The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming

[OUBubba]

Zelensky said there were no quid pro arrangements nor was there extortion.

POTUS WITHHELD MILITARY AID ASKING FOR A FAVOR. WHILE A HOT WAR WAS GOING ON. Get out of here with that weak stuff. You guys should have pulled back the neck protector and let them get his jugular. The gop would be stronger and our nation would be stronger.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Yeah. I more or less admitted that. Sometimes your reading comprehension is very slow. He is brave to stay in Ukraine no doubt. But how do you know he is fighting? Social media photos? Take a look.



There is lots of misinformation on both sides.

Let's start with whomever created that post. I looked up each of those twitter accounts on the left. Only one is media (Israeli) and they falsely claimed Zelinsky was on the front lines fighting for his people the others are random nobodies or accounts hoping to get retweets that aren't media related.

Emily Schrader: Bonified columnist in Israel! Accurate.

Fahad Tyagi: 4 followers, 19 tweets. Account is a nobody. Although...dude simply said he's a leader in citing old pictures. The tweet doesn't claim what the poster says.
Victor Babatunde: Website developer, 53k followers...rarely tweets but rather retweets. Definitely not a media person. Looks like he's based in Africa.
Balucy (aka Dale Balucy): 503 followers...not media just a random person on the internet.
Alex Plitsas: Former US Military now works in foreign policy at a think tank. He never claimed Zelinsky was on the front lines, was fighting only that "here he is in camo and kevlar" as a response to those claiming he's a weak President.
Green (aka @greenaugustus12): Not media...166k followers but the accounts claim is to "post everything beautiful" whatever that means. Again, they simply said Zelensky was a great leader and used the old photos.

This dude that posted the claim is more guilty of propaganda than all but 1 of those accounts he cited. He claimed a narrative that he didn't demonstrated exists and you accepted it. It goes without saying that none of the accounts above are "US OR NATO" related.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Zelensky said there were no quid pro arrangements nor was there extortion.

What would you expect him to say given he needed those Javelins and US support, regardless of whether an R or D was sitting in the White House. To him, they are the US. He deftly navigated a situation created by Trump which again demonstrated significant leadership. For the rest of us you simply need to read the transcript to see what was occurring.

 

[Garmel]

POTUS WITHHELD MILITARY AID ASKING FOR A FAVOR. WHILE A HOT WAR WAS GOING ON. Get out of here with that weak stuff. You guys should have pulled back the neck protector and let them get his jugular. The gop would be stronger and our nation would be stronger.

He did not. Yeah, it's really weak when the person who was supposedly being extorted said there was no quid pro.

 

[Horn6721]

Garm
As we see over and over facts truth and reality don't matter people of that ilk.
They seem to want to drop as many babbus as they can

 

[Garmel]

What would you expect him to say given he needed those Javelins and US support, regardless of whether an R or D was sitting in the White House. To him, they are the US. He deftly navigated a situation created by Trump which again demonstrated significant leadership. For the rest of us you simply need to read the transcript to see what was occurring.

Pure speculation based on zero fact. I read the transcript and there wasn't anything there. He asked for a favor and did not imply that you have to do this or else. You think he would be trying a shakedown with people listening in on both sides?

 

[Seattle Husker]

India is pursuing their own interests which every nation and individual should be doing.

If every individual pursues the best outcome for themselves the best possible outcome will come about for the world.

If that was the case there would have been no "Allies" in WWII. We'd all have retreated within our borders and let the Axis pickoff every country 1x1.

In this case, we have what most of us see is an egregiously belligerent tyrant violating international norms and shedding what will most assuredly be massive amounts of bloodshed for their nationalistic reasons. We're witnessing most of the world, even countries that have historically been neutral using their economic power to stand up to the bully and say "this is not right".

 

[Horn6721]

Now the Foreign Ministerof Russia, Lavrov, is demanding the US remove its' nukes from Europe
Russia demands withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Europe - 03/01/2022 (lodivalleynews.com)

 

[Seattle Husker]

Except the US is pushing wind and solar energy. India's energy minister already said "no thanks, we are going to mine and burn our coal."

Coal usage as a % of their total energy consumption peaked for India in 2014 at ~45%. It's pulled back a few % but remained steady. Solar/Wind, Hydro and Nuclear have begun to emerge in their energy mix but are still <5%. They are strong users of Biofuels and waste which supplies nearly 20% of their energy.

India - Countries & Regions - IEA

If you've ever been to India their population density is a HUGE problem creating massive amounts of environmental challenges, including air pollution. India has to balance the energy needs to fuel their growth against environmental impact. Their density doesn't allow them the benefit of massive wind and solar farms that we get in the US. They simply don't have any extra land to use for anything other than growing food.

