The Border/Illegal Immigration?

Horn6721 said:
The point IMO should be We are not the World's savior.
We can not take in everyone. Are there really only 24,000 Venezuelans who need help?
Isn't the mission of the UN to provide humanitarian aid?
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I agree. I am not advocating to bring them into the US. The US should largely set immigration to 0 right now.
 
Monahorns said:
I know a few Venezuelans. They are hard conservatives. I expect a chunk of any immigrants would be the same after living through the hell they are in. There government has taken over everything and it has led to poverty, hunger, and murder. They most likely will see government interventions as a BAD thing.
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That's great, but their kids and grandkids and so on won't have that first hand experience. They'll hear the media.
 
Mona
I did not take from Guy's remark it had anything to do with skin color. He said nothing about distrusting based on skin color.
His point seems exactly like yours
 
For the short term, we should have very little immigration. We need time to assimilate those who are here. However, in the long term, I'm generally ok with people fleeing communist countries coming in. They tend to make good Americans.
 
Mr. Deez said:
For the short term, we should have very little immigration. We need time to assimilate those who are here. However, in the long term, I'm generally ok with people fleeing communist countries coming in. They tend to make good Americans.
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Woah, slow your roll buddy - you are starting to talk like racist Trump.

More seriously it’s amazing dems don’t have 100% control of the government given the large % of the population who are foreign born or children of foreign born (something like 20% of the population).
 
No immigrant should be allowed in unless they have a sponsorship via employer.

If an argument is made that "bus boys, cooks, construction workers need to COME here to GET work", there's a solution. If employers need such labor, have them place their openings on a state or federal run, non profit Indeed type platform. Have ONE location in each country run by the Indeed type group. (Which will be fully funded by employers, per hire via fee).

Immigrant will trek to that location in their country, make their application. This eliminates (a) longer treks to our border (b) coyotes are no longer needed (c) no more high crime rates of these individuals, since they'll be employed, not penniless and living day to day (d) no more trafficking of young girls or women. Employers will foot the bill for transport
 
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Monahorns said:
How different is that from every other person in the country? I won't distrust people just because they are brown.
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Horn6721 said:
Mona
I did not take from Guy's remark it had anything to do with skin color. He said nothing about distrusting based on skin color.
His point seems exactly like yours
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Right. I was saying people of Venezuelan decent who have never lived there will only hear how Republicans hate Venezuelans from the American media.
 
Horn2RunAgain said:
No immigrant should be allowed in unless they have a sponsorship via employer.

If an argument is made that "bus boys, cooks, construction workers need to COME here to GET work", there's a solution. If employers need such labor, have them place their openings on a state or federal run, non profit Indeed type platform. Have ONE location in each country run by the Indeed type group. (Which will be fully funded by employers, per hire via fee).

Immigrant will trek to that location in their country, make their application. This eliminates (a) longer treks to our border (b) coyotes are no longer needed (c) no more high crime rates of these individuals, since they'll be employed, not penniless and living day to day (d) no more trafficking of young girls or women. Employers will foot the bill for transport
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This is smart, but employers won't go for it. It transfers a lot of costs to them - international transportation, visas, etc., and then when they're employed, the employer will have to withhold income taxes, pay FICA and unemployment taxes, and cover them under workers compensation insurance (at least in states where it's required). That nullifies a big reason why employers hire illegal immigrants. They aren't going to go for that when the employee is desperate enough to get into the US illegally at his own expense (even at great risk of death or serious bodily injury to himself) and then work under the table.
 
Find me a way to keep the system from being easy to beat then we'll talk. I'll even relent on my stance that businesses shouldn't be forced to be doing the government's job.
 
Garm
I see EVerify as the Gov't doing its job, maintaining an accessible data base of people legal to work here. Right now it is kinda half ***.
The number 1 thing that should change immediately is to allow employers to check legal status Before they hire them.
 
