supreme court decisions of late
- Thread starter huisache
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OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
In Oklahoma it's about school funding. The schools are funded significantly less now than they were in 2008. If the schools were funded properly, public money to subzidize school choice would be OK to me. As it stands now, that takes away from an already underfunded educational system.
Also, is it just me or do a decent % of Supreme Court justices often migrate to the middle?
Oklahoma spends less now than they did in 2008? Having a hard time buying that. Either way, they could triple funding, and the people who oppose school choice would still oppose it.
Liberal justices don't.
That may be true. If they want to spend more, then cut other programs or raise taxes. However, none of that has anything to do with why teacher unions oppose school choice. If it did, then they wouldn't oppose it in states that more heavily fund their public schools. Keep in mind that overall and per pupil, we're among the biggest spenders in the world on public education.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
It's a poop show. Adjusted for inflation it's gone down 26.9 percent. The city conservatives are trying to starve the schools to force school choice. That's my opinion. As long as the conservatives control the committee structure they will succeed. It shifted in 2010, I believe.
However you count it, Oklahoma's per pupil education funding is way down - Oklahoma Policy Institute
We're number 1! With a bullet! #leavenodoubt
However you count it, Oklahoma's per pupil education funding is way down - Oklahoma Policy Institute
We're number 1! With a bullet! #leavenodoubt
I understand the appeal of both for being young and single (although I would strongly argue Houston and Dallas are both better for young professionals 25-35 than Austin.. but that's a matter of taste). I had more "once you settle down and have a family, why would you live there?" in mind.
It's a poop show. Adjusted for inflation it's gone down 26.9 percent. The city conservatives are trying to starve the schools to force school choice. That's my opinion. As long as the conservatives control the committee structure they will succeed. It shifted in 2010, I believe.
However you count it, Oklahoma's per pupil education funding is way down - Oklahoma Policy Institute
We're number 1! With a bullet! #leavenodoubt
They're not doing it to force school choice. Keep in mind that Republicans aren't unified on school choice. They give the illusion that they are at the federal level, but at the state level (where the decisions actually get made), there is great division.
Usually suburban Republicans are pro-school choice. Rural Republicans usually are not, because the school districts are huge employers and very influential in their districts. In fact, as the GOP gets more rural and less suburban, it is probably becoming less receptive to school choice. (Back in the late '90s and early 2000s, some black and Hispanic Democrats were pro-school choice, but most of them have been ousted in primary elections or intimidated into submission.) There's a reason why Texas doesn't have school choice, even though Republicans have had complete control of the state government since 2003. It's because the big GOP gains that gave them majorities in the Legislature were mostly in rural areas, and though most of those guys are very conservative on social and cultural issues, they tend to be hostile to school choice.
When GOP state legislators cut school funding, it's usually to close budget shortfalls without raising taxes and sometimes while cutting taxes. I know you probably assume that social and religious conservatives are dominating the show at state capitols run by the GOP, because cultural issues get media attention. However, as someone who worked in one of those capitols, I can tell you that on the big priorities and high-impact legislation and just day-to-day BS, the donors and money crowd are calling the shots. They'll throw a bone to social conservatives when they have to, but they live for the guys who write the checks. If they're incurring the political risks of cutting school funding, it's to please those guys with tax relief, not to please a bunch of conservatives who want school choice.
I agree that Austin isn't good for young professionals if they're looking to settle down. I spent five years in Austin looking for a respectable wife and never found one. I found some booze-guzzling skanks (lots of them, in fact) but no wife. After a really ****** date with an annoying but hot lawyer chick, my best friend told me to join e-harmony. I initially blew him off but I eventually figured I had nothing to lose. I joined in July 2007, met Mrs. Deez (who lived in Belton) in November, and got married in March 2008. Yep, we're like those cheesy couples in the commercials.
I am against school choice because I would like people to actually vote in school board elections, get involved and fix public schools. They are the way they are because no one votes/cares about education, so the crooks can move in and do what they please without oversight. Seriously.. look at the turnout in school board elections. Even in a major city, if you can find a mere 500 friends to vote for you, you can win a district of tens of thousands of registered voters.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
You may be correct. What I've witnessed from 2 hours away is a legislature willing to toss about any ACORN legislation against the wall seeing if it will stick. Sometimes without even doing a competent edit/replace. The party dictates what can get to committees and it never is a meaningful change. I will say many of the rural Democrats are DINO. In red states now you just have to be a Repub to survive.
I'm not for universal school choice, but I am for school choice for kids who are in districts with underperforming schools. There's no reason for those kids to get hosed just because nobody votes for school board.
I do totally agree on school board elections though. People aren't going to start paying attention to school board elections as the system is currently structured. They're too lazy, and it's too much of a pain in the ***. If you want better turnout, you need to do two things. First, put their elections on the November election date. This May ********* has to go.
Second, make the elections partisan. I don't like partisan politics in general, but having parties nominate someone does signal a degree of information about that candidate's beliefs. If you don't have that, the vote is pretty much superficial. For example, about 20 years ago, I went with my dad to vote in the local election. There was a candidate for school board whose campaign signs said "Because she cares." He voted against her. His rationale? "I don't want someone who cares." The slogan just rubbed him the wrong way - made her sound liberal. Well, she was actually the conservative in the race. If she had been on the ticket as a Republican up against a Democrat, he would have voted for her.