 

[Seattle Husker]

[opens door, tosses in grenade, closes door]

I wouldn't say Biden is leading it, at least publicly, but the US is absolutely participating in what are by any measure the most devastating sanctions since Iran and if you compare the size of the economy may be worse. The West froze $640B in Russian foreign which ostensibly could be used to prop up the Ruble. Russia began their effort to diversify after the sanctions placed on them in Crimea. I doubt Putin in his wildest dreams imagined sanctions this significant. The last nail in the coffin would be energy sales as that's their lone lifeline right now.

I don't see the US in the lead position as much as Co-Lead with the EU.

 

[Musburger1]

As far as devastating sanctions, it may turn out to be “mutual destruction” of both Russian and Western economies. Don’t count your chickens before they are hatched.

 

[OUBubba]

He did not. Yeah, it's really weak when the person who was supposedly being extorted said there was no quid pro.

And there was “no threat of war” either, right?

 

[Musburger1]

Now the Foreign Ministerof Russia, Lavrov, is demanding the US remove its' nukes from Europe
Russia demands withdrawal of US nuclear weapons from Europe - 03/01/2022 (lodivalleynews.com)

What’s unreasonable about the demand? There aren’t any foreign nukes in North America.

Yeah, but the US isn’t threatening its neighbors. Well, neither was Russia until the missiles began encroaching.on its borders. Now they’ve lashed out. Gee, how irrational they are.

 

[Horn6721]

Mus
So the placing of nukes in Europe is a new recent event?
Should we pretend there was never a cold war?

 

[bystander]

What would you expect him to say given he needed those Javelins and US support, regardless of whether an R or D was sitting in the White House. To him, they are the US. He deftly navigated a situation created by Trump which again demonstrated significant leadership. For the rest of us you simply need to read the transcript to see what was occurring.

If Hunter was doing something wrong and using his position to enrich himself, then which Ukrainian should Trump have asked to inquire about it?

 

[Horns11]

If Hunter was doing something wrong and using his position to enrich himself, then which Ukrainian should Trump have asked to inquire about it?

Except the "favor" regarding the Javelins later on the call was about Crowdstrike's investigation into whether or not Ukraine framed Russia for cyber interference, not anything Burisma-related.

Anything Trump said after "Giuliani is highly respected" could easily be written off as farcical, but from Zelenskyy's POV, you have the leader of the free world... whose campaign manager and jailed/disgraced close advisor quite literally worked for the corrupt Russian-backed guy you just beat by 9 million votes... telling you to do this and do that. There's no chance he took any of it seriously. So of course he'd tell people there was no quid pro quo, because he had no interest in flattering Trump or following through with Trump's demands.

The GAO literally said that Trump withheld the aid that Congress had appropriated.

 

[Seattle Husker]

If Hunter was doing something wrong and using his position to enrich himself, then which Ukrainian should Trump have asked to inquire about it?

You think Trump picked Burisma at random to ask for law enforcement inquiry? In any other context that's corruption. It was when Rob Blogoyavich tried to sell Obama's Senate seat. You can't use your position for your own political advantage. That is corruption. If he felt a law was broken he has an AG to enforce laws. International laws? There are many avenues that don't require holding out the promised weapons needed to stave off an invader. Corruption shouldn't be viewed through a political lens.

Don't take this as a defense of Hunter Biden who appears to be quite the shitbag who clearly profited from his dad's coattails.

This is purely a statement against a clear attempt at corruption by our POTUS in which his own party chose party over country with the notable exception of a few principled Senators.

That ordeal without a doubt played into Putin's hand. The POTUS was willing to barter Ukranian sovereignty for his own political future. It said that Trump doesn't give 2-shits about Ukraine. As Bolton said, Trump had to be cajoled into giving the Javelins and couldn't find the country on a map.

Not a fan of the Neo-Cons but in this case they saved the US from Trump's worst impules in Ukraine.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

As far as devastating sanctions, it may turn out to be “mutual destruction” of both Russian and Western economies. Don’t count your chickens before they are hatched.

Everything else aside, this what I am most concerned about. Screw Russia, they dug their own hole. Taking us further down the Biden economic hell hole concerns me.

 

[Horn2RunAgain]

You can't use your position for your own political advantage. That is corruption. If he felt a law was broken he has an AG to enforce laws. International laws? There are many avenues that don't require holding out the promised weapons needed to stave off an invader. Corruption shouldn't be viewed through a political lens.

.

In all due respect, the House of Reps and the Senate are full of millionaires. They didn't get to be that way over time on their salaries alone. Political power is used to further both their positions & their finances. If Trump used his position to enrich himself, please provide concrete proof. Some of His financial data (somehow) was made public. I think in all that data made public, he didn't take a penny in salary as POTUS. Can you confirm?

AG? Sessions? Yeah....

