Texas vs West Virginia game thread

Dish Falk said:
Well, all losses are on coaches, at least the good ones will say that, so I am not sure you are doing anything but stating the obvious. But here are my reasons:

1). Sam’s development is nothing short of awesome. I’m not sure if you were in the Buechelle camp at the beginning year, but many were.
2). The offense played awesome.
3). The effort and spirit of the football team is inspired. Yes, our defense is not playing well right now, but they are banged up. That doesn’t totally make up for it, but context matters.
4) Any football game is a collection of plays. In hindsight, it is easy to say he should’ve gone for it, but what would you have said if it had failed like WVU’s had and then WVU won by three at the end? Folks on this board in the past have said in those cases that Herman should not have gone for it and should’ve taken the points. Yes he knew this was an offensive shootout in the first half, but things had slowed in the second half for whatever reason. For whatever reason, his instincts (which I would submit are a bit more honed than yours or mine — although you might be Bill Belicheck for all I know) told him to kick it. He did.

Even the best coaches make mistakes. If you are convinced that he did, maybe think about cuttting him slack given his record this year. Just a thought.
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DF- well thought out post. Of course the outcomes of games are "on the coaches" but you seem to want to give TH a big pass on this decision. I agree with your points: # 1 2 3, however with all due respect, I still stand by my statement that TH playcalling at the end cost us THIS game.
 
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Taking a step back, I think it’s reasonable to observe that many of us were very concerned about the offense going into the season, and confident about the defense. As the season has evolved, from my perspective, the offense has been a pleasant surprise, and Sam has been stellar. The defense has been surprisingly ineffective all too often.

I see a pattern: The D is a no-show for about the first twenty minutes of many games — like today, last week, OU, USC, and Maryland. They seem to stiffen for about the next 20 to 30 minutes, then revert back to how they performed at the beginning of many of the games. While “perhaps” injuries were a factor today, that excuse cannot legitimately be used in the other losses, or in the late collapse in Dallas.

Perhaps it’s personnel or conditioning but I have to wonder about the coaching. All too often players seem to be out of position, taking poor angles, and not wrapping up. We do have a few young players, but many of the seniors, like Locke and Wheeler, do not seem to be stepping up.

I hope Todd O can get his unit together but I find it hard to be optimistic that we can avoid a repeat next week of this pattern in Lubbock.
 
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I missed the series when we had a 2nd down on their one yard line early in the second half. I noticed online that we lost four yards on a run by Sam (rollout?). Was it a long yard or what? I'm wondering why we didn't go up the middle with our 235 lb QB a couple of times maybe.
 
Can you get a pass rush or stop the run with a true three man line and all four linebackers playing back? It seems our scheme cannot dominate the line at all; either a pass rush or at least stopping the run. We are kind of caught in the middle coming up to the net during a tennis match or something. Always in no man's land.
 
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Herman supporter here (please no throwing of stones)….um, I'm not even mad at Orlando....Most of our studs on defense may have recently turned 19.....if you'd have told me we were 6-3 after 9, I'd have said SOLD! Last 3 against TT up in Lubbock, Iowa State here and then KU there....I'm saying 7-5 is a given with 8-4 a good possibility and maybe, Ricky Bobby, juuuusst maybe, 9-3. This staff has done more with less while inserting some very young uber talent that will pay dividends next year. I hated this loss just like anyone else, but it was a hard fought game, "who-has-the-ball-last" type of shootout. Texas fought yet came up short. We're headed to Lubbock next Saturday and I have confidence we'll show up and perform well. I know everyone wants to win more right this instant but if we get to 8 regular season wins (and actually even only 7) we'll have bested last season's performance and will be working towards an even better season next year.
 
