OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Is that tongue and cheek?
Shooting
- Thread starter ProdigalHorn
- Start date
I'll take all the respect I can get. I just feel that the forum our dear leaders have is a loud megaphone that can make an impact on our culture. Regardless of whether they are throwing raw meat to a rabid audience or not, it is them (or they?) who we look to as statesmen (persons?) to lead us in the proper manner. To sit there and call a riot a rebellion as Maxine Waters did after the LA riot is the government sanctioning lawlessness. It has given them license to do it again knowing they will receive political cover. Somebody has to say enough to all of this. Will it be the audience?
In the movie Gandhi, Jinna made a speech demanding home rule and received an enthusiastic response from the crowd. Gandhi followed and said what we say here means nothing to the people of India who toil in the fields. It was a sober comment about reality and not what the activist audience necessarily wanted to hear but he made an impression. Somebody has to be that guy and ask their own to stand-down and allow some rational minds to work these things out.
Agreed. We shouldn't arm every teacher and it should be voluntary. There would be strict training requirements and I would compensate these teachers for their time. At least start with teachers that are former military or law enforcement and go from there. It would just be another safeguard to supplement armed security guards which should be the primary defensive safeguard.
I'm surprised to see anyone bringing up cost as a reason not to do this. Security of the school is more important than any other function of the school. The real question is whether armed security guards would make the school more secure or not. I could not take anyone serious who would argue that armed security guards would not make schools safer against an armed assailant. We put armed security guards at nearly every public building but not at our schools. If armed security is ineffective then why are we wasting so much money on it?
My comments were an attempt to rationally discuss the list of things that could be done and the implications of doing it. My next two sentences were, "Maybe that's the investment we must now make in our children. It would have to be a federally funded program in my opinion." My children go to a private Christian school here in Austin and there is always at least one cop walking around fully armed. But this school has the money. My comment was in the context that there are so many schools and some are very large so it would take more than one person to truly deter a suicidal type maniac. I was only talking about it. I'm not saying it's not worth it. But it would be a whole new branch of security for our entire country to train up and maintain from now on. I was just trying to visualize the scope of the matter.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
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That's a fair position. I wasn't necessarily directing my comments at you but I keep hearing many on the left talk about why armed security at schools would not be effective and cost prohibitive. In reality, they just don't want to talk about any solutions other than gun control.
Is that tongue and cheek?
It was meant that way, but an actual singing signing would actually be pretty cool. Lol
Tragic. Hasn’t enough happened to these poor children. They shouldnt be punished because their irresponsible parents forced them to go to Oklahoma.
That seems to be the case sometimes. I do hear comments though about Reagan cutting (though it was Congress) funding for mental health care. I haven't researched that one in a while. It's going to take a major effort on several fronts to make a dent in the problem. It would help if the FBI would respond.
But that's what Maxine Waters's constituents want to hear. Suppose she had called for the rioters to stop acting like thugs and for a serious discussion of the issues. A bunch of white people in the LA suburbs might have respected her more for it, but Jesse Jackson would have shunned her. She also would have gotten tossed in the next primary election, and she would have been replaced by another corrupt, professional complainer like her.
Yes, we should be able to look to our leaders for leadership. However, if we punish leadership and reward ****-flinging, we'll get more ****-flinging and less leadership. That's on us.
But inevitably, some (in fact many) of the activists will start working against you, and somebody who's a bigger ****-flinger will exploit the situation. The key is that the people toiling in the fields need to step in and essentially become activists. Unfortunately that almost never happens.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Some of our ancestors were dropped off here by Andrew Jackson...
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
My Reagan knowledge is informed by many sources. I quoted H.I. McDonough in a presentation last week referencing "that sumbitch Reagan in the White House".
Hey, I'm with you pal. My mother was born in Lawton so it's in the blood pool over here.
Yes, I've noticed that too on my end. I grew up on the border and it is true the gun racks were ubiquitous. It's also true we didn't have these mass shootings. I'm not sure if that means something other than there is something causing people to want to kill innocent kids. There is a change in the water or something. The guns have always been there. But yeah, some of these guys I steered clear of back in the day. I wasn't worried about being shot; just being pushed around.
I was wondering when this latest shooting would make this board.
