Riots in Minneapolis

theiioftx said:
I vote Dionysus ban Lobot’s constant retweets. I welcome his comment and analysis, but I am sick of his racist, biased and unfair tweets. He is not a sponsor. He just spews s***.
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Yeah, I know. It’s a tough pill to swallow. Maybe a beating, I can’t say, but that learning is to your benefit. If it’s just more than you can bear, take the AC way out and ring the ignore bell. Don’t let the rage consume you. Don’t let your pain destroy you or the exhaustion defeat you.

Lastly, I’ve never said that since I’m driving more clicks, you should be paying more for my content. But I do want to sponsor a fundraiser. I pledge to continue to donate my content for just $5 from select members only, limit 20 donors. Send directly to HornFans, as I’m no longer accepting funds from any of y’all.

Ok. Cool. Hookem.
 
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theiioftx said:
I traveled today so just now catching up. Lobot and OUMoocher are on a roll. They either are for all of this and are despicable human beings, or they are tools of the left. Lobot generates way too many tweets to be legitimate while the Mooch - with all his degrees - certainly supports the Antifa violence. You would think he could afford to donate since he can bet $25 whole dollars on Antifa.
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I"m now starting to think he is a Chinese dude writing his crap to draw support for the left. Oh hoping this liberal turd is one of the rioters who gets their asses kicked.

LongestHorn said:
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That should make it safer for kids in Minnesota.

LongestHorn said:
Yeah, I know. It’s a tough pill to swallow. Maybe a beating, I can’t say, but that learning is to your benefit. If it’s just more than you can bear, take the AC way out and ring the ignore bell. Don’t let the rage consume you. Don’t let your pain destroy you or the exhaustion defeat you.

Lastly, I’ve never said that since I’m driving more clicks, you should be paying more for my content. But I do want to sponsor a fundraiser. I pledge to continue to donate my content for just $5 from select members only, limit 20 donors. Send directly to HornFans, as I’m no longer accepting funds from any of y’all.

Ok. Cool. Hookem.
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Just think of this, the right wingers have most of the guns in this country, and for the most part we have stayed very calm through all of this. I think it's time for the gloves to come off and restraint to take a back seat to putting ANTIFA in the dirt. Hope LH is a member of ANTIFA
 
NJlonghorn said:
I don't have any reason to think it is relevant to the incident. But it is relevant to the psychology of the response. And no, I don't mean it excuses the response -- I just mean it helps to explain it.

I understand your point and accept it to a degree. But it doesn't explain away the psychology of the response. If law-abiding black people feel they are unfairly targeted by the police for their law-abiding conduct, it is only natural that they will be biased when it comes time to judge how police treat other black people. When you couple that bias with a decades-old tendency to excuse police misconduct, you create conditions for a hostile response -- even if the response is irrational judged on the facts of an individual case.
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I understand the psychology, and to the extent that the psychology leads to protest, I think it's understandable. Protest for injustice (whether real or perceived) is understandable and reasonable. However, two big factors keep me from jumping on the Black Lives Matter bandwagon. First, violence on innocent people or their property is not reasonable or acceptable, and it can't be dismissed or rationalized. Far, far too many on the political Left (politicians and media figures) do that.

Second, the overriding narrative (widespread police racism, racial animus, and baseless targeting of black men by police) that is driving the psychology isn't supported by objective facts and evidence. In fact, most of the evidence contradicts that narrative. However, if you bring up any evidence that contradict the narrative (and there's a lot), you'll get attacked without the merits of the evidence being addressed.

Tolerance for violence and unwillingness to weigh evidence means we can't have an intelligent and civil conversation about the issue. And frankly, it's sad, because I actually do think there is room for criticism of the criminal justice system. I'm not one of these people who thinks it's all great and that blacks largely get a fair shake. They frequently don't. However, most of it isn't because they're black. It's because (1) people without money can't effectively fight a prosecution with unlimited resources, (2) the substantive and procedural laws and practices usually favor prosecution, and (3) jurors tend to distrust and dislike criminal defendants and criminal defense attorneys and tend to trust and like police officers and prosecutors. However, if you want to address these problems intelligently, nobody will listen or care. The race card motivates white liberals. Substantive issues that aren't equipped for easy virtue signalling don't seem to.
 
