If they're failures, then why should they be defended? Seems like a losing proposition to me.
Post-Trump GOP
- Thread starter BrntOrngStmpeDe
- Start date
If they're failures, then why should they be defended? Seems like a losing proposition to me.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Exactly. If there is silence on a topic you can be assured there isn't support.
For me personally, I haven't visited the Biden accountability thread for months recognizing it was simply a place for Trump supporters to whine. I'll let them have their place to vent, absent reality.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
fify
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Nah, please don't try to put words in my mouth, an all too common occurrence with some here. Too many strawman arguments due to an inability to debate the poster in front of them.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
I play the role of pivot man in the circle all too often. I figure a thread picking apart Biden would be like a Sooner posting...never mind.Exactly. If there is silence on a topic you can be assured there isn't support.
For me personally, I haven't visited the Biden accountability thread for months recognizing it was simply a place for Trump supporters to whine. I'll let them have their place to vent, absent reality.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
True. But if they would have stood their ground, if FDR would have packed the courts, we would remember FDR much more honestly as the tyrant he was.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Inability to debate.. that's why you haven't been to the Biden accountability thread. Prove me wrong. Certainly there's SOMETHING he's fked up that you could provide some defense. Bring blueanon with you, if he isn't too busy inventing new friends that died of covid..
You know why? Because Biden and Harris are making Trump’s election a ******* cake walk.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
Does anyone right now really believe Biden could beat anyone? Even Trump
The buyers remorse on the shitshow is so bad right now, Trump would carry NLT 35 states. DeSantis, my current choice, would do the same
The buyers remorse on the shitshow is so bad right now, Trump would carry NLT 35 states. DeSantis, my current choice, would do the same
You and I might, but I'm not sure the public would. The media and academic world would defend the move. They'd say, "well he had to do it. They were striking down his agenda." It's a little like when they defend DACA. It's an abuse of power, but they justify it by saying "Congress wouldn't act," as if that's a reason to knowingly break the law.
By the way, though I defend the Four Horsemen on New Deal cases, I'm not a huge fan of those guys, because they were believers in the Lochner doctrine, which was as legally tyrannical as Roe or Dred Scott.
Feel free to enlighten us with any positives for Biden or Harris. You won’t because you can’t. He has been a total disaster with Covid, Foreign Policy, Economic Policy, American Unity, and Immigration.Exactly. If there is silence on a topic you can be assured there isn't support.
For me personally, I haven't visited the Biden accountability thread for months recognizing it was simply a place for Trump supporters to whine. I'll let them have their place to vent, absent reality.
Barring unemployment being at about 25 percent, Trump will never get elected in a cakewalk. It'll be a nail biter again, and he'd likely lose the popular vote again.
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
Could you explain? Sounds interesting.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I have no desire to jump into another pissing match where the argument strategy of choice is strawman arguments. It's as if y'all think Bubba and I are card carrying members of "The Crew".
Now, back to the regularly scheduled topic of this thread: Post-Trump GOP. It's clear there is not "Post-Trump" GOP. Maybe the thread title should more appropriately be titled Post-GOP Trump? The Republican party is no more. It's being purged of the value system it's espoused for decades in favor of whatever Trump wants.
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Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
So, no positives in regards to the policies and results of Biden and Harris?
Interesting. After seeing Gaetz just now castrate Milley and Austin I can understand why
I disagree. There is still a substantial number of typical GOP supporters out there but the fight or flight response has made many of them glom onto Trump for the time being. Trump has been really effective at making other GOP pay a big price for anything less than full throated support, so many of them are waiting it out in relative silence, but that is not the same as saying they have all changed to Trump. Trump is strong at motivating his base and they are of course fearful of that possibility. I think some GOP Senators that were recently re-elected (hence 6 yrs to bide their time) should come out and declare their opposition to a Trump re-run for the good of the party.
But i do think Trump has changed the type of candidate that will succeed in the GOP for the near future. The go-along candidate will not be tolerated any more. If you are not capable or willing to push back strong against MSM, you won't be the GOP nominee in the next 2-3 cycles. Trump's policies are not that different than other GOP. His willingness to go no-holds-barred(with anyone and everyone, friend or foe) in the political ring is largely what is different.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Thank you for the thought provoking insight. It could be there are many traditional GOP conservatives in hiding. They disguise themselves at Trump supporters because anything less that than in the GOP is committing party seppuku.