Well done, @ProdigalHorn ... with a note about the subject line. Unfortunately this event in Parkland won’t be the last. Therefore, it may have been better to have identified the location. Sadly.
What seems more prevalent in this response is the “do somethings” immediate push to declare what is in the heart of one who disagrees with legislative restrictions on firearms. It’s a REAL challenge to have an honest conversation about what these events reveal about us as a 21st century American society, the hows, the whys ... and the appropriate policy/legislative response ... when there’s the presumption “since you don’t advocate banning AR-15s, you don’t care about kids’ lives.” or some reasonable facsimile therein.
Pretty well terminates any ability to receive any other input ... let alone allow for an actual exchange.
So ... what to do?
This is not unlike the illegal alien problem we are having. First we have to stop digging.
Arm staff ASAP. To me, it’s a crime that it’s been illegal for adults to campus carry. I wouldn’t mandate carriage for teachers, though I certainly would give that strong consideration for authority in administration (principals/etc). Also do not prosecute adults with CHLs from carrying on campus for whatever other purpose they may be present. I find it problematic for responsible adults being restricted on their 2A rights anywhere. I mean, it’s either “ok” to carry on the back forty or it’s not. The place doesn’t matter, only the people. We’re the ones making the rules anyway.
Stop drugging our children. Almost without exception, these mass shootings have been executed by people who are taking prescribed mind-altering drugs.
On an individual level, prayer and Bible Study in school is permitted, but is usually restrcted in some form or fashion. We need to restore equality in faith. We bend over backwards to facilitate the exercise of Middle East religion, but label a Christian youth as a problem for simply seeking to lead a Bible Study on campus.
From there, recognize the family unit has been demolished. This has been addressed, but HOW to “attack” the demolition is problematic from a government-action standpoint. That’s not proper, even if it COULD be effective. People have to start taking responsibility for their choices/actions. Period. Stop demonstrating the participation trophy mindset ... the entitlement mindset.
Kids need restrictions. They also need the love of a father and of a mother. That’s not “be my friend” fuzzy warm feeling ... love ... as in discipline. Strong discipline applied ... and demonstrated.
There’s no one answer to this issue ... in fact ... there’s only going to be more of this as the days pass. For it is written
“But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.” 2 Timothy 3
My prayer is that I avoid this very entrapment. I can only do this if I surrender to Christ. Daily ... sometimes more than daily.
This is a matter of the heart, y’all. Not of an object. No man can know the heart of another, but the fruit of that heart can be seen/heard/felt.
Well done, @ProdigalHorn ... with a note about the subject line. Unfortunately this event in Parkland won’t be the last. Therefore, it may have been better to have identified the location. Sadly.
What seems more prevalent in this response is the “do somethings” immediate push to declare what is in the heart of one who disagrees with legislative restrictions on firearms. It’s a REAL challenge to have an honest conversation about what these events reveal about us as a 21st century American society, the hows, the whys ... and the appropriate policy/legislative response ... when there’s the presumption “since you don’t advocate banning AR-15s, you don’t care about kids’ lives.” or some reasonable facsimile therein.
Pretty well terminates any ability to receive any other input ... let alone allow for an actual exchange.
So ... what to do?
This is not unlike the illegal alien problem we are having. First we have to stop digging.
Arm staff ASAP. To me, it’s a crime that it’s been illegal for adults to campus carry. I wouldn’t mandate carriage for teachers, though I certainly would give that strong consideration for authority in administration (principals/etc). Also do not prosecute adults with CHLs from carrying on campus for whatever other purpose they may be present. I find it problematic for responsible adults being restricted on their 2A rights anywhere. I mean, it’s either “ok” to carry on the back forty or it’s not. The place doesn’t matter, only the people. We’re the ones making the rules anyway.
Stop drugging our children. Almost without exception, these mass shootings have been executed by people who are taking prescribed mind-altering drugs.
On an individual level, prayer and Bible Study in school is permitted, but is usually restrcted in some form or fashion. We need to restore equality in faith. We bend over backwards to facilitate the exercise of Middle East religion, but label a Christian youth as a problem for simply seeking to lead a Bible Study on campus.
