Sam Contemplating

If Sam comes back his HC won’t be Herman. I just cannot see that happening.

If my assessment is accurate — that the next HC will do more with the talent he inherits than Herman would have done — I will be very eager to see how the 21 season plays out. And very hopeful.

And if that new HC were to be Meyer, imagine how many 5th year players would consider transferring here for their last year.
 
If Sam comes back his HC won’t be Herman. I just cannot see that happening.

If my assessment is accurate — that the next HC will do more with the talent he inherits than Herman would have done — I will be very eager to see how the 21 season plays out. And very hopeful.

And if that new HC were to be Meyer, imagine how many 5th year players would consider transferring here for their last year.
I never thought of that.
Maybe Bru part IV?
 
So, you're saying he should have benched himself?
I watched him come off the field with a dislocated finger sticking off to the side.
He popped it back in himself and ran back on the field.
I would have loved for him to be more successful.
But he played the hand dealt him as best he could.
I recall that as well. Simms was voted the toughest player in the team by his peers.
 
And Major almost brought us back.
Buffs couldn't seem to stop us after Major came in.

This has gotten overblown over the years because Major came in and immediately threw a long bomb for a touchdown with 2 minutes to go until halftime. Then our offense didn't score any other touchdowns the rest of the game until it was too late (we finally got another one when down two scores with 30 seconds left).

And it's funny how everybody remembers Simms throwing 3 picks in the first half against Colorado, including a pick-6, as we fell behind by 19. And everybody forgets Applewhite throwing 3 picks in the first half against Washington in the next game, including a pick-6, as we fell behind by 19.

Can't agree with any of that about Simms. The LSU win in the Cotton bowl was a good one, and my remembrance of it was that he played well.

He played very well pretty much the whole 2002 season outside of the OU game, and I think it's pretty obvious by now our struggles against OU were a Mack problem, not a Chris problem. Applewhite got blown out in 2000. VY got blown out in 2003 and shut out in 2004.

He was great, until we needed him to be. The Rocky Calmus interception in the end zone

If you mean the Roy Williams play, it seems pretty silly to blame Chris for that. Right as he threw a pass, Roy comes vaulting right over the top of Brett Robin and hits him from behind. Not his fault. Not really Robin's fault either, just one of the best defenders in the country making a superhuman play. If I blame anyone, I blame Nathan Vasher for fair-catching a quick kick on our own 2 yard line.
 
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This has gotten overblown over the years because Major came in and immediately threw a long bomb for a touchdown with 2 minutes to go until halftime. Then our offense didn't score any other touchdowns the rest of the game until it was too late (we finally got another one when down two scores with 30 seconds left).

And it's funny how everybody remembers Simms throwing 3 picks in the first half against Colorado, including a pick-6, as we fell behind by 19. And everybody forgets Applewhite throwing 3 picks in the first half against Washington in the next game, including a pick-6, as we fell behind by 19.



He played very well pretty much the whole 2002 season outside of the OU game, and I think it's pretty obvious by now our struggles against OU were a Mack problem, not a Chris problem. Applewhite got blown out in 2000. VY got blown out in 2003 and shut out in 2004.



If you mean the Roy Williams play, it seems pretty silly to blame Chris for that. Right as he threw a pass, Roy comes vaulting right over the top of Brett Robin and hits him from behind. Not his fault. Not really Robin's fault either, just one of the best defenders in the country making a superhuman play. If I blame anyone, I blame Nathan Vasher for fair-catching a quick kick on our own 2 yard line.
 
The Colorado game ended 39-37 and had we not gotten the roughing the punter we very likely could’ve won that game with Major after Chris’s debacle.

We won the 2001 Holiday bowl with Major. 47-43.

Stop trying to be a Simms apologist. He’s a grown man now. I like his personality. Just don’t like how he did less with more (ala Herman) rather than more with less (ala Major).
 
A lot of people forget that Applewhite had blown both knees out after the 2000 season, and the 2001 season was his last year, while Simms had two left (2001 and 2002). So it was neither a hard nor a different decision from what most coaches would have done - start Simms in the 2001 season. And he played well except for the B12 game.