Pomspoms said:
We could have won except for a couple of decisions by Herman and the officials. Bad marking the ball. Sam had a first down reversed. The o-line did great. Too bad our defense is like a sieve. We need bigger d- lineman.
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We only have two DE's and no DT's on our commitment list for 2019.
 
bystander said:
Can you get a pass rush or stop the run with a true three man line and all four linebackers playing back? It seems our scheme cannot dominate the line at all; either a pass rush or at least stopping the run. We are kind of caught in the middle coming up to the net during a tennis match or something. Always in no man's land.
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Three down lineman is stupid and they ran all over us. Im over this lightening package. It sucks and the score proves it.
 
Matagorda said:
Three down lineman is stupid and they ran all over us. Im over this lightening package. It sucks and the score proves it.
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It clearly has no tactical advantage up front. It relies upon superior personnel and if they can't whip their man up front then we lose.
 
WorsterMan said:
DF- well thought out post. Of course the outcomes of games are "on the coaches" but you seem to want to give TH a big pass on this decision. I agree with your points: # 1 2 3, however with all due respect, I still stand by my statement that TH playcalling at the end cost us THIS game.
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We can agree to disagree but I just think you need several play calls were so egregious as to be outside the range reasonable play calling.

As for giving TH “a pass,” not so fast my friend. From an analytics and a situational perspective, it’s very hard to argue the 4th down call was wrong. From an analytics standpoint, going for it on 4th is, at its very best, a push. There’s not only the odds of conversion but the odds of scoring a TD thereafter. Crunching those numbers reveals its about a push vs a FG try. Even if the weighted value of going for it were a little better, other factors support it. From a situational standpoint, the FG put us up a TD and kept the little momentum we had. On the other hand, not going for it risked giving up the chance of getting 4 more points.

But besides this particular call, what other calls were so egregious down the stretch? I suppose you could say he should have kicked a FG on the 4th and goal earlier, but again seems a stretch based on analytics because odds of scoring a TD post conversion there are close to 100% plus the situational factors. In any case, it’s easy to disagree from the stands, I just personally don’t see an egregiously wrong play call here. Whether you or I would’ve done something different isn’t that relevant.
 
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you can't continue to play this lightning package and not expect to have any semblance of run defense. In Orlando's defense, we don't have the D Linemen to run a typical 4 man front, and we lose so much containment and lack of any pressure as a result. asking your DB's to blitz to make up the lack of personnel on the defensive front
 
Not going for it on 4th and 1 doomed us. We showed no ability to stop their offense for 3 quarters today. In fact they did whatever the hell they wanted. Why give them the opp to tie us up? It's like Jason Garrett was on our sidline
 
Offense was great but I have to bring back my continual issue: TV probably could not see but I watch the receivers a lot, especially when Colin gets man on and we gave up 14 points on two missed open opportunities. I just do not understand how Sam cannot catch those coverages if I do. Seriously, he (Colin) got wide open on two separate plays with man coverage, and Sam was NOT under duress, on one he made the first down to another receiver but had he thrown to Colin they were TDs.
 
Dish Falk said:
We can agree to disagree but I just think you need several play calls were so egregious as to be outside the range reasonable play calling.

As for giving TH “a pass,” not so fast my friend. From an analytics and a situational perspective, it’s very hard to argue the 4th down call was wrong. From an analytics standpoint, going for it on 4th is, at its very best, a push. There’s not only the odds of conversion but the odds of scoring a TD thereafter. Crunching those numbers reveals its about a push vs a FG try. Even if the weighted value of going for it were a little better, other factors support it. From a situational standpoint, the FG put us up a TD and kept the little momentum we had. On the other hand, not going for it risked giving up the chance of getting 4 more points.

But besides this particular call, what other calls were so egregious down the stretch? I suppose you could say he should have kicked a FG on the 4th and goal earlier, but again seems a stretch based on analytics because odds of scoring a TD post conversion there are close to 100% plus the situational factors. In any case, it’s easy to disagree from the stands, I just personally don’t see an egregiously wrong play call here. Whether you or I would’ve done something different isn’t that relevant.
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Dish, you are WAAAAAY over-thinking & over-analyzing all the above. That FG was not the right decision. We had major momentum and finally had them on their heels with a running game that was moving the chains. Herman has gone for on 4th and short many times. Why he chose to take 3 (which was also not a gimme) is beyond me. I’m on the side of go for it and try to put that game away with a TD. That’s what Holgerson did....he knew the risk he was taking, but he also was super confident our defense could not stop a play for 2 yards. That’s how Herman got out coached....attacking with your team’s strength vs your opponents weakness.