Mr. Deez said:
First, violence on innocent people or their property is not reasonable or acceptable, and it can't be dismissed or rationalized. Far, far too many on the political Left (politicians and media figures) do that.
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Like the violent murder by racist retired LEO & son on innocent black life and it being covered up by lying cops? Like racist Amy Cooper casually ringing LEO to come violently kill the innocent black life in the park? Or the most evil non-violent casual murder of an innocent black life you’ve ever witnessed, MrDeez? Is that what you mean? No. That didn’t move the BLM needle for you, did it?
Mr. Deez said:
Second, the overriding narrative (widespread police racism, racial animus, and baseless targeting of black men by police) that is driving the psychology isn't supported by objective facts and evidence. In fact, most of the evidence contradicts that narrative. However, if you bring up any evidence that contradict the narrative (and there's a lot), you'll get attacked without the merits of the evidence being addressed.
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University of California, Davis professor found “evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average.”
I know, fake study because liberals, right?
FBI study, or is that too deep state liberal?

Homeland Defense study of racist right wing extremists infiltrating LEO?

Study of racist cops on social media doesn’t count because protected speech, right?

And another study of racist cops being racists on social media.

A study of racist NAZI cops who routinely violate civil rights, are motivated by “racial hostility” and use “terrorist-type tactics” with the knowledge of their superiors. Nothing systemic there?

Study of racist text by SF PD?

Study of cops beatings, then lies, to keep being cops isn’t systemic is it?

Mr. Deez said:
However, most of it isn't because they're black.
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But some of it is. Because a few bad cop apples. In every LEO community across the US. That’s not systemic, is it? It’s not systemic that the black can’t afford legal resources, or that a jury is more likely to believe the LEO they need trust to make this all work, when we later learn the cops lied. In every LEO community across the US. The whole justice show is rigged against them, but that’s not systemic. If they could just afford a better attorney like you, MrDeez. Not racism, but rather poverty, is why. They can’t afford justice, right?

That doesn’t move the BLM needle for the rational MrDeez. He’s a very cool customer.

Or maybe your BLM needle is broken at your core? And that’s not racist, but rather just how you were raised.

Or maybe you just need glasses?
 
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LongestHorn said:
Yeah, I know. It’s a tough pill to swallow. Maybe a beating, I can’t say, but that learning is to your benefit. If it’s just more than you can bear, take the AC way out and ring the ignore bell. Don’t let the rage consume you. Don’t let your pain destroy you or the exhaustion defeat you.

Lastly, I’ve never said that since I’m driving more clicks, you should be paying more for my content. But I do want to sponsor a fundraiser. I pledge to continue to donate my content for just $5 from select members only, limit 20 donors. Send directly to HornFans, as I’m no longer accepting funds from any of y’all.

Ok. Cool. Hookem.
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I would be open to a drive for sponsors to increase their donation by 10% if Dion bans you from posting your trash tweets. You and mOUch are part of a national problem of inciting ignorance through tweets. Look at mOUch’s tweet that the arsonist in Nashville was a 3% guy. Look at your tweet about police pointing guns after rioters threw bricks. You are either ignorant or an intentionally bad person. If you need a tool to spew your hate, at least pay for it.
 
LongestHorn said:
Like the violent murder by racist retired LEO & son on innocent black life and it being covered up by lying cops? Like racist Amy Cooper casually ringing LEO to come violently kill the innocent black life in the park? Or the most evil non-violent casual murder of an innocent black life you’ve ever witnessed, MrDeez? Is that what you mean? No. That didn’t move the BLM needle for you, did it?
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I'm willing to consider the facts of any anecdote, but I don't form policy views or judge generally based on anecdotes. My mother got punched in the face on the subway in San Francisco. She got assaulted and almost had her purse stolen with me and my sisters waking with her. (She jabbed the dude in the nuts, and he ran away before he could get her purse.) My brother had a gun pulled on him in school in Oakland, CA. And I've got many more from my days in Oakland. Every single one of these involved a black person. However, these anecdotes don't make black people in general bad. They make those specific black people bad. The other several thousand black people we encountered over those years we're perfectly fine people. The same is true of cops.

LongestHorn said:
University of California, Davis professor found “evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average.”
I know, fake study because liberals, right?
FBI study, or is that too deep state liberal?
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I don't doubt the accuracy of the study. My problem with it is that it is astoundingly superficial and conclusory. It disregards very essential information.

LongestHorn said:
Homeland Defense study of racist right wing extremists infiltrating LEO?

Study of racist cops on social media doesn’t count because protected speech, right?

And another study of racist cops being racists on social media.

A study of racist NAZI cops who routinely violate civil rights, are motivated by “racial hostility” and use “terrorist-type tactics” with the knowledge of their superiors. Nothing systemic there?

Study of racist text by SF PD?

Study of cops beatings, then lies, to keep being cops isn’t systemic is it?
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If you catch a cop committing misconduct, fire him and if criminal, prosecute him. If he's actually in the Klan or any organization that's directly involved in violence, fire him. However, just because he says something you don't like on Twitter isn't a reason to fire him.

