Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Not much daylight between some Libertarians and Anarchists.
Protecting our 2nd Amendment Rights
- Thread starter Austin_Bill
- Start date
Not much daylight between some Libertarians and Anarchists.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
The fact that some people equate a red flag law having a guy who’s accused of spousal assault turning in his gun until cleared and deemed safe as a “come and take” moment is sad.
"Accused."
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
How about “charged”.
A little better. I'd have to think about it. It's still innocent until proven guilty. I'd rather the law be at the discretion of the judge and not automatic. The DA would have to make the case to the judge. I know what you're probably thinking, "The alleged victim might already be dead by then."
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
That’s too long. It really needs to be the first few weeks. That’s my opinion.
My point about Cuomo was related to his killing hundreds of older citizens by allowing Covid infected citizens into nursing homes. The same goes for Whitmer. I'm fairly certain Biden's call to illegals for a surge to the US border has killed quite a few as well. None of those three idiots used a gun to kill, which makes them more dangerous than a person with an AR 15, and justifies citizens keeping weapons of all types. Other big government devotees such as the Democrat Party, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Chavez, Xi, etc. can be added to my list of reasons to keep guns.
As far a keeping grenade launchers, I think some versions are already legal. I would rather have a .270 Ruger or a .300 Winchester or a .338 Lapua in a do or die gun fight. If you want to fear something, fear a high powered rifle reaching out and touching you when you don't have a clue. There are thousands of those among the citizenry.
I've gone through a nasty divorce and my ex lied to the judge on more than one occasion. We didn't challenge it too much because it was a skirmish in the middle of a war that I surprisingly came out ahead on including gaining full custody of my daughter.
The point being that it's tough in court to nail down what is true and what is not especially if you're relying solely on the grand jury. I'm not a lawyer but having gone through it and knowing the emotions, it is painfully clear to me that "evidence" is hard to nail down. You have to keep a lot of records and be able to pay your lawyer lots of money to be organized and present it as painstakingly detailed as it may require.
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I have to admit that I do not know where the line is for the 2nd amendment. I'm assuming I can't buy nuclear weapons or a fully loaded jet fighter plane and sit it in my front yard. What about a tank? What about a mortar? What about that bazooka? What about a Gatling Gun? What about a true automatic weapon as the gun experts around here would define it? There is a line somewhere and that in and of itself tells me the line can be moved because if a line was absolutely Unconstitutional (ARMS - how do you define ARMS? We know it's not just a single load musket right?) then there'd be no line.
Horns11
10,000+ Posts
OH ok I get your Cuomo comments. I'd also consider adding Noem and whoever else to the list, but I get it. The pandemic has taught us that stupidity has no monopoly on partisanship.
For the high powered rifles, I'm all in favor of those over mid-level semi automatic ones. It's a quantity thing I guess... I know it sounds sick, but what Charles Whitman did took a lot more effort than what the Las Vegas shooter did. I also think that people should have to prove proficiency on them too.
That's kind of what I was talking about with pre-pre-pre-Enlightenment in the other post. Once the first "gun," as the founding fathers would have understood one to be, was used, that's what was considered arms for that exact moment. I think that's silly to think where the power of arms should "end," but it's definitely a talking point. The way UAV's are controlled today is about as easy as Microsoft Flight Sim, and you could take out hundreds (thousands?) of people in a single sortie. I guess it's safe to say that as long as the populace is considered "the militia," and there are no training requirements for said militia, then maybe it's the Wild West for gun control.
I remember Buzbee parking one in front of his house in River Oaks...
The Complete Story of the River Oaks Tank
He may be aggy, but damned, the notion of parking a tank on the street makes me chuckle.
Sheldon Cooper
100+ Posts
Looking at all the shootings and if you pass all these gun control bills and it will have less than 1% impact on shootings.
Roughly 35% of gun violence is done by gang violence. That isn't going to change. 37% of suisides use a gun, if we took away those guns the odds are they would still kill themselves. People who want to kill themselves generally will find a way to do it. Thing is that also accounts for roughly 60% of gun deaths. I hate that those are counted in gun deaths. Right here if you are talking about gun deaths you have just covered 95% of gun deaths. These deaths no matter how many laws you pass won't change a thing with these two groups.
Let's talk a little more about gang related killings. Anyone think that gangsters are going to give up their guns? Take every gun off the streets in the US and the next day gangsters will have guns again. They account for about 35% of gun deaths. I believe that about 95% of those deaths are from handguns not rifles. Yet the left want to go after a firearm that generally accounts for about 200 deaths a year.
The left buys this garbage and eats it up and then regurgitates it to anyone who will listen.
Take every AR15 off the streets of the US and you will stop roughly 200 deaths per year.
