On the bathroom issue
- Thread starter Horn6721
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ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
You got him Husker. Mike wanted to be a woman for a few minutes so he could sneak into the girls' locker room. He's clearly a pervert and should be tossed into the lake of fire right now.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I was simply pointing Shark to where the reference came from. I do think Huckabee's joke, while funny, was absurd but I wouldn't charge him with being a pervert. Of course every teenage boy wants to shower with naked girls. Acting transgender and being transgender are two different things. The first is illegal no different than being a peeping tom. It's long been illegal and would remain illegal after these law changes.
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ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
And that's the argument I was just making. We don't use that logic with most of the other hot-button issues regarding minority or women's rights/safety/security. Why do we have hate crimes? It was already a crime to begin with, but the hope is that by putting additional emphasis on it, it will have further deterrence.
It amazes me how many people have said "hey, if a guy wanders into a woman's room and starts doing things inappropriately, there's a law against that already." Yes, that's true. it's also true that right now, a single man going into a woman's bathroom or locker room is going to raise suspicion. Now it won't - it CAN'T. We've already seen one woman get kicked out of her gym for bringing it up when a transgender man went into the women's locker room where she worked out. NO ONE is going to question why he's going in there. So he (the pervert, not the transgender) now is much more free to find a target, plan his act and do it without causing suspicion. It's made his predatory act easier, and even if it hasn't, it makes it seem like it's easier to people who might want to try it.
You're going to have more examples of men sneaking in and taking candid photos, knowing they can get out before the alarm is raised. And that's the best case scenario. The worst is out and out assault. You're going to have guys who are more willing to take a chance on going where they don't have any business going, because they know that no one is going to stop them from going out, and no one is going to accost them when they leave.
So that's hysterical how?
therein rests the problem...it is ALL based on the say-so of the individual in question, even if they never consulted the first doctor or took the first step towards 'transition.' The trans* contingent has DELIBERATELY kept the waters murky precisely because they do not want to have to go through any manner of mental or medical hoops. The masses have very little knowledge of the very small percentage of trans* individuals that actually seek ANY manner of medical intervention You are just supposed to take them at their word...which is how you wind up with the Christopher 'Jessica' Hambrooks of the world...or any number of examples that are easily found in just a few minutes with the google-fu.
Maybe I misread Crockett's use of Huck's statement. I took that to be a flame of Huckabee and the Christian right wing ... when it was clearly an effort to illustrate the absurdity of the "open policy" ... which is an obvious effort to remove any distinction ... with the absurdity of presuming Huckabee sincerely suggested he wished he were "transgender."
The hate crime deal is an effort to convict/punish for thoughts ... to increase the govt's control over the population.
The hate crime deal is an effort to convict/punish for thoughts ... to increase the govt's control over the population.
Here is what Huckabee said.
“For those who do not think that we are under threat, simply recognize that the fact that we are now in city after city watching ordinances say that your 7-year-old daughter, if she goes into the restroom cannot be offended and you can’t be offended if she’s greeted there by a 42-year-old man who feels more like a woman than he does a man.”
Huckabee continued saying saying he wished someone told him in high school he “could have felt like a woman” and shower with the girls.
“Now I wish that someone told me that when I was in high school that I could have felt like a woman when it came time to take showers in PE,” said Huckabee. “I’m pretty sure that I would have found my feminine side and said, ‘Coach, I think I’d rather shower with the girls today.’ You’re laughing because it sounds so ridiculous, doesn’t it?”
I referenced him because he's the only 'normal" person I know who has come out ... albeit jokingly ... saying he might have enjoyed the opportunity to perv out.
and what's problematic is the offense to law/policy for challenging this condition in a man entering the ladies' room.
How can anyone tell the difference? Can one person know another's heart?
Copy, Crockett ... as I mentioned, when I read your statement above, it seemed like a slam ... taking this comment as something Huckabee sincerely offered.
