Riots in Minneapolis

[AustinHorn24]

The only way that happens is if his appeal is brought in federal court. No Minnesota state court judge is going to vacate his conviction. Keep in mind that the judge in this case remarked that Maxine Waters may have given Chauvin something to work with on appeal. Well, he's going to get a chance to render a judgment notwithstanding the verdict. Think he's going to do that? Hell-friggin-no. He doesn't want his house burned down.

If public politicians making statements on cases was a valid reason for successful appeal of a conviction then I figure there's several hundred people convicted over the years who would have had their convictions vacated.

Is there a real case of a celebrity or public figure whose conviction was overturned due to what a politician said about the case? I'm not aware of any.

 

[Monahorns]

Prosecutors should have made a deal with Chauvin. If he agreed to let 3 guards hold him face down with a knee in his back for 9 minutes and still not have any trouble breathing, then charges get dropped.

I watched a video of a person do this as an experiment. He talked the whole time easily with the full weight of a person and the knee on the neck for 9.5 minutes. He commented that the position was uncomfortable, but he never had trouble breathing.

Chauvin should have/could have been more aware and got off of him after cuffing him. So I agree manslaughter would have been more appropriate. But there were people cursing Chauvin out during the whole time too. So maybe he was worried about his own life?

But oh well. The Left got their scapegoat. The question to me is how many more scapegoats will it take?

 

[Monahorns]

After watching the video of Chauvin, it is clear what he and the other police should have done.

They should have used whatever force it took to get him in the police car in the first place. Force him in the car and lock him in the back seat and take him to the police station. There own lack of strength or willingness to make him comply quickly led to Floyd's death and the virtual end of their lives too.

 

[Mr. Deez]

If public politicians making statements on cases was a valid reason for successful appeal of a conviction then I figure there's several hundred people convicted over the years who would have had their convictions vacated.

Is there a real case of a celebrity or public figure whose conviction was overturned due to what a politician said about the case? I'm not aware of any.

I think the judge mentioned Waters as an anecdote of what was going on, not as a basis all by itself. It isn't about the politicians talking. They have a constitutional right to speak and even to say moronic things like Waters has for 30 years. It's about the trial court failing to take precautions to protect the process from prejudicial influences such as sensationalism and inappropriate influence from the media and other prominent figures, which could be but doesn't have to be politicians. It's why we sequester juries. If you want an example of that leading to a conviction being tossed out, see Sheppard v. Maxwell, 384 U.S. 333 (1966). To be clear, it's not perfectly analogous from a factual standpoint and I'm not saying the court will definitely grant habeas corpus relief based on it, but by not sequestering the jury, I think judge opened himself up to a serious challenge on the issue.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

BOOM.

This is amazing. This is the correct answer. I dont care about anything else at this point. You can't ***** about the police if you disobey orders and fightv with them. At that point you've forfeited your own agency and put it in the hands of someone else. You deserve what you get.

 

[OUBubba]

Barry, you raise some fair points here. I think some liberals think that simply second-guessing what a police officer does is where they lose conservatives. It's not. Most fair-minded people (even on the Right) can look at some of these incidents and either side against the officer or at least accept that reasonable people could side against the officer. I think that's true of Castille, Garner, and some others. I think people could look at the Floyd incident and find that Derek Chauvin was out of line. I think murder is a tremendous stretch, but manslaughter certainly is not. Either way, it's not crazy to think Chauvin is a villain in this, even if you're on the Right.

You lose the Right on two grounds. First, you all put far too little focus on the actions of the suspect being pursued, and you simply can't do that and claim to be a fair arbiter of these incidents. Most commentators I've heard on TV discussing this case acted as though Chauvin just randomly went after Floyd to **** him up. The fact that Floyd committed a crime is important. The fact that Floyd resisted arrest is massively important, and commentators of the left minimize this stuff (resisting arrest, running from the police, etc.), and no sane person doesn't think that stuff is huge. It's going to massively impact how an officer pursues a suspect. It has to, and you can't have a civil society in which it doesn't. And it's not just on this case. It's the pattern that liberal commentators routinely follow on these stories.