So why go after the AR15? Because the aim isn't to get the AR!5, the aim is all guns and these laws are just the ground work. What their aim is is to repeal the 2nd amendment and disarm the US and then they can do what they want and we just have to take it.
We are said to be a constitutional Republic, and that document says we have the right to Life Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our founding fathers added the 2nd Amendment because they knew guns were how we could protect those rights. Be it a gangster, or an abusive family member, or an abusive government. We have a right to protection of ourselves and our family. The left would take that right away from us.
Roughly 35% of gun violence is done by gang violence. That isn't going to change. 37% of suisides use a gun, if we took away those guns the odds are they would still kill themselves. People who want to kill themselves generally will find a way to do it. Thing is that also accounts for roughly 60% of gun deaths. I hate that those are counted in gun deaths. Right here if you are talking about gun deaths you have just covered 95% of gun deaths. These deaths no matter how many laws you pass won't change a thing with these two groups.
Let's talk a little more about gang related killings. Anyone think that gangsters are going to give up their guns? Take every gun off the streets in the US and the next day gangsters will have guns again. They account for about 35% of gun deaths. I believe that about 95% of those deaths are from handguns not rifles. Yet the left want to go after a firearm that generally accounts for about 200 deaths a year.
The left buys this garbage and eats it up and then regurgitates it to anyone who will listen.
Take every AR15 off the streets of the US and you will stop roughly 200 deaths per year.
So why go after the AR15? Because the aim isn't to get the AR!5, the aim is all guns and these laws are just the ground work. What their aim is is to repeal the 2nd amendment and disarm the US and then they can do what they want and we just have to take it.
We are said to be a constitutional Republic, and that document says we have the right to Life Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our founding fathers added the 2nd Amendment because they knew guns were how we could protect those rights. Be it a gangster, or an abusive family member, or an abusive government. We have a right to protection of ourselves and our family. The left would take that right away from us.
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Sheldon Cooper
100+ Posts
It would take roughly 20,000 well trained citizens with a plan to bring down the infrastructure of this country within 24 hours. This is exactly what I was told by a special forces retiree I went to high school with. It would be incredibly easy to take down a single city like San Antonio by going after the Edwards aquifer a few power plants and the main highways like 35, and 10 and you have pure chaoes in this city. I'm sure it would be easier in a city like New York or Los Angeles.
If you don't think guns can take down our military then why did we fight a losing battle in Afghanistan for the last 15 years? Why did the USSR fight the same losing battle in the same country in the 1980's?
Too easy for a pissed off spouse to use such a law as a weapon.
Last number I saw was that there were over 60 privately owned tanks in the US and over 30 privately owned cannons. You can go to any gun show and pick up a flame thrower. I have yet to see any of these used in a crime.
I bought a pistol from Academy yesterday. First pistol I’ve bought retail since Clinton’s assault weapon ban in the early 90’s.
I was handed an IPAD to answer questions like “are you a fugitive from the law?” or “are you an illegal alien?” and other dumb questions about being a criminal or bad person. If I was, would I just walk out of the store? No, I’m a criminal and I would lie to get the gun. But then again, I would be out stealing guns rather than buying one legitimately.
As I waited for approval, they rolled out a cart with 9mm ammo. Bought 2 boxes of 100 rounds. Before I left the store in 30 minutes, the remaining boxes were quickly gone even with a two box limit. The gun cases and racks were largely empty. If you libs don’t think America is on edge, you are not paying attention.
I was handed an IPAD to answer questions like “are you a fugitive from the law?” or “are you an illegal alien?” and other dumb questions about being a criminal or bad person. If I was, would I just walk out of the store? No, I’m a criminal and I would lie to get the gun. But then again, I would be out stealing guns rather than buying one legitimately.
As I waited for approval, they rolled out a cart with 9mm ammo. Bought 2 boxes of 100 rounds. Before I left the store in 30 minutes, the remaining boxes were quickly gone even with a two box limit. The gun cases and racks were largely empty. If you libs don’t think America is on edge, you are not paying attention.
They know. They think Conservatives are ready to revolt. They believe what happened at the Capital is the tip of the iceberg.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
I don't want to disappoint this crowd but I've asked my friend Mark to be the one to put me down on the street when they round up the Democrats and put us down. Sorry.
He'll do it humanely. He's the OSU neighbor that I flew an OU flag on his pole for Bedlam.
1) Liberals wanting much stricter gun control laws
2) Liberals wanting to raise taxes, pay reparations, give illegals benefits etc.
3) Liberals cancelling everyone, white privilege campaign
Who is the aggressor and who is reacting to that aggression?