From there, recognize the family unit has been demolished. This has been addressed, but HOW to “attack” the demolition is problematic from a government-action standpoint. That’s not proper, even if it COULD be effective. People have to start taking responsibility for their choices/actions. Period. Stop demonstrating the participation trophy mindset ... the entitlement mindset.
Kids need restrictions. They also need the love of a father and of a mother. That’s not “be my friend” fuzzy warm feeling ... love ... as in discipline. Strong discipline applied ... and demonstrated.
There’s no one answer to this issue ... in fact ... there’s only going to be more of this as the days pass. For it is written
“But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.” 2 Timothy 3
My prayer is that I avoid this very entrapment. I can only do this if I surrender to Christ. Daily ... sometimes more than daily.
This is a matter of the heart, y’all. Not of an object. No man can know the heart of another, but the fruit of that heart can be seen/heard/felt.
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A couple/few of my fav articles on this topic as motivated by the recent tragedy in Parkland.
https://www.dancalabrese27.com/2018...-think-i-dont-care-about-kids-being-murdered/
https://mystudentapt.com/2015/10/06/theres-a-way-to-stop-mass-shootings-and-you-wont-like-it/
http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/06/6-reasons-right-wing-friend-isnt-coming-side-gun-control/
https://www.dancalabrese27.com/2018...-think-i-dont-care-about-kids-being-murdered/
https://mystudentapt.com/2015/10/06/theres-a-way-to-stop-mass-shootings-and-you-wont-like-it/
http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/06/6-reasons-right-wing-friend-isnt-coming-side-gun-control/
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
My wife's a teacher and thinks it's laughable to think it smart to have MORE firearms in schools.
Hey, thoughts and prayers.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
When you keep making mocking comments, it makes it very difficult for some of us to remain polite when you tee up a comment like this and basically beg to be slammed. So I'm just going to say that if all you have to add is that your (presumably) liberal wife doesn't approve of trained professionals carrying guns on campus, you really don't have much at all to add to this discussion and would be better served thinking up more ways to cheat at sports.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
It is perspective that you don't have. She's on a college campus 5 days per week and in a prison 2 afternoons per week. She feels safer at the prison except that she refuses to go to the bathroom there. I use the term "laughable" because we joke about it. Like, "can you imagine...." There is a school near us that has no municipal police and they have signage indicating that staff could be holding. We discussed that amongst ourselves and see that as a reasonable alternative due to the fact that there is no police force.
There were two armed security guards in Florida. That didn't do much good.
It's more laughable that gun control will make this issue go away either. My brother was a career criminal in his youth. He never had a problem getting a weapon for his next job. I have an Israeli friend that thinks it's stupid that we haven't done what they did to stop these shootings (more firepower and checkpoints).
There's not much of anything that people can't get if they want...
Does she also think that courthouses and most Federal government buildings would be better off without their armed security guards? I wonder if Obama held onto his Secret service detail after he left the White House given all those unsafe firearms they would be carrying? Sorry, couldn't resist.
Anyways, this is another example where I would love to have school choice. If you don't want your kids going to a school with armed security guards then by all means you should not have to just because of the arbitrary school district that you belong to. I can tell you that I would choose to send my children to the school with armed security all day, any day. I suspect most parents would agree.
The only thing that stopped my brother's reign of terror was the three strikes law.
I can't imagine your mother liked it. Would be tough.
I think the debate may be somewhere between arming the teachers or adding a few more highly trained (not like the mall security I saw today; jeez... pretty weak I must say) armed security personnel.
I don't know how many entrances there are at that school. And if he pulled a fire alarm then as you saw and can imagine the chaos would still result in an unacceptable level of casualties; with the benchmark being none.
It was tough. Out of her 4 children I was the only one that didn't cause her grief. It was rough for me as well. Being raised around people who behave like zoo animals isn't easy. One of the reasons why despite my education I'm rather coarse.
Well good for you to overcome an environment that could have pulled you the wrong way. I admire you for hanging in there. Prayers for your mom. Being a parent I can relate to how it would feel and I have the blessing so far of minimal problems. It hits me even to see them unhappy or down on themselves. But that's life.
Thanks! The good thing is that my siblings have turned themselves around. My worst brother was released due to Texas prison overcrowding and has even straightened himself up for the most part. Still does stupid stuff on occasion but nothing he would go to prison for.
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