LongestHorn said:
But some of it is. Because a few bad cop apples. In every LEO community across the US. That’s not systemic, is it? It’s not systemic that the black can’t afford legal resources, or that a jury is more likely to believe the LEO they need trust to make this all work, when we later learn the cops lied. In every LEO community across the US. The whole justice show is rigged against them, but that’s not systemic. If they could just afford a better attorney like you, MrDeez. Not racism, but rather poverty, is why. They can’t afford justice, right?
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Yep, it's primarily about money. That's why OJ Simpson could beat the rap. It's why R. Kelly and NFL football players frequently best the rap. Black defendants with lots of money do pretty well in the justice system. I may piss some people off, but prosecutors are sorta candy asses as lawyers. The cases they handle are almost always slam-dunk. Juries love them and think they're heroes. Many judges are former prosecutors, so far more judges think like they do. They can easily outgun their opposition with resources. And when someone can turn the tables on all that, they get weak or lose, whether the defendant is white or black.

But there's no virtue signaling opportunities for you in fixing this stuff.
 
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LongestHorn said:
University of California, Davis professor found “evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average.”
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Mr. Deez said:
I don't doubt the accuracy of the study. My problem with it is that it is astoundingly superficial and conclusory. It disregards very essential information.
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I read the study, and it looks accurate. It specifically states the following:

It is important to reiterate that these risk ratios come only from the sample of individuals who were shot by police and census data on race/ethnicity-specific population information. The USPSD does not have information on encounter rates between police and subjects according to ethnicity. As such, the data cannot speak to the relative risk of being shot by a police officer conditional on being encountered by police, and do not give us a direct window into the psychology of the officers who are pulling the triggers.

Tragically, across a large proportion of counties, individuals who were shot by police had a higher median probability of being unarmed black individuals than being armed white individuals. While this pattern could be explained by reduced levels of crime being committed by armed white individuals

The geographically-resolved proxy of racial animus used in this study, however, did not show a reliable association with racial bias in police shootings,

 
iatrogenic, how dare you read the article and make rational conclusions of it! You were just supposed to go along with Longest Horn and call everyone a racist.
 
How can we understand one another when our historical experience and emotional bonds are so different from others living in the same country for generations?

Patriotism is a love for one's country. And we see it manifested in modern times by celebrations of historical markers such as the Fourth of July or the reverence shown the founders and signers of the Constitution. There are also cultural bonds that divide us into groups based upon the ancestry of ourselves and our people. We are fascinated by our family tree and spend hours devoted to the past lives that preceded ours. And then there are bonds of race that are forged by common historical experience which we seen as the holocaust and 2,000 year diaspora of those of Jewish faith along with slavery and Jim Crow laws suffered by our fellow African-American citizens. Yet it seems to me that some would have the African-Americans "get over" the past. It's as if only good things should live on in modern times, firing our pride and connection with the history of our country. But if these good things, which all happened before we were born, matter so much, why is it that the psychological burden of evil done to the ancestors of modern day Americans is not to be understood? There is no getting over patriotism or slavery. The psychological impact is real and will always remain. So we must not wonder why outrage has such a hair-trigger almost fifty years after the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Because the roots of pride in our country dates back much further. And we had nothing to do with it yet it somehow accrues to us as if we are the founders. And it stands to reason that the horrific past accrues to those who share the same skin color as those who lived through our worst times as a nation. Nobody will get over it. They only want to make it better. But the freedoms they enjoy today are not free enough because they know there will be no vengeance to be gained for the horrific past. And that understandable burden remains in the minds of those who are reminded that it is only the passing of time that has saved them from the fate of their forbears because racism is still the anesthesia for the inferiority complex that exists inside the heart of ignorance.
 
i'm saddened by the left/right of the discussion.

i have close friends, (black) who are military veterans, pastors, UT educated engineers, that tell me they feel the tension of their hands on their steering wheel when a police car pulls in behind them and they wonder if their kids will grow up without a father.

there is no reason not to stand up as humans and support the idea that we are all created equal. man, we love the story of the Boston Tea Party in America. we love that our kids learn that. destruction of property. wholesale destruction of valuable goods. i don't agree with the destruction of property, but lives are more important than stuff. i question those who invalidate the anger of hundreds of years of oppression because some angry blacks and some nazi whites are inciting destruction. you are throwing the baby out with the bath water.
 
bystander, that is why forgiveness is so important.

It is most important for the things in the distant past. Let them stay in the past. If you don't, the past will harm you today. It only destroys your psychology and makes enjoyment of today more difficult.