Horns11
10,000+ Posts
Suicide: Only 3.4% of suicide attempts in 2019 resulted in death, according to the CDC. The accessibility of a gun is one of the main things that actually "mitigates," to put it sickly, that factor. I agree that we shouldn't count them as gun-related deaths for the purpose of arguing about active shooters and the like, but don't doubt for a second that the availability of guns is definitely linked to suicides.
No one is here arguing that gang violence will end if gun control laws are passed.
"Take every AR15 off the streets of the US and you will stop roughly 200 deaths per year."
OK? If there was an inanimate object other than a gun, like a pogo stick, and someone did a study that showed if we ban pogo sticks then 200 lives will be saved per year, then what? Pogo hobbyists have every right to be upset about it, but we're back to the "weighing lives versus my freedom" stuff that will never go away.
You know the 2nd amendment will never be repealed. It's that same boogeyman (or strawman) that gets out the vote. You don't like the people who don't like your guns, and that's fine. I'm sure they'd say "right back at you" without resorting to stockpiling ammo and putting up "come and take my pogo stick" signs.
You're mixing up the DoI and the Constitution with your last paragraph, and the left isn't even CLOSE to taking away that right.
The extreme hatred from feminists and left-wing Liberals for the gun culture creates a distrust that will never be overcome.
Horns11
10,000+ Posts
I don't doubt that. I just don't think that distrust precludes many common-sense issues with popular middle-ground support.
There ARE plenty of feminists who aren't seeking any manner of change to gun culture...of course the reason you don't hear from many of them is the actions of the left to try and cancel anyone who won't toe the party line...
I liken (is that a word?) this whole thing to the immigration argument. I want the DACA kids to be taken care of. But when you have a vile vocal intractable and powerful political force wanting to abolish ICE, create sanctuary cities, tipping off illegals about raids, etc. then how can you cut a deal? It will never end. They consider anyone who doesn't agree with them to be racists and evil monsters. So Republican's say no because the Left say's no to the wall and Biden comes in and changes things up in a manner that waves them over.
So with the guns, what should we do? When the scary looking guns are seized, the psycho killers will use something else. And that will become a pretext for what is believe to be the end-game... a seizure of virtually all guns except maybe for hunting or a few other token firearms. Beto is the future. He showed his feminist gun hating side. The Constitution is clear. And when people say, "Come and Take It," it's a rallying cry for saying No to the extremists.
And I'm a person who has never owned a gun in his life.
Exactly. The left is creating a powder keg. I don't know how many times I've heard legal immigrants complain that they left their home countries for the same **** the left is currently trying to do to this country.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
1. MOST liberals want common sense and bipartisan agreed things like universal background checks. Nothing liberals "want" and can get done is not much stricter.
2. I think if we could just reverse the Trump tax cuts that were not across the board we'd be happy. Most don't think reparations is a good idea and I know of no one who thinks giving illegals benefits is a good idea.
3. Dixie Chicks, NFL, Nike, HBO, Glenfiddich, Twitter, Debra Messing, ATT, Harley Davidson, Apple, Karl Rove, Meghan Kelly, french fries, etc.
This is also funny: Altercation: When the Right Cancels It, It Ain’t Cancel Culture “Update: CPAC [the Conservative Political Action Conference] has cancelled Young Pharaoh’s scheduled appearance following the publication of this article. Young Pharaoh’s information has also been removed from CPAC’s website. The theme of this year’s gathering is ‘America Uncancelled.’”
It's like a really slow tennis match.
I know the Dixie Chicks were slapped around pretty hard. Patriotism is very emotional for many people and they were in Europe (home of white privilege, marauding imperialists, killers of indigenous tribes, Hitler etc) and decided they wanted to bond with that legacy. So that was it as far as tried and true country fans are concerned. The lead singer called Toby Keith ignorant and I laughed about it. The thing is, I can't stand that all shucks red neck Blake Shelton phony baloney, but they asked for trouble by cozing up to Europe when a war was on. It was like Jane Fonda. Funny thing is how Michelle loves George Bush now.
Twitter is engaging in raw censorship.
Debra Messing is a loud mouth Hollywood phony white privileged person. Not sure about Karl Rove or what that is...
French Fries came about because France refused to support the US in the Iraq war. It was a big deal at the time.
The real cancel culture we're talking about is the idea that if you don't support BLM or Metoo and all the other sub-groups unconditionally then you will be attacked. It's the social level activism on the ground that makes so many people afraid to speak their opinion. It is fully operational.
Why do you think Trump won? No, it's not because we are a nation of white supremacist Nazi's. It's because so many are sick of the attacks from the Left. PCness is a Leftist construct 100% and it is a political tool to stamp out dissent.
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OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
I stumbled onto a list of things Trump wanted cancelled. I thought those two were funny.
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