Horn6721 said:
Garm
I see EVerify as the Gov't doing its job, maintaining an accessible data base of people legal to work here. Right now it is kinda half ***.
The number 1 thing that should change immediately is to allow employers to check legal status Before they hire them.
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The problem is that we can't seem do anything about the fake IDs that make the system unusable. To make it work some other failsafe method will have to be used that we haven't thought of as of yet.
 
There is that. And there are steps the Gov't can do to cut down on accepting fakes
But you are right. Stop them from sneaking in to begin with is the most efficient way..
There is no 100% effective single solution.
Looks like it needs to be a combo of methods
 
6721,

The government does not want to "cut down" on fake IDs because the illegals are now paying over $6 billion into Social Security by people that will never receive any benefits.

I know I told you, but for the benefit of others, I talked to a DPS trooper in a stop n steal in Jefferson County. He made a stop on Hwy 73 of workers commuting between east Houston and Port Arthur doing construction work for Motiva. 12-13 had same SS ID and used same name and number. He said he could stop ten vehicles and get same story every time.
 
We also give billions in in EITC And ITINS.
It has been researched many times and found the Illegals receive more in benefits than the 6 billion they might leave with IRS
This Forbes article from 2016 explains it.
IRS Admits It Encourages Illegals To Steal Social Security Numbers For Taxes
"What we learned is that ... the IRS continues to process tax returns with false W-2 information and issue refunds as if they were routine tax returns, and say that's not really our job. We also learned the IRS ignores notifications from the Social Security Administration that a name does not match a Social Security number, and you use your own system to determine whether a number is valid."
 
All of the technical issues are easily overcome for E-Verify, IDs and border enforcement. all of the naysayers are just providing excuses for not acting because they don't have the political will, because there are many that profit from the current illegal immigration influx.

- Fake ID's is an easy problem to solve. you won't cure 100% but just a little bit of enforcement will go a long way. Data analytics will help identify routine abusers of ID verification during hiring process.
- EVerify problem. same thing. a little bit of actual enforcement goes a long way.

Our biggest problems are that people that own businesses and real estate benefit disproportionately from illegal immigrants. More bodies mean more demand for products and simultaneously more labor to supply said products at a lower cost. Business owners get to rake the pot on both ends.
 
Horn6721 said:
What don't you understand about the Forbes article?
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that is not a technical problem (the IRS/forbes thing) that is a "Will" problem. It's not that they "can't" enforce it. it is that they don't want to enforce. Even Excel is able to run de-duplication on numbers, I'm absolutely positively sure the IRS could run some sort of duplication red flag program based on SSN's.....easily.....if they wanted to.
 
BOSD Right
here is an explanation from 2012( one can only imagine what the numbers are now) FactCheck.org on just how ignoring one element costs us billions
"Q: Does the IRS pay billions in tax refunds to workers who are in the U.S. illegally?

A: Yes. The Treasury Department’s Inspector General determined that $4.2 billion was paid in 2010, up from less than $1 billion in 2005. Leading Democrats are resisting a bill that would stop future payments."

Tax Credits for Illegal Immigrants - FactCheck.org
 
my guess is that they know that the natural evolution of identifying duplicates is that they will then be asked why they didn't audit the duplicates and identify the fake accounts. And then they will be asked to reveal the fakes and then those fake taxpayers will need to be prosecuted. they have decided for political reasons that this is not what they want. and a big part of it is what Sabre said about more money coming in from that pool to SSI than is expected to pay out. It helps to keep the pyramid scheme afloat for a little longer.
 
Horn6721 said:
BOSD
BUT we are paying out much more than the 6 billion.
And that does not factor in the welfare costs
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as a whole we are, but i don't think it is coming from the specific SSI pool. we pay out lots via school finance, etc but those are different streams of cash. the particular third-rail of SSI politics allows and even requires that the program "appear" to be solvent. If we didn't have illegals paying into it, the account would be depleted in a couple of years rather than 2034/35 as now predicted.
 
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