As injustice happens today, it isn't so simple. You can't just ignore it. You have to address it so that it can be put in the past and forgotten as much as possible. That is why we have to address police brutality, the laws that grant them immunity, etc. You have to give people a clear avenue for addressing problems and then clearly resolve those problems.

That is part of the problem with violent protest. What specifically are they calling for? Justice? What does that mean? There has to be a converstation, then a negotiation, and then an agreement with compromise between 2 parties. Who are the 2 parties? No negotiation is even possible because there is no real representation or organization of those who are seeking redress. Once the anger is over and the riots stop, nothing will be done. That is why it is all so meaningless and inconsequential. Maybe Congress rewrites the qualified immunity laws. That would be a good thing. But who know what the new law will be, when or if it will be passed, and what the unintended consequences are?

If the riots are really about George Floyd's murder, then justice will most likely come. The case should be solid that Chauvin is guilty of either murder or manslaughter. So why all the destruction and violence? Does that make Chauvin any more likely to be convicted? No.

If the riots are happening to bring broader change. What is that change? I haven't heard that explained. We aren't going to give reparations. We aren't going to increase affirmative action. We aren't going to give free admission into schools. So should we expect riots any time a black person is killed by the police? If the situation doesn't go beyond that, the only outcome will be more strict responses to rioting. That won't solve anything either.

Who is going to take the leadership of this "movement"? Who is going to be the next MLK or Malcolm X? Until someone or some group steps forward and has some level of legitimacy with the victims and the government, nothing will happen.
 
"If the riots are happening to bring broader change. What is that change? I haven't heard that explained."
This^
From what I see the protests have no purpose but we all have to pretend it is a a good thing.The looting and destruction are just plain criminal.
 
LongestHorn said:
Like the violent murder by racist retired LEO & son on innocent black life and it being covered up by lying cops?
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I do not deny the murder or the violence, I do however don't know the motive and neither do you. Maybe it was or maybe it wasn't. That is for an impartial jury to decide and for the prosecution to find. I'm willing to let them do their job, are you willing to let them or are you going to run with the racism narrative no matter the findings? We all know the answer to that, you've already made up your mind.

LongestHorn said:
Like racist Amy Cooper casually ringing LEO to come violently kill the innocent black life in the park?
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Or maybe she is mentally ill and has bad traumatic experiences in the park. Is there any empathy for women who have been traumatized by men? Again I don't know her story, but if I made a judgement I'd call her bat **** crazy before I called her a racist.


LongestHorn said:
Or the most evil non-violent casual murder of an innocent black life you’ve ever witnessed,
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Are you sure it's the most? What if I told you I've seen worse. I don't excuse either the cops in Minneapolis, or the two idiots in Georgia, but they are not the attitudes of the over 1 million cops in the United States. I guess if it is then we need to treat every liberal like the criminals they are and kill them all. After all the men that beat that poor old woman with a board is who you are and you need to be put down like the dog you are.

LongestHorn said:
But some of it is. Because a few bad cop apples. In every LEO community across the US. That’s not systemic, is it?
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If every cop was like the guys you tend to mention, then with around a million cops I'd expect to see a lot more dead black people. They must suck at being racist.

LongestHorn said:
It’s not systemic that the black can’t afford legal resources, or that a jury is more likely to believe the LEO they need trust to make this all work, when we later learn the cops lied. In every LEO community across the US. The whole justice show is rigged against them, but that’s not systemic.
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That is called economic, not systemic, you should learn your vocabulary. Do we have economic issues in our inner-cities, yes, but not just our inner-cities. Don't believe me, go to the **** small towns around east Texas and look at how some of the people live in the. Hell go to the valley in South Texas, The mining towns of West Virginia. Oklahoma people in general. :smokin: Lots of poor people out there. Over 50% of our population is on food stamps.



LongestHorn said:
Or maybe your BLM needle is broken at your core? And that’s not racist, but rather just how you were raised.
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Or maybe difficult to have empathy for a group of people who use the murder of one man as a reason to kill, loot, and destroy the cities of our country. Especially cities where the crime didn't happen. Remember, an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. These riots have just created more racist and confirmed the racial stereotypes of both sides.

With that said, I've seem some very amazing acts of kindness as well. The white supremacist being protected by the black woman, the black men surrounding the cop to protect him.

You are a very bitter person, I'm pretty sure your life sucks and you blame others for this. I don't know if it is economic or maybe you are a trust fund kid with no purpose in your life, but I pity you.
 
Nobody can ensure zero tolerance for a rogue cop killing black people. Nobody. But we can ensure swift retribution. We must somehow negotiate with the leaders of the black community to give the legal system at least a semblance of a chance to ensure that justice is served. Because a zero tolerance or else we loot is a form of extortion and will not soften the minds of those outraged by the looting.
 
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