I live in Belton. I didn't know there were actually good women in this area.
There was one until Deez stole her away.
That's the sign of an entrenched majority. They get sloppy. Texas pretty much doesn't have rural Democrats anymore.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
There is a fundamental problem with public schools that have nothing to do with school boards and voting. Voting is red herring.
The problem is that they have no incentive to be good. Their real customers are not kids and parents but school boards and teacher's unions. Voting for 1 of 2 choices both of which are bad is not going to help anything. Community apathy is a product of 1 of 2 things, either they are satisfied with their schools or they have voted with no change. They have been trained to be apathetic by the system.
If parents didn't care then there would be no call for school choice. There would be no private schools. There would be no charter schools. I personally have never met a parent who DIDN'T care about their children's education.
The problem is that parents don't have any real choice in many cases. Give parents choices about where to send their kids for school including their education $s and school performance will improve because there will be competition. Then and only then will the true customers be the kids and the parents.
Why did I think you lived in Dallas?
I don't know if there are a lot of good women there, but there was one. A lot of school teachers who work in Temple and Killeen live in Belton since they don't want to live in those dumpy-*** towns. Belton's actually pretty nice for that area, but it's still got some redneck - like Jake's Chinese Buffet ("best oriental in Bell County"). Her mom still lives there in that neighborhood west of 317 off of Adams.
Oh yes, there are bad parents who do not care. Also, just because a parent cares, does not mean they actually pay any attention to the teachers or overall district administration. For staters, something bad has to actually happen to their kid for them to pay attention. A great many kids and parents are blessed by never having a run in with a truly bad administrator or even teacher (not sure how to classify this privilege but it exists). Then you have all the people who are not parents or are and their kids have graduated high school and they do not care at all.
Maybe I should say "most people do not care about the administration of education even though it directly affects the quality of education."
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There's some truth here, but you're repeating your usual talking point about "the system" where it doesn't apply. The "no choices" excuse is BS. Anybody can run for school board, and there's no political party system rigging things to keep people off the ballot. It's about as open as an orderly electoral system can be. If you can't find a choice in that system, the system isn't the problem. The public is the problem.
The reality is that parents care about education like they care about the deficit. They say they care, because it sounds crazy to say they don't. However, you really care about what you put time, money, and effort into, and 98 percent of voters put almost no time or effort into their school boards. Hell, how many citizens can name a single member of their school board or know where they meet? Very few. The reality is that people care when they see a problem involving their own kids. If their own kids are coasting through the system, they tune it out. For the system in general and for other kids, other than a tiny few, they don't give a crap.
So you think there's a big movement for school choice and see that as evidence that people care? I got news for you. There isn't much of a movement. School choice bills get filed every legislative session. You'll get some parents showing up for hearings, but there's nothing sustained and no significant funding.
By contrast, the anti-voucher movement is an onslaught. I tracked correspondence (letters, emails, and calls) for two members of the legislature when I worked there. These were suburban conservative districts where school choice was most popular. On voucher bills, opposition outnumbered support by about 100-1. Were vouchers really that unpopular? No, but only the opponents cared and were engaged. And this is at the state level where people are far more engaged. At the local school board level, interest in what they're doing is almost non-existent.
4th_floor
Dude, where's my laptop?
Gay-redneck-tigerhoma has the second lowest US spending per pupil in public school at $8097. The private school average tuition in "not OK" is $5938. Guess which one has better results?It's a poop show. Adjusted for inflation it's gone down 26.9 percent. The city conservatives are trying to starve the schools to force school choice. That's my opinion. As long as the conservatives control the committee structure they will succeed. It shifted in 2010, I believe.
However you count it, Oklahoma's per pupil education funding is way down - Oklahoma Policy Institute
We're number 1! With a bullet! #leavenodoubt
Sources: Education Spending Per Student by State
Oklahoma Private Schools By Tuition Cost (2020)
4th_floor
Dude, where's my laptop?
What about the lost generations going through our crappy public schools? They graduate from high school and can't make change for you in the Taco Bell drive through if the electronic cash register is broken. They believe socialism is a viable alternative to capitalism and have no idea about the history of the US or the world. Something drastic needs to change with public schools now. But in the short run, let's allow parents to opt out.
Our schools have failed completely. I do not disagree with you at all. I just do not know how to fix the problem until everyone cares. Maybe school choice is a catalyst for change, maybe it is not. Private schools may be better than public schools, they may not be, it depends on the public and private school. Highland Park, Westlake, San Antonio Reagan, etc are on par with any or better than most private schools. We can all name public schools which certainly are not on par with any private school or even many other public schools. Some public school washout teachers/admins do end up at private schools. I had a couple that have no business around kids, got washed out of public school and ended up at private schools. I do know private school parents tend to be more on top of things, so they will probably get washed out of there even faster, but I do know they end up at private schools.