People forgetting this always baffles me. I get not remembering the details of the Colorado game. I had forgotten them myself for years until I looked it back up some time ago. But nearly everyone forgetting Major's multiple serious injuries is bizarre - especially considering people were forgetting about it while he was still recovering.

Remember in 1999 Chris was the backup all year until he started the A&M game (also the Bonfire Game) after Major was sick with food poisoning thanks to Dinesh Patel. The game was a defensive struggle and Chris didn't play great, but we were up 10 at halftime. At that point Major must have said he was feeling well enough to play so we swapped QBs, and then put 0 points on the board (only one drive even gained double-digit yards, and it ended in an Applewhite fumble) and lost by 4. IMO, although it's impossible to know for sure, Major just still shouldn't have been playing. Not Major's fault obviously, but ironic that arguably the first mistake Mack Brown made in the Major/Chris situation was to pull Chris and put Major in.

Then at the end of the 1999 season came the Cotton Bowl, where Major blew out his knee really badly in the first of many examples of Greg Davis being clueless of how to beat the blitz. In summer practices it was pretty obvious that Major was not 100%, so Chris got the start in the first game. He promptly threw a pick 6 and we were down 10-0 to ULaLa after the first quarter so Major came in and we won 52-10. I think at this point we all thought Major was fine, but he wasn't, Lafayette just sucked. Mack had to choose between a healthy but still inexperienced Chris, and a less-than-full-strength Major, and both struggled at times. We lost to Stanford, who finished the year 4-7, even though we had beaten their 1999 team that made the Rose Bowl by 52, and they both played poorly. We'd switch back and forth whenever one guy looked bad and our fanbase was tired of it and Mack was getting blasted whatever he did.

Then finally Major started looking like his old self again and look over the full-time starting role. He looked great and our offense was clicking. It lasted 4 games and then he blew out his knee again in the 3rd quarter against Tech and was done for the year. Simms played well for most of the rest of the year, including a 43-17 annihilation of A&M, until throwing 4 picks in the Holiday Bowl against Oregon. It got even worse when Hodges Mitchell went out for the game with injury. In spite of that (and with some help from defensive and special teams scores) he brought us down the field in the final minute with a chance to win, and threw 3 consecutive accurate passes, all which would have been TDs, but which were all 3 dropped by our receivers.

Come to the start of the 2001 season, and once again Major still doesn't healthy in the summer. So once again Mack Brown has to choose between healthy Chris and hobbled Major. Given how the previous year's QB shuffling hadn't worked well on the field nor off the field, he resolves that this time he will pick one guy and stick with him. Presumably because this time it's no longer a "healthy but inexperienced" Chris, or maybe Major just simply wasn't ready yet at the start of the year, he goes with Simms as the starter and sticks with him.
 
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People forgetting this always baffles me. I get not remembering the details of the Colorado game. I had forgotten them myself for years until I looked it back up some time ago. But nearly everyone forgetting Major's multiple serious injuries is bizarre - especially considering people were forgetting about it while he was still recovering.

Remember in 1999 Chris was the backup all year until he started the A&M game (also the Bonfire Game) after Major was sick with food poisoning thanks to Dinesh Patel. The game was a defensive struggle and Chris didn't play great, but we were up 10 at halftime. At that point Major must have said he was feeling well enough to play so we swapped QBs, and then put 0 points on the board (only one drive even gained double-digit yards, and it ended in an Applewhite fumble) and lost by 4. IMO, although it's impossible to know for sure, Major just still shouldn't have been playing. Not Major's fault obviously, but ironic that arguably the first mistake Mack Brown made in the Major/Chris situation was to pull Chris and put Major in.

Then at the end of the 1999 season came the Cotton Bowl, where Major blew out his knee really badly in the first of many examples of Greg Davis being clueless of how to beat the blitz. In summer practices it was pretty obvious that Major was not 100%, so Chris got the start in the first game. He promptly threw a pick 6 and we were down 10-0 to ULaLa after the first quarter so Major came in and we won 52-10. I think at this point we all thought Major was fine, but he wasn't, Lafayette just sucked. Mack had to choose between a healthy but still inexperienced Chris, and a less-than-full-strength Major, and both struggled at times. We lost to Stanford, who finished the year 4-7, even though we had beaten their 1999 team that made the Rose Bowl by 52, and they both played poorly. We'd switch back and forth whenever one guy looked bad and our fanbase was tired of it and Mack was getting blasted whatever he did.