The question is that when Trump finally releases his chokehold on the party, will there be any room for more traditional GOP'ers to regain prominence. What happens if Trump has already purged those people from party leadership and installed his own people? We are already seeing that occur at the local and state party level. The more traditional GOP are literally being sidelined with less deep, more extreme Trump sycophants replacing them. Examples of these types of people are Karen Fann/Wendy Rogers in AZ but they are there in LA, GA, PA, WI and others. They identify themselves by admonishing/censoring any politician that doesn't support Trump in full-throated fashion.
I'm clearly not a GOP'er but I think's it's a massive miscalculation if the traditional GOP thinks they can simply wait out Trump. He has fundamentally changed the GOP both in membership and party platform. It used to be that the GOP had reliable principles that even if you didn't agree were typically more the "adult" in the room focused on more reality issues.
I have the same fear about the Democtratic Party but Biden's nomination is at least 1 clue the moderates of the party still hold the keys to power for now. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about the Republican Party. There, the moderates or truly principled conservatives (as opposed to anti-Progressive) have been marginalized or excised (see Liz Cheney) from the party.
We'll have to agree to disagree that Trump's policies are "not that different from other GOP". I get the perspective that compromise is not acceptable, the left has that wing of their party too. Trump's policies on immigration, debt, education and several others were very different, even radical compared to the GOP. The fact that the extreme positions have become normalize don't mean they weren't radically different than previous GOP stances.
OUBubba
5,000+ Posts
Pre-trump the Madison cawthorns, MTG, Lauren Boberts of the world didn’t get elected. Now they’re all in a contest to see who can hug the trump flag the best.
Horn2RunAgain
2,500+ Posts
I thought TDS would have subsided a bit by now. I stand corrected
You won’t because you can’t. Deflecting about red herrings and the good old days is an excuse. And excuses are like ********. Just give us something to say Joe is good for the country.
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Madison Cawthorn is really tragic, because there is potential. He's a young, good-looking guy who's well-spoken for his age and has obviously overcome something really terrible to accomplish something big. (He also has a hot wife.) There could be cause for optimism. However, he then opens his mouth and is clearly a massive wingnut. (He's also rumored to be a pig in his personal life.)
Sad.
I respect both of you guys a lot, so I hesitate to be critical. However, I think you're going about this the wrong way. Belligerently telling Husker and Switzer to come defend the Biden Administration isn't going to be productive, because though I don't think it's coming from a place of contempt, it is clearly coming from a place of bad faith. You're not going to have any kind of meaningful dialogue.
If you really want their comments, why not simply bring up the things you think Biden is screwing up (spending too much money, inflation, poor border enforcement, sloppy withdrawal from Afghanistan, etc.), and ask what they think of them? Don't tell them to defend them. That presumes they agree with them. Probably, it's a more nuanced and mixed bag. You could even ask if they regret their votes. (My guess is that they don't because of what the alternative was, but you can ask.) You could ask what kind of Right-leaning alternative, if any, they might have chosen if given the chance.
The point is that there's a way to open people up and get them to explain what they think of something, but belligerence isn't going to foster that.
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I respect you because you will call out the good and bad of what you see and have an honest debate. They didn’t hesitate to call out Trump during the last four years and continue even after he is no longer in office. Liberals and even moderates who ignore what is happening have blood on their hands.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
@Mr. Deez is wise beyond his years. There are posters on the West Mall capable of having insightful discussions, sharing competing ideas, offering new perspectives that inform world views. Then there are posters who have some preconceived view of a "progressive" and apply that lens to the other side. The latter group isn't interested in learning, being exposed to perspectives that might influence their view. Rather, they simply want a platform for telling their opponent why they are wrong and inevitably fall back to insults when their arguments aren't convincing.
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Or, there are posters who provide links showing evidence of the idiocy of the left and leave it at that.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Was your intention to declare yourself to be in the latter bucket by jumping to the insult so quickly? If so, the transparency is appreciated even if the sentiment isn't.
I'm not suggesting that you not call out Biden. Feel free to criticize him as you see fit, as they called out and criticized Trump. He has certainly earned plenty of criticism, and it's only fair to call him out. What I'm suggesting is that if you want others who supported Biden to engage those criticisms, I think you'd get a more meaningful discussion if you asked differently.
Just my opinion, and yes, defending Switzer feels like chewing on sand.
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