I understand why you all do it. You aren't going to amp people up and motivate them over a counterfeiter doped up on fentanyl who gets killed resisting arrest, because superficially it just doesn't seem like that big of an injustice. To amp people up, you need a guy like Floyed to be framed as basically a good guy and therefore a martyr of sorts. Well, people see through crap like that, and frankly, it diminishes your credibility with some on the Right. George Floyd doesn't have to be a good guy to make Derek Chauvin look bad.

Second, you all make far too many and too big of leaps and usually do so without evidence or at least against the great weight of the evidence and usually devoid of logic. Specifically, it's when you take the leap that not only is Derek Chauvin bad, but he's indicative of a broader and deeper evil not only in police but in American and Western society in general. Chauvin's bad, but police in general is bad. I'm bad. You're bad. Whitey is bad. Capitalism is bad. America is bad. Well, people of the Right are going to go on defense with that kind of ****, because it's ultimately an attack on their country and on them personally. It's stupid comments like Chris Cuomo saying that we don't get reform (whatever that means) beause not enought white people are getting killed (ignoring the fact that police kill white peole more often). That kind of crap is miles away from, "Derek Chauvin is a bad guy." You can think Derek Chauvin is a manslaughterer or even murderer and still think that kind of **** is wrong and destructive. And yet those kinds of comments are routinely made by liberals and almost never challenged or walked back. Well, if you're a patriotic American, that kind of **** is gonna turn you off.

We actually agree to some extent. Like the guy accidentally shot instead of tazed. Don't resist arrest and you don't create that possibility. Like the idiot kid running with a gun and then turning around quickly, albeit with hands up. Snap decisions have to be made and lead is real. But, even after resisting arrest, he's in cuffs and subdued. He said "I can't breathe" 20+ times. He said "I'm going to die". He seemed pretty on board with the facts of the situation. There exists a duty to protect at that point on the part of the police. He did not do that and he will pay for that failure.

 

[OUBubba]

I watched a video of a person do this as an experiment. He talked the whole time easily with the full weight of a person and the knee on the neck for 9.5 minutes. He commented that the position was uncomfortable, but he never had trouble breathing.

Chauvin should have/could have been more aware and got off of him after cuffing him. So I agree manslaughter would have been more appropriate. But there were people cursing Chauvin out during the whole time too. So maybe he was worried about his own life?

But oh well. The Left got their scapegoat. The question to me is how many more scapegoats will it take?

That's the "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit" scenario. You can't recreate the scenario with weight, various health issues, etc. I think the 3rd degree charge fit this case.

 

[mb227]

As for his safety, he will be protected by the guards at the prison.

The general public likely will not be able to find where he is being housed once sentencing has taken place. I expect a transfer to another agency and housing that is consistent with how the BOP handles WITSEC cases...and when you call to inquire about a WITSEC case in a manner OTHER than how they are officially identified, you very quickly get a return call from an office in DC.

We had a State client housed pursuant to WITSEC placement...none of the online sources would have revealed his location and TDCJ just showed him as being on bench warrant. Even at the facility where he was housed, he was sending and receiving mail with a code that did NOT involve the use of his name. The mail was sent to an address different from regular mail to the facility because only a few people were authorized to handle it.

 

[mb227]

Prosecutors should have made a deal with Chauvin. If he agreed to let 3 guards hold him face down with a knee in his back for 9 minutes and still not have any trouble breathing, then charges get dropped.

Tell the defense "experts" to do the same thing.

Hell you guys can do the same thing at home. Get 3 buddies to hold you down and have one put a knee on your back for 9 minutes while you are restrained face down the entire time. Report back to us and tell us what it feels like, if you're still conscious afterwards.