As far as the right wing and common sense, I think when legislation requires bearded, deep voiced persons who were born as women but went through a lot (surgery, hormone therapy, etc.) to become men, go pee in the women's restroom, then they have gone overboard and while "hysterial" might not be precisely the right word it's in the ballpark. Certainly any plan that would allow people to feel like men one day and women to pursue prurient interests would be bad policy as well. There is a common sense, common ground and I'd trust a committee of people like Deez or NJ Horn to draft the legislation. Ted Cruz and Nancy Peolosi? Not so much.
ok ... but as Deez said ... who's made the issue here?
the Cruz' or the Pelosi's? It's easily identifiable.
The Pelosi's have sought to exasperate >99.6% of the adult population for the <.4% which also seeks to influence the children into believing the lie about themselves.
It's the Pelosi's seeking to make it a crime to challenge the validity of a would-be transgendered claim. This is the looney bird part. Let's not only open the privacy of gender, the distinction of gender, to those who feel like they are the opposite gender, but lets foster an environment where, by law, we encourage voyeurism (as a minimum level of offense to decency)
How has this become a point of discussion?
Big govt proponents looking for another way to make big govt bigger ... and probably distracting from other venues of the same result --- big govt.
the Cruz' or the Pelosi's? It's easily identifiable.
The Pelosi's have sought to exasperate >99.6% of the adult population for the <.4% which also seeks to influence the children into believing the lie about themselves.
It's the Pelosi's seeking to make it a crime to challenge the validity of a would-be transgendered claim. This is the looney bird part. Let's not only open the privacy of gender, the distinction of gender, to those who feel like they are the opposite gender, but lets foster an environment where, by law, we encourage voyeurism (as a minimum level of offense to decency)
How has this become a point of discussion?
Big govt proponents looking for another way to make big govt bigger ... and probably distracting from other venues of the same result --- big govt.
Frankly, the NC statute probably comes the closest if forced to take a stance. It lets private entities do as they see fit given their clientele and communities. If it were me, I'd let local schools and cities do as they see fit in their own facilities as well. However, if you're going to force the issue, I would come down on the side of people with male genitals in the men's room and people with female genitals in the women's room. If you're going to have a law, it should rely on objective criteria, and if you tailor it for transgenderism, you're inherently making it a subjective issue, and that's bound to cause problems. Monahorns asked a fair question - what's the difference between being transgender and acting transgender. Nobody knows, and that's the problem. I really don't see what's wrong with having a men's room, women's room, and a gender neutral family restroom. It's not perfect for everybody in every situation, but it's as good as it gets.
Note - I'm going to reiterate that while I defend parts of the NC law, I still think sneaking in the banning of local minimum wages and eliminating the state cause of action for race, sex, and religious discrimination was terrible policy and extremely sleazy governance.
NJlonghorn
2,500+ Posts
That's NJ-LONG-horn, damnit. And it's a very long horn, let me assure you... I have no problems in that department.
XX goes here
XY goes here
X? goes here
Simple, sane, and it doesn't require any federal intervention from King Obama.
XY goes here
X? goes here
Simple, sane, and it doesn't require any federal intervention from King Obama.
That is funny. As much as I abhor Trump, he has certainly added an entertainment factor to the political arena that'll be around long after the race is over.
OK ... OK
However, I demand that this disparagement of the short-fingered stop. Look I'm 6'2", wear size 13 shoes and have Big Palms -- each the size of a really nice Fillet Mignon. But my fingers are short ... not as long as those of my 5'2" inch wife. They are capable fingers. I've lifted thousands of hay bales with them, bent barbed wires and opened jars for those of lesser capabilities. I never used those powerful, stubby fingers for sissy stuff like playing piano or knitting. Even today I count them as calloused, strong, macho fingers. I'll not have them denigrated as some black mark on my capabilities....unless it's painting with pastels or other girly stuff.
And you can tell Marco Rubio I'm a helluva lot more trustworthy than he is!