Then finally Major started looking like his old self again and look over the full-time starting role. He looked great and our offense was clicking. It lasted 4 games and then he blew out his knee again in the 3rd quarter against Tech and was done for the year. Simms played well for most of the rest of the year, including a 43-17 annihilation of A&M, until throwing 4 picks in the Holiday Bowl against Oregon. In spite of that, he brought us down the field in the final minute with a chance to win, and threw 3 consecutive accurate passes into the endzone which were all 3 dropped by our receivers.

Come to the start of the 2001 season, and once again Major still doesn't healthy in the summer. So once again Mack Brown has to choose between healthy Chris and hobbled Major. Given how the previous year's QB shuffling hadn't worked well on the field nor off the field, he resolves that this time he will pick one guy and stick with him. Presumably because this time it's no longer a "healthy but inexperienced" Chris, or maybe Major just simply wasn't ready yet at the start of the year, he goes with Simms as the starter and sticks with him.
This isn’t a Chris vs Major thread. It isn’t even a Chris sucks thread but the discussion moved in that direction. Get over it.
 
Chris Simms gets bad rap for basically three games, OU in 2001 and 2002 and the Big XII championship in 2001. He was 26-6 as a starter. And yes people very conveniently forget how injured Major was coming in to 2001.

The one game that Chris just absolutely came apart in was that Big XII title game and unfortunately that defines his legacy because if he doesn't throw those picks (the first one coming with Texas up 7-0 and driving for a second score and which led to Cedrick Benson who was dominant through the first series and a half getting injured by a Texas OL and lost for game) he wins that game and leads Texas to the NC game against Miami. That one game and OU in 2001 when Mack's play it safe, don't play Benson, wait for OU to make a mistake strategy just never paid off. Y'all know I am big Mack Brown fan but even his most ardent fans would concede his strategy in 2001 against OU playing not to lose was his biggest coaching mistake in his time at Texas.
 
If we rewind it, I was saying that Sam needs to leave UT in a way he deserves. Full DKR, hopefully the woke virus that hit the players is cured with the transfer portal, and another year under the new offense that was hard to implement due to Zoom meetings comes together.

And that is 2021. This whole year was crazy.
 
The bottom line is Texas underachieved while Simms was there. How culpable he was in that, who knows? Texas got its *** handed to it by OU 5 years in a row with 2 of the 60+ to something shellackings. Should have beaten CU in 2001 after kicking their *** during the season. Who cares whose fault it was?

The 2003 loss to Nutt and Arkie. That still stings. Followed up a few weeks later by the second OU shellacking.

About the only great thing, and any realistic Texas fan would agree, about the 2000-2004 Texas teams prior to the Michigan win in the Rose Bowl was regularly beating the hell out of A&M. Those of us who lived through the 80s and 90s embarrassments against them appreciated that. Seriously, what really memorable wins during that period happened? 10+ wins blah blah blah. No conference titles, no BCS bowls until that Rose Bowl. Disappointment when Texas was poised for greatness.

So, again, who gives a crap whether it was Simms or Applewhite? The rest of the Texas players and coaches were all a part of the disappointments.

Oh...the OSU comebacks were fun wins to watch. But, again, if not for severely underperforming in the first half of those games, Texas shouldn't have had to have miracle comebacks against them. We owned Nebraska too. I acknowledge that. Besides those, 2000-2004 will stand out for realistic Texas fans as years of what could have and should have been.


Now, will Sam be back next year. Who knows? Doubt it if Herman is the coach. Why would he come back for that continued **** show?
 
So, you're saying he should have benched himself?
I watched him come off the field with a dislocated finger sticking off to the side.
He popped it back in himself and ran back on the field.
I would have loved for him to be more successful.
But he played the hand dealt him as best he could.

I recall that as well. Simms was voted the toughest player in the team by his peers.