Chauvin's attorney could have done his entire closing statement laying on the floor with Chauvin's knee on him the same as it had been for the #FelonFloyd and gotten up a few hours later at the conclusion of closing and been perfectly fine.

 

[Horn6721]

Well this is shockerAlmost as shocking as the awarding 27 Million BEFORE the trial
Justice Department opens probe of Minneapolis police after Chauvin conviction - CBS News

 

[mb227]

News: crowds gather to celebrate and celebrate the life of George Floyd. A lifelong violent felon and drug abuser. Yeah. Let’s celebrate. As if he was that 85 year old Dad who worked hard for 60 years to support his kids, stayed married to his wife, obeyed the law, etc. Yay George Floyd!

He SHOULD be applauded...he IS almost eleven months drug-free...first time he has done that in his adult life.

 

[mb227]

I don't know criminal law, but it seems like the three charges (two for murder and one man slaughter) are overlapping and redundant to me. It seems like the jury could have picked A, B, or C, but were so scared, they went for "D", all of the above. It will be interesting to see how the judge parses out the sentence.

I hope the decision is thrown out by a higher court because of the obvious political influence on the jury.

It wouldn't have flown here in Texas...where a lesser-included is somehow included in the findings of guilt, they WILL get kicked on appeal. You cannot commit the same offense on one victim and have three counts for which you are convicted. A death is not the same as a sex offense where there are, in fact, multiple orifices which are separate and distinct offenses as well as multiple manners of penetration.

Instructions would have been given that might include all of the options so that the lesser-included conduct is considered, which is why, in Texas, you will see some cases where they roll the dice and, for example, just go for murder as opposed to including lesser offenses that range down to murder-sudden passion, manslaughter or even criminally-negligent homicide.

 

[Mr. Deez]

BOOM.

This is amazing. This is the correct answer. I dont care about anything else at this point. You can't ***** about the police if you disobey orders and fightv with them. At that point you've forfeited your own agency and put it in the hands of someone else. You deserve what you get.

Floyd was an idiot for resisting, but resistance doesn't eliminate the cop's duties to him. Don't fight stupidity with more stupidity.

 

[Mr. Deez]

We actually agree to some extent. Like the guy accidentally shot instead of tazed. Don't resist arrest and you don't create that possibility. Like the idiot kid running with a gun and then turning around quickly, albeit with hands up. Snap decisions have to be made and lead is real. But, even after resisting arrest, he's in cuffs and subdued. He said "I can't breathe" 20+ times. He said "I'm going to die". He seemed pretty on board with the facts of the situation. There exists a duty to protect at that point on the part of the police. He did not do that and he will pay for that failure.

Those are fair points, and I think most on the Right can mostly agree. However, the left and the political media are never satisfied with that. They have to make Chauvin's arguably bad conduct an indictment of the country in general. Not good.

 

[Garmel]

I watched a video of a person do this as an experiment. He talked the whole time easily with the full weight of a person and the knee on the neck for 9.5 minutes. He commented that the position was uncomfortable, but he never had trouble breathing.

Chauvin should have/could have been more aware and got off of him after cuffing him. So I agree manslaughter would have been more appropriate. But there were people cursing Chauvin out during the whole time too. So maybe he was worried about his own life?

But oh well. The Left got their scapegoat. The question to me is how many more scapegoats will it take?

Mona, do you have a link to that video? I'd like to show it to people.

 

[Sangre Naranjada]

He SHOULD be applauded...he IS almost eleven months drug-free...first time he has done that in his adult life.

Not true. He just changed his substance of choice to formaldehyde these last 11 months and counting.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

Floyd was an idiot for resisting, but resistance doesn't eliminate the cop's duties to him. Don't fight stupidity with more stupidity.

You're missing my point. Chauvin is going to jail but Floyd is dead. Floyd could have gotten into the car. It would have ended right there. He chose to resist. He took his own life out of his hands at that point.

You may not like that but it's the truth.