But, as they say, hindsight is 20-20!
 
Dish Falk said:
All the negative Herman posts make us sound like Angy. They aren’t warranted. We have met or exceeded expectations this year. (Go back and check predictions of this board at the start of the year.). Our defense has NOT played well. It is banged up, but still we aren’t doing basic things. Personally, I was proud of our team, their effort and their sportsmanship. I would not want to call Dana Holgorsen my coach, and I would not like it if our QB acted the way Grier did. Hook’em
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I'm not sure I can take aggy comparisons from someone that could not even spell Disch properly.

That being said, there is no question the D had sucked before this came. That is on coaches as well as the players and the buck ultimately stops with MensaBoy and The Binder.

It does not help matters that the players have checked out for the season. Yet another week with suspensions for not being on time. With the season on the line and they cannot be on time? Maybe a little less time on social media and doing their fat little girlfriends is in order...

In TWO weeks, we have gone from path to the CCG to essentially irrelevant. The coaches have to own a big part of that...
 
No matter what happened in the 57 minutes prior, this game like every game we play, was coming down to a last drive scenario. Even if we are up by 21 late.We would of just relaxed. If we were down by 14, the D would show up till we get the lead and then blow it. To get into specific play calling is not relevant.
There is a distinct pattern here. And it's between the ears-mental. And Herman needs to fix it.
 
I thought it was interesting that in the morning paper, Charles O. was quoted as saying that he recognized the QB keeper and yelled it out . He said he was screaming it. He said Chris Nelson passed it on down the line. Yet the guy playing in Hager’s spot, no 49, still got sucked in and let him around the corner, where there was no LB, as usual.
 
Clean said:
I thought it was interesting that in the morning paper, Charles O. was quoted as saying that he recognized the QB keeper and yelled it out . He said he was screaming it. He said Chris Nelson passed it on down the line. Yet the guy playing in Hager’s spot, no 49, still got sucked in and let him around the corner, where there was no LB, as usual.
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Where's Stonie Clark when you need him? ;)
Pretty inconceivable that nobody spied the QB.
I'm getting pretty tired of excuses.
And if you are going to show up after a loss like this and say you are fine, "who would have expected us to be here at the start of the season", then you are the one sounding like aggy.
Another 7-5 seasons sucks balls.
 
This team has lost two nail-biters in a row. Both were very winnable. But as Bill Parcells said, "You are what your record says you are." Coulda woulda shoulda is a losers lament.

This might be better team than any of Charlie's and possibly Mack's last two years. The arrow is up HOWEVER, the holes in recruiting in the trenches are storm clouds on the horizon.

Are we saying this 3-man line lightening scheme is due to depth problems on the D-line? If so we will continue to have problems especially if we try to run man to man coverage.

My take anyway.
 
From my post yesterday (in the stadium you knucklenoggin!)

Good:

Sam and the O have made great strides in production
Special Teams played well overall ... nice to be able to get touchbacks and not need to challenge the KO coverage!

BAD:

Defense has lost its way. Even this curious 3-3-5 scheme was miles better 3 weeks ago. 3 down linemen surrenders the LOS without having a correctly called blitz.

UGLY:

We are beginning to show many signs of lacking self-discipline. The obvious ones which were publicized ...

but who saw Christian-Giles after the game ... DURING the post game "The Eyes of Texas"

a scruff at mid-field with him and a few others. But this genius shoved a DPS trooper, one of about 1/2 dozen who were doing "crowd control" of PLAYERS. Why he wasn't hooked-up on the spot is amazing to me.

I was OK last week.
This week ... not so much. When you score 41 points, a W should be hung on the schedule. how ridiculous is it to think Duvernay shoulda fell down at the 1 or 2 ... Sam take a knee on 1D, then score with < 30 seconds.