Put me in the was not impressed with Simms camp and...though I do feel like his failings are somewhat exaggerated (and the vitriol against him was absurd)....he did fall Majorly flat in a few key games. It was painfully apparent he needed to come out in the CCG and you could just sense what Applewhite would bring to the team on the field. Some of the guys on here need to be reminded it's not all ability, appearance, or stats or whatever w leaders....it is energy and the confidence you bring to the team and it just rarely seemed to click with Chris and those teams. (I viewed the Buechele vs Sam competition similarly btw)
Having said all this, these^^^^^^comments by you guys match things I've heard and I certainly dont think he was soft. My lasting impression of him (other than the failed CCG) will always be him trying to play through a ruptured spleen with Tampa in spite of coaches and having to be forced to leave the game even though injury was life threatening...something he couldn't have known at the time....but still...
 
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The bottom line is Texas underachieved while Simms was there. How culpable he was in that, who knows? Texas got its *** handed to it by OU 5 years in a row with 2 of the 60+ to something shellackings. Should have beaten CU in 2001 after kicking their *** during the season. Who cares whose fault it was?

The 2003 loss to Nutt and Arkie. That still stings. Followed up a few weeks later by the second OU shellacking.

About the only great thing, and any realistic Texas fan would agree, about the 2000-2004 Texas teams prior to the Michigan win in the Rose Bowl was regularly beating the hell out of A&M. Those of us who lived through the 80s and 90s embarrassments against them appreciated that. Seriously, what really memorable wins during that period happened? 10+ wins blah blah blah. No conference titles, no BCS bowls until that Rose Bowl. Disappointment when Texas was poised for greatness.

So, again, who gives a crap whether it was Simms or Applewhite? The rest of the Texas players and coaches were all a part of the disappointments.

Oh...the OSU comebacks were fun wins to watch. But, again, if not for severely underperforming in the first half of those games, Texas shouldn't have had to have miracle comebacks against them. We owned Nebraska too. I acknowledge that. Besides those, 2000-2004 will stand out for realistic Texas fans as years of what could have and should have been.


Now, will Sam be back next year. Who knows? Doubt it if Herman is the coach. Why would he come back for that continued **** show?
I hear you, we really don’t know Sams relationship with TH. I do feel TH hung Sam out to dry, but I could be wrong.
 
I hear you, we really don’t know Sams relationship with TH. I do feel TH hung Sam out to dry, but I could be wrong.
Unless, as someone alluded to previously, Sam just wants to be the Texas QB again next year just because that is so fun, in spite of the fact it is mostly an underachieving and painful brand of football to watch, why would he subject himself to the Herman methods etc again, even if he loves the guy?
 
The Colorado game ended 39-37 and had we not gotten the roughing the punter we very likely could’ve won that game with Major after Chris’s debacle.

We won the 2001 Holiday bowl with Major. 47-43.

Stop trying to be a Simms apologist. He’s a grown man now. I like his personality. Just don’t like how he did less with more (ala Herman) rather than more with less (ala Major).
So it's ok that Major threw interceptions against Washington because he got the chance to come back in that game? What if Simms had that opportunity? Guess we'll never know...
 
So it's ok that Major threw interceptions against Washington because he got the chance to come back in that game? What if Simms had that opportunity? Guess we'll never know...
Not about Simms vs Applewhite. It’s about whether Simms deserves to be the poster boy for fan abuse. He doesn’t.
 
This has gotten overblown over the years because Major came in and immediately threw a long bomb for a touchdown with 2 minutes to go until halftime. Then our offense didn't score any other touchdowns the rest of the game until it was too late (we finally got another one when down two scores with 30 seconds left).

And it's funny how everybody remembers Simms throwing 3 picks in the first half against Colorado, including a pick-6, as we fell behind by 19. And everybody forgets Applewhite throwing 3 picks in the first half against Washington
This has gotten overblown over the years because Major came in and immediately threw a long bomb for a touchdown with 2 minutes to go until halftime. Then our offense didn't score any other touchdowns the rest of the game until it was too late (we finally got another one when down two scores with 30 seconds left).

And it's funny how everybody remembers Simms throwing 3 picks in the first half against Colorado, including a pick-6, as we fell behind by 19. And everybody forgets Applewhite throwing 3 picks in the first half against Washington in the next game, including a pick-6, as we fell behind t.
The first pick was entirely on him. The second was a fluke play. The third was on Scaife. 100%.
 