The current AG was targeting parents of school kids that dared to speak out against grievances. That should tell us what we need to know about that post in its recent capacity

Proof that AG Garland misled Congress about silencing parents who dissent

Whistleblower Says AG Merrick Garland Lied, FBI Targeting Parents as ‘Threats’ - The Lid

 

[Mr. Deez]

Don't forget the most popular one- The RINO robocall on why everything wrong today is Trump's fault.

Have I said that? I actually corrected Switzer on that point on this very issue.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Yes. But my point is we only know that for sure if we call the bluff. If we agree to pull missile launchers in EE, and Putin still attacks then all bets are off. In that case NATO de-escalated and Russia didn't follow suit. That justifies way more action against them than in the present case. If it is a pretense, I want to have better evidence of that before all hell breaks loose.

Sorry, you lose me with comments like this. The idea that we should unilaterally disarm in Eastern Europe just to find out if the arms are his real concern or if he actually has a bad agenda is just too ridiculous to take seriously. Not that it needs to be said to clear-thinking people, but the evidence to know better is already present, and the risk is far, far too great to take such a gamble. I'd rather not have to risk reinstating the draft and deploying 5 million troops to Europe and for major conflict (and likely tens or hundreds of thousands of Americans dead) just to get us back to where we are today for no reason other than to convince people like you that we "called his bluff."

I'm not sure what else to say. You're very solid on most demestic policy and cultural matters, but on foreign policy, you're a full-blown lunatic. I apologize if that's rude, but I honestly don't know what other conclusion to draw. I'm trying, but I can't help you.

 

[Garmel]

Have I said that? I actually corrected Switzer on that point on this very issue.

Lighten up, Francis. It was a joke.

 

[Garmel]

If Hunter was doing something wrong and using his position to enrich himself, then which Ukrainian should Trump have asked to inquire about it?

Reasonable people understand this. People who watch the MSM don't. Trump did nothing illegal according to the transcript.

 

[Monahorns]

Let's start with whomever created that post. I looked up each of those twitter accounts on the left. Only one is media (Israeli) and they falsely claimed Zelinsky was on the front lines fighting for his people the others are random nobodies or accounts hoping to get retweets that aren't media related.

Them not being in media means they are more reliable not less. You just posted up their follower number. That doesn't mean anything.

At the same time, I recognize there is propaganda on both sides. So not surprising if some of those were also incorrect. The fog of war is a real thing.

 

[Monahorns]

Coal usage as a % of their total energy consumption peaked for India in 2014 at ~45%. It's pulled back a few % but remained steady. Solar/Wind, Hydro and Nuclear have begun to emerge in their energy mix but are still <5%. They are strong users of Biofuels and waste which supplies nearly 20% of their energy.

Who are you arguing against? This is all non sequitur.

 

[Monahorns]

The idea that we should unilaterally disarm in Eastern Europe just to find out if the arms are his real concern or if he actually has a bad agenda is just too ridiculous to take seriously.

Once again you totally misunderstand what I say. At this point it seems intentional and an excuse to slander and insult.

you're a full-blown lunatic. I apologize if that's rude, but I honestly don't know what other conclusion to draw. I'm trying, but I can't help you.

And there it is...

Your neocon mind wipe is complete I guess. You get full access to the club. I hope you and David French, David Frum, and Michael McFaul get along. If you are to the right of them they will do the same to you that you are doing to me. Have fun.

 

[OUBubba]

Once again you totally misunderstand what I say. At this point it seems intentional and an excuse to slander and insult.



And there it is...

Your neocon mind wipe is complete I guess. You get full access to the club. I hope you and David French, David Frum, and Michael McFaul get along. If you are to the right of them they will do the same to you that you are doing to me. Have fun.

You obfuscate and such to argue with me and when I call you out on it you reference some obscure fact. Literally, like playing chess against a smart pigeon - you might do well on the board but you're still gonna **** all over it. Deez said it more politely than some may have.

 

[OUBubba]

What’s unreasonable about the demand? There aren’t any foreign nukes in North America.

Yeah, but the US isn’t threatening its neighbors. Well, neither was Russia until the missiles began encroaching.on its borders. Now they’ve lashed out. Gee, how irrational they are.

Russia has been doing sketchy **** for some time. Their psyops have had a real impact on the geopolitical world. Look at Brexit and the 2016 election here. They recognized a weakness in our social media and took advantage. All of that helped destabilize the EU, Nato, and the US; making them relatively stronger.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Once again you totally misunderstand what I say. At this point it seems intentional and an excuse to slander and insult.



And there it is...

Your neocon mind wipe is complete I guess. You get full access to the club. I hope you and David French, David Frum, and Michael McFaul get along. If you are to the right of them they will do the same to you that you are doing to me. Have fun.

I think a lot of people would "misunderstand" what you say, but that's fine. I'll hang out with the neocons and often disagree with them, and you can hang out with Gore Vidal.

 

[Horn6721]

Mr Deez
Don't you think calling someone a full blown lunatic violates the guidelines?