Monahorns
10,000+ Posts
This is from an evil Christian bigoted organization, but watch it anyway, it raises an issue that I think is important if you want to understand the push back.
http://www.faithfamilyamerica.com/p...derless_bathrooms_you_may_not_have_thought_of
http://www.faithfamilyamerica.com/p...derless_bathrooms_you_may_not_have_thought_of
Thank you for that link, Monahorns. That's a powerful video.
Monahans
This video points out the reason most people are against vague laws and ordinances forcing the vast majority of people to allow anyone into restrooms and locker rooms.
So far no one from the side that wants open restrooms etc has addressed this issue, of people who are not transgender but who have and will use these new ordinances or the idiotic BO directive to prey on children and even adults.
Instead these supporters fall back on the "you must be educated" to get over your bigotry.
IIRC in the cases I have read about transgendered students all the schools provided restrooms and showers which the transgender person could use in private. Why was that not acceptable?
Thank you for this vid. I wonder if it altered anyone's thinking that the only reason to oppose open restrooms is bigotry.
This video points out the reason most people are against vague laws and ordinances forcing the vast majority of people to allow anyone into restrooms and locker rooms.
So far no one from the side that wants open restrooms etc has addressed this issue, of people who are not transgender but who have and will use these new ordinances or the idiotic BO directive to prey on children and even adults.
Instead these supporters fall back on the "you must be educated" to get over your bigotry.
IIRC in the cases I have read about transgendered students all the schools provided restrooms and showers which the transgender person could use in private. Why was that not acceptable?
Thank you for this vid. I wonder if it altered anyone's thinking that the only reason to oppose open restrooms is bigotry.
You can bet that for sure there are WAY more people in the abused "boat" than in the transgender "boat". I am also betting that efforts to make a gender-neutral bathroom available in addition to traditional "men's" and "women's" bathrooms will be scorned as not good enough just as civil unions were not good enough for gays wanting to marry.
here is but one example
from Mesquite yesterday
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/05/17/shopper-upset-man-allowed-to-use-womens-dressing-room-in-ross/
from Mesquite yesterday
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/05/17/shopper-upset-man-allowed-to-use-womens-dressing-room-in-ross/
Sadly, this is what happens when rules replace common sense and common courtesy. Pricks use the rules to make things miserable so then the rules have to be further tightened. I guess what Dan Patrick and Mike Huckabee understood that I didn't would be the belligerent use of transgenderism.
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I agree with the first premise but not the second...
The concepts are differentiated by the fact that the bathroom issue impacts many while the title associated with the act of a gay or lesbian couple affects nobody but the two individuals. If I were to find a partner that I actually wanted to marry (less and less likely inclined to marry the closer I get to 50), whether I and the law call it a marriage or a civil union has precisely ZERO impact upon your life or the life of your wife or children (if any, particularly those of the female persuasion).
Conversely, opening up the women's bathroom to ANY male who proclaims delicate laydee-brain fee-fees has the real potential to place your wife and daughter(s) at risk EVERY SINGLE TIME they enter a multi-stall bathroom.
It isn't the FTT's clamoring for access to the men's room. It is the males who want to impose upon class female instead of taking steps to address whatever potential bias exists from other males who dress more 'conventionally.' NOTHING is ever good enough for the MTT's as evidenced by their other demands of the insurance industry that things like hair removal, voice surgeries and breast augmentation be provided, nevermind that they don't get covered for real women even in most cases of a breast removal due to breast cancer or where PCOS contributed to being hirsute. It will be a continuing game of drawing lines in the sand and then deciding that they want more...
I know I tend to lean left, but honestly I find people like the Danielle pictured above to be enormously irritating. Sure Danielle, I guess I know nothing about women (even way less than I thought I knew before I saw your picture) and unless I get to know you way better than I ever want to, I'll see you and think "Man." Sorry for the bigotry but I'm used to just glancing at folks and being able to treat them in a gender appropriate way. It's a shorthand that makes MY life simpler. Don't mean to rain on your parade. If you'll let me know where your parade is, I'll stay the hell away.
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