Do you look both ways before crossing the street? If so why? Because you still have power over your agency despite the fact it's illegal for a car to hit a pedestrian. You don't simply trust that drivers will do the right, legal thing.

This girl yesterday in Ohio who was shot by police forfeited her agency and now she's dead. Of course attempting to stab another girl with a knife after police have arrived on the scene is a stupid thing to do, but what did she think? She probably didn't think... Either way, she made a decision that took her own safety out of her hands and put it in the hands of the police, and they had to decide whether to save the girl in pink about to be stabbed or not. Period.

 

[Monahorns]

That's the "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit" scenario. You can't recreate the scenario with weight, various health issues, etc. I think the 3rd degree charge fit this case.

You can't you are correct. But the guy did try to pair relative weight difference of the 2 people and he was cuffed and laid face down in a parking lot.

You just about gave it away Bubba, health issues. Of course he didn't have COVID and ingest deadly levels of drugs. But the guy does have heart problems.

 

[OrangeShogun]

Not true. He just changed his substance of choice to formaldehyde these last 11 months and counting.

Dude. That's harsh.

 

[mchammer]

The Klan with a tan:

LeBron James Tweets Image Of Columbus Cop, Threatens "You're Next" | ZeroHedge

 

[mchammer]

Klan with a tan:

"Get The F**k Out Of New York!": BLM Protesters Demand White Restaurant Owners Leave The City | ZeroHedge

 

[Musburger1]

The Klan with a tan:

LeBron James Tweets Image Of Columbus Cop, Threatens "You're Next" | ZeroHedge

This photo says everything you need to know. No mention that the cops action probably saved the life of the woman in pink. The whole emphasis is to make the audience think a white cop murdered a teenage black girl.

The news had hours to get this right. They had the resources to watch this clip, slow down the frames, and point out that the "victim" was about to stab the other person. Yet they didn't do this. This isn't an accident.

 

[2003TexasGrad]

This photo says everything you need to know. No mention that the cops action probably saved the life of the woman in pink. The whole emphasis is to make the audience think a white cop murdered a teenage black girl.

The news had hours to get this right. They had the resources to watch this clip, slow down the frames, and point out that the "victim" was about to stab the other person. Yet they didn't do this. This isn't an accident.

White cop saves Black girl from Black girl..... quite the predicament for the Libnuts. Braindead LeBron just can't figure it out.

 

[BALL IS LIFE]

White cop saves Black girl from Black girl..... quite the predicament for the Libnuts. Braindead LeBron just can't figure it out.

Actually, libnuts like Lebron and politicians have it figured out quite well. The more division in the country, the more money in their pockets. Plus, they have constant security to guard them.

 

[Mr. Deez]

You're missing my point. Chauvin is going to jail but Floyd is dead. Floyd could have gotten into the car. It would have ended right there. He chose to resist. He took his own life out of his hands at that point.

You may not like that but it's the truth.

Do you look both ways before crossing the street? If so why? Because you still have power over your agency despite the fact it's illegal for a car to hit a pedestrian. You don't simply trust that drivers will do the right, legal thing.

What you're missing is that two things can be true at the same time. A suspect can be an idiot for resisting, and at the same time, the cop still has a duty only to use reasonable force on you. It's not as simple as, "you deserve what you get." For example, if someone gets pulled over for DWI and punches the cop, the cop can certainly restrain him. But can he necessarily blow the guy away? No.

This girl yesterday in Ohio who was shot by police forfeited her agency and now she's dead. Of course attempting to stab another girl with a knife after police have arrived on the scene is a stupid thing to do, but what did she think? She probably didn't think... Either way, she made a decision that took her own safety out of her hands and put it in the hands of the police, and they had to decide whether to save the girl in pink about to be stabbed or not. Period.

This is a completely separate matter. Ma'Khia Bryant was trying to murder somebody. Of course the cop was right to shoot her. He saved someone's life. He should get a medal.