I definitely feel for the people that live in Houston and more or less HAVE to send their kids to private school. I feel for parents in general. I agree it is not fair that the parents who actually care have to get penalized by everyone else's indifference. Most people though do not like the idea of subsidizing private school for others. I do not think any of this gets solved unless americans start caring in general.
I think just found a West Mall posting that I am in agreement with Htown. Almost fell outta my chair!
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
C,mon Deez.
Anyone can be in the school board, I get it. Then why does it suck so bad? You do what you do repeatedly too, you blame those who aren't in power. I can't speak to all the factors that make the system suck, but we know it does. Maybe it is not political parties, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some other factor in play that helps pick nominees and gives them public support during elections.
The deficit exists because of our banking system and government's marketing around deficits. Yes, the public should be smarter and vote out people but the country has been taught through government schools, ha ha, that deficits don't matter and that government programs are GREAT.
I agree with description about general apathy and the reasons. However, still, does the system, the process, allow normal people to understand what each candidate will do in detail that will make a school better? If a school board candidate has a "plan", how can it be evaluated by a normal voter and linked to actual improvement? It is much easier to find schools who are doing well and send your kids there. That is the only kind of choice that is needed.
I never said there was or not. I just said I think school choice is the key. I think so because consumer choice leads to better quality and lower cost for any service where that dynamic is allowed to exist.
What you are describing is the problem with the system and public choice. There is a concentrated harm to public schools and unions but diluted for the population. People without children won't care. Parents with adult children won't care. People who will care are only parents during the window of their children being in school. If they feel their children are doing well, they won't care either. Or politicians who value freedom and choice. Not many of those.
Anyone can be in the school board, I get it. Then why does it suck so bad? You do what you do repeatedly too, you blame those who aren't in power. I can't speak to all the factors that make the system suck, but we know it does. Maybe it is not political parties, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some other factor in play that helps pick nominees and gives them public support during elections.
The deficit exists because of our banking system and government's marketing around deficits. Yes, the public should be smarter and vote out people but the country has been taught through government schools, ha ha, that deficits don't matter and that government programs are GREAT.
I agree with description about general apathy and the reasons. However, still, does the system, the process, allow normal people to understand what each candidate will do in detail that will make a school better? If a school board candidate has a "plan", how can it be evaluated by a normal voter and linked to actual improvement? It is much easier to find schools who are doing well and send your kids there. That is the only kind of choice that is needed.
I never said there was or not. I just said I think school choice is the key. I think so because consumer choice leads to better quality and lower cost for any service where that dynamic is allowed to exist.
What you are describing is the problem with the system and public choice. There is a concentrated harm to public schools and unions but diluted for the population. People without children won't care. Parents with adult children won't care. People who will care are only parents during the window of their children being in school. If they feel their children are doing well, they won't care either. Or politicians who value freedom and choice. Not many of those.
Monday morning is going to be a big day at the Supreme Court if I am reading the tea leaves properly.
A year ago I attended a federal judiciary meeting and heard the dean of Cal's law school say that Roberts is no moderate on several issues-----abortion and affirmative action being two in particular. He said Roberts is waiting for the right case. The one this week was not it because if he adopted the stance he did in the Texas case in 2016 he would be the deciding vote and would look like he cared not for stare decisis.
There are several ways he can gut CaseyRoe without just saying the guys screwed up in 1973. I'm betting he picks one----and that he lets Thomas write it if he doesn't do it himself.
A year ago I attended a federal judiciary meeting and heard the dean of Cal's law school say that Roberts is no moderate on several issues-----abortion and affirmative action being two in particular. He said Roberts is waiting for the right case. The one this week was not it because if he adopted the stance he did in the Texas case in 2016 he would be the deciding vote and would look like he cared not for stare decisis.
There are several ways he can gut CaseyRoe without just saying the guys screwed up in 1973. I'm betting he picks one----and that he lets Thomas write it if he doesn't do it himself.
I've posted this before. Just watch it. Lots of foul language, but he is pretty much right.
Because our priorities are ****. Our voters are dumb and disengaged but also don't care not to be dumb, which is even worse.
No, I blame those who are in power, and that is those who choose or have the power to choose the political leadership. At the school board level, there is no friggin' excuse. You don't even have to get through a primary.
You sound like the systemic racism dolts. They can't tell you why the system is racist. They just know it is because the outcomes don't come out as desired, so it must be racist. You're essentially making the same argument. You don't know why public education sucks. You just know that it does, so it must some rigging of the game. There is another possibility. The bad people are motivated and care, and the good people aren't and don't. There is no "nominee." These are nonpartisan races.
I'm no fan of our banking system, but they don't force Congress to spend money they don't have. That is politics. The public wants more service from the government than it is willing to pay for, and it is nothing more than that.
Let's start with just asking what a school board is and who's on it. I'd consider it progress if we'd do that. As for plans, let's start by asking. 99 percent of us don't do that.
And this is the problem. Look out for number 1 and screw everybody else. Also, "doing well" doesn't mean not indoctrinating.
You raised the school choice issue as evidence of people caring. What I'm telling you is that it's very weak evidence.
I understand that, but it isn't a problem with the system. It's with the people involved.
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