None of that makes any sense. Sims was a problem but he could not be pulled?

Simms was a good UT quarterback, as was Applewhite. They had different skills and abilities, good games and terrible games.

Ultimately neither one won a conference championship or went to a top tier bowl, and it wasn't either one of their faults - that was on Brown. Unless Brown had not just the best QB in football, but top 3 players in all of football (2005 with Vince, 2009 with Colt), he was unable to win any titles. Even in 2008 he was unable to win.

Brown needed the best QB in football to even be in the running for a conference tittle - neither Simms nor Applewhite were ever remotely close to being that. So regardless of their efforts, they had no chance.
 
While Simms was indeed talented, as debated at the time, he lacked the intangible, the “it” factor. Applewhite had it. Simms didn’t.

If you could put Major's knack for making plays into Simm's athletic QB body you just might have the perfect QB......Oh wait, that was VY!
 
Lot of comparisons of who made more mistakes, Simms or Applewhite.

Applewhite was a tall, skinny kid playing well over his ability on paper. Simms was the number one football player coming out of high school, who played below his ability at the times we needed him most.

I expected a lot more out of Simms than I ever did Applewhite.

- Mike
 
None of that makes any sense. Sims was a problem but he could not be pulled?

Simms was a good UT quarterback, as was Applewhite. They had different skills and abilities, good games and terrible games.

Ultimately neither one won a conference championship or went to a top tier bowl, and it wasn't either one of their faults - that was on Brown. Unless Brown had not just the best QB in football, but top 3 players in all of football (2005 with Vince, 2009 with Colt), he was unable to win any titles. Even in 2008 he was unable to win.

Brown needed the best QB in football to even be in the running for a conference tittle - neither Simms nor Applewhite were ever remotely close to being that. So regardless of their efforts, they had no chance.
None of what I said had anything to do with National Championship chances or conference titles. I spoke simply that Simms was not the poster boy for fan abuse.
 
The Colorado game ended 39-37 and had we not gotten the roughing the punter we very likely could’ve won that game with Major after Chris’s debacle.

We won the 2001 Holiday bowl with Major. 47-43.

Stop trying to be a Simms apologist. He’s a grown man now. I like his personality. Just don’t like how he did less with more (ala Herman) rather than more with less (ala Major).

With Major, we scored 27 points, Chris got us 10 and then the wheels came off. IIRC, he threw a pick 6 that resulted not only in a TD for the buffs, but also caused the loss of our top running back and an offensive lineman who collided with each other while trying to make the tackle. Add in that roughing the punter, the come-back ended. Not all of it was Chris's fault, but his poor performance early on sure as hell didn't help.
 
Put me in the was not impressed with Simms camp and...though I do feel like his failings are somewhat exaggerated (and the vitriol against him was absurd)....he did fall Majorly flat in a few key games. It was painfully apparent he needed to come out in the CCG and you could just sense what Applewhite would bring to the team on the field. Some of the guys on here need to be reminded it's not all ability, appearance, or stats or whatever w leaders....it is energy and the confidence you bring to the team and it just rarely seemed to click with Chris and those teams. (I viewed the Buechele vs Sam competition similarly btw)
Having said all this, these^^^^^^comments by you guys match things I've heard and I certainly dont think he was soft. My lasting impression of him (other than the failed CCG) will always be him trying to play through a ruptured spleen with Tampa in spite of coaches and having to be forced to leave the game even though injury was life threatening...something he couldn't have known at the time....but still...

Yes indeed. Simms earned criticism during his time here. But I will never question his toughness. The dude "powered through" what could have been a fatal injury in TB.
 
Imagine how much it must have taken for Mack to pull him. Chew on that. Mack knew Chris was the problem.[/Q
The Colorado game ended 39-37 and had we not gotten the roughing the punter we very likely could’ve won that game with Major after Chris’s debacle.

We won the 2001 Holiday bowl with Major. 47-43.

Stop trying to be a Simms apologist. He’s a grown man now. I like his personality. Just don’t like how he did less with more (ala Herman) rather than more with less (ala Major).

Major definetely did more with female student trainers than Simms did... :e-face-shades:
 

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