happen, but nothing is going to make us get more experienced in the defensive backfield except more experience.

 

[Statalyzer]

Why anyone who says you have to stop the run first ( which is every great DC in football history )

Although passing is more favored now than at any time in football history.

 

[MajesticII]

Although passing is more favored now than at any time in football history.

But you have to stop the run first and make them one dimensional. If they can do both , they will kill you...Like OU did last week. You stop the run and put them in 2nd and 3rd and long, that gives the defense the advantage knowing the offense has to throw. You can put your ears back and go get the QB being alert to draws or screens.

 

[old65horn]

You quoting to agree or to disagree?

Seven point loss to OU means we are at Kansas’ level?

Apparently I was right to worry about Kansas, and the rest of the schedule.

 

[old65horn]

I wish I was 6’2” and l’m not

I wish I was 6'2" again. Old age and severe joint problems have reduced me to just 5'11".

I have had to add AKA "shorty" to my nickname.

 

[VYFan]

Apparently I was right to worry about Kansas, and the rest of the schedule.

Dang, that's a whole week of worrying I missed out on--I'll never be able to go back and worry during last week!

Kansas darn near beat us, so in that, you were right.

(Or should I go for the argument that I really never felt Kansas was in the game, even if the score was close?)

 

[old65horn]

Dang, that's a whole week of worrying I missed out on--I'll never be able to go back and worry during last week!

Kansas darn near beat us, so in that, you were right.

(Or should I go for the argument that I really never felt Kansas was in the game, even if the score was close?)

Yea, My freshman roommate and best friend until he passed 20 years ago once told me that I worry better than anyone he knows. Not a character trait that I would recommend.

 

[ShAArk92]

3 turnovers and a couple of key stops kept us in this game.
The D did not lose this game.

when you have to have 49 to win ... I'd say your D has some issues. ST scored 2 of those 49 needed, to be sure. Offense wasn't getting it done after the first two possessions. We lived on a prayer every subsequent possession.

But the D was a hot mess against a team which should have faced our 2s/3s backups for most of the 2nd Half. Not scrambling with a friendly clock to win it with a Happy Feller type FG.

 

[ShAArk92]

when you have to have 49 to win

disregard ... I thought this was of the Kansas game ... saw the OP is 12 Oct ... and Boomer.

my mistake.