 

[Mr. Deez]

News: crowds gather to celebrate and celebrate the life of George Floyd. A lifelong violent felon and drug abuser. Yeah. Let’s celebrate. As if he was that 85 year old Dad who worked hard for 60 years to support his kids, stayed married to his wife, obeyed the law, etc. Yay George Floyd!

The drive to deify Floyd is a classic propaganda trick. It reminds me somewhat of what the Nazis did with Horst Wessel, who was a relatively unremarkable Brownshirt back in the late 20s. He was basically a political thug who beat people up and vandalized for the party, and like a lot of other political thugs, he was involved in some criminal activities. In fact, I think he was a pimp. Well, he got behind on his rent, and his landlord got some Communist Party thugs (basically Antifa) to rough him up, and they ended up shooting him dead.

Well, Joseph Goebbels (the Nazi propaganda minister) turned this part-time pimp and deadbeat into a hero of the movement. In fact, a song he wrote basically became the national anthem of the Third Reich. Most people looking at his life objectively would view him as a thug and not very noteworthy, even if they were otherwise sympathetic to Nazism. He wasn't a senior Nazi. He wasn't even a key Brownshirt. If he had lived, virtually nobody would have known who he was. However he died under politically advantageous circumstances at least if you ignore the context of it. A communist murdered him, and the Nazi media basically just ignored that he was thug and a deadbeat.

Well, our Democratic Party and media (which has no more integrity or respect for truth than Goebbels did) is doing the same thing with Floyd. Had his arrest gone smoothly, we'd have no idea who he was. He was a career criminal, stoned off his ***, and trying to essentially rob people through counterfeiting. However, he died while interacting with a white cop and on video, so all the bad **** he did (which was overwhelmingly the dominant theme of his life) is being wiped away, and he's being hailed as a heroic martyr. That is the work of partisan propagandists, not of serious journalists or truth-seekers.

 

[bystander]

What we are seeing more and more is the expectation that the police should know their suspect. They should know if they are having a mental "event" or not. They should know if they are in the middle of turning their life around but are having a "relapse" that should be prioritized in the apprehension phase.

This to me is the real problem. It is giving up on blaming those who behave in a manner that prompts a survival instinct response on the part of the police and instead putting the entire burden on the one who is charged with dealing with the crime.

That being said, we still need to improve as was indicated to me by the Floyd case (Knee on the neck) or other cases where it appears shooting the suspect was reckless and over the top. But in general, the burden is completely on the police officer to know and care for the suspect. That is why they are wanting to shift money to "social" working type responses instead of the police bent on apprehension and self-survival.

 

[lkainer]

• Odds of being struck by lightning in a given year 1/1,222,000
• Odds of being unarmed and shot and killed by police in a given year 1/7,900,000
• Odds of being unarmed and die in the custody of on and off duty police by any means 1/4,200,000
• Don't do drugs, commit crimes, attack the police, and resist arrest and your odds get even better

Narrative of Racist Police Killings Melts When You Know These Stats | CNSNews

 

[Garmel]

What we are seeing more and more is the expectation that the police should know their suspect. They should know if they are having a mental "event" or not. They should know if they are in the middle of turning their life around but are having a "relapse" that should be prioritized in the apprehension phase.

This to me is the real problem. It is giving up on blaming those who behave in a manner that prompts a survival instinct response on the part of the police and instead putting the entire burden on the one who is charged with dealing with the crime.

That being said, we still need to improve as was indicated to me by the Floyd case (Knee on the neck) or other cases where it appears shooting the suspect was reckless and over the top. But in general, the burden is completely on the police officer to know and care for the suspect. That is why they are wanting to shift money to "social" working type responses instead of the police bent on apprehension and self-survival.

There wasn't a knee on the neck. If it was Floyd would not have been able to turn his head while on the ground, which he did. Even the prosecution conceded that point.

 

[iatrogenic]

Dude. That's harsh.

Or comedy gold....