When you can't defend the touchback length of the field for 2 minutes ... you just don't deserve to win.

BAYLOR beat Okie Lite for crying out loud!

Pitiful. We probably have 1 or 2 more losses.

... and this will be an improvement ... how???
 
ShAArk92 said:
Defense has lost its way.
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This^^^. After watching the replay--didn't get to see it live--I think we scored enough to win. Defense of the run was the most disappointing to me. i expected Grier to torch us, but not the run off tackle all day long.

And I thought if we scored 41, which i didn't precict, I thought it would be enough to win. Sam and the O line did well.

Only problem i had with the O was in the 4th quarter was when we got inside the 5 yard line twice and came out with only 3 points.

But really, when we score 41, that should be enough to win the game.
 
moondog_LFZ said:
Pretty inconceivable that nobody spied the QB.
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Watching the replay there was a spy. He took three steps inside at the beginning of the play when the QB took a step forward. Then Greer took it to the flag. Our spy got caught up inside, couldn't escape quickly enough to make the play.
 
mb227 said:
It does not help matters that the players have checked out for the season. Yet another week with suspensions for not being on time. With the season on the line and they cannot be on time? Maybe a little less time on social media and doing their fat little girlfriends is in order...
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I alluded to this after OSU and was criticized but I agree with the observation.

On balance I believe that TH has done a pretty good job this year, through Baylor, but the apparent lack of preparation, effort and focus starting at Stillwater was a red flag for me. Great coaches — and I am hopeful that TH will be in that category sooner rather than later — have to be task masters. Saban and Harbaugh come to mind. Very little tolerance for lack of focus. How we lost it (focus) after reaching 6-1 and being in the national conversation for the first time in 9 years is inexplicable.

The D seems to be in disarray. We are all observing this. I would be more tolerant of the failures yesterday (because of the injuries) had it not been for the poor performance the previous week.

I had thought that Orlando was somewhat of a superstar but the pattern I have seen this year in many games has me wondering. “Start very slow, get behind, stabilize, then revert back to 1st quarter form at the end of the game.”

We’re at another crossroads in the season. We passed the USC test and beat OU, then perhaps lost focus. Finishing 9-3 would be a very nice rebound. 8-4 would be a disappointment, particularly given that we had reached 6-1 before OSU.

Tech will tell us quite a bit about where the program is at the moment, and the proficiency of the coaching staff, particularly Orlando.

...And we all thought that Beck was our biggest liability.
 
dukesteer said:
Tech will tell us quite a bit about where the program is at the moment,
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and evidently Tech can take the ball now???

Had a boomer attend the game with us yesterday, so I obliged him with listening to the TTech network (LOL) ... but he heard the game on the way home.

Boomer eventually woke-up a little bit and stopped the turnovers, but Tech proved they are real enough for us to need full consciousness at kickoff.

We won't be able to recover from consecutive interceptions deep in our end of the field like boomer did ... not without a TT meltdown, too.

Still seeing at least one probably two more losses with the performance of the last two weeks.
 
bystander said:
I missed the series when we had a 2nd down on their one yard line early in the second half. I noticed online that we lost four yards on a run by Sam (rollout?). Was it a long yard or what? I'm wondering why we didn't go up the middle with our 235 lb QB a couple of times maybe.
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No, it was really only half a yard.
 
moondog_LFZ said:
Where's Stonie Clark when you need him? ;)
Pretty inconceivable that nobody spied the QB.
I'm getting pretty tired of excuses.
And if you are going to show up after a loss like this and say you are fine, "who would have expected us to be here at the start of the season", then you are the one sounding like aggy.
Another 7-5 seasons sucks balls.
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Moon, I’ve kinda given u crap here and there this season, so I wanted to back u up in writing on the no excuses front. I’m still surprised at 6-3 (and happy) but recognize that TH has possibly lost any mojo regarding defense. If they were a house of cards he was propping up this season, that house of cards has fallen....
 
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