Israel = the Good Guys in the Middle East; Turks proving to be our enemies

Grant - a real son-of-a-***** and a butcher, but effective (though sometimes with stupid tactics). Ended that war a year earlier than it otherwise would have ended with 100,000 or more lives saved.
 
Gylcomer said:
And if you go about microwaving Jewish babies then your probably going to lose women and children in the counterattack
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Never happened. There were some outlandish claims but they were never substantiated. It was like the story of Snake Island and the Ghost of Kiev in the Ukraine/Russia war.
 
Monahorns said:
Never happened. There were some outlandish claims but they were never substantiated. It was like the story of Snake Island and the Ghost of Kiev in the Ukraine/Russia war.
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Perhaps it was fake news.

Israel’s neighbors, however, have twice proven that there cannot be a two state solution at this time. Given enough chances, Israel’s enemies will eventually succeed.

My Libertarian side is upset that our government has spent trillions trying to prevent this..to no avail. Sometimes one side has to win.
 
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So mircowaving didn't happen (I never saw that stupid story anyway)
but HOW does that change the horrors we do know Hamas did on babies women and elderly.
Weird attempt to cast doubt on fact by focusing on stupid links
 
Gylcomer said:
Israel’s neighbors, however, have twice proven that there cannot be a two state solution at this time. Given enough chances, Israel’s enemies will eventually succeed.
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Even today Israel's neighbors aren't trying to overthrow them. Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and Syria are sitting there. Hezbollah in Lebanon is shooting missiles at them no doubt. They should stop right now. It only escalates tensions and doesn't help Gazans out at all. The others aren't threatening them at all. Israel has the closest ties to Egypt that they ever have. Hamas doesn't have the capability of taking over Israel. They exceeded expectations on 10/7 and now are suffering the consequences for what they did.

Gylcomer said:
My Libertarian side is upset that our government has spent trillions trying to prevent this..to no avail. Sometimes one side has to win.
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I encourage that side of you to continue to take influence. Part of libertarianism is opposing our government's involvement in foreign wars for moral reasons. Our government is spending money now to enact the war. They aren't trying to prevent anything. Israel has already won. Gaza and the West Bank have no political power and have no military power. Personally if I am in Gaza or the West Bank I am studying for my tests so I can convince some other country to take me as an immigrant.
 
Horn6721 said:
So mircowaving didn't happen (I never saw that stupid story anyway)
but HOW does that change the horrors we do know Hamas did on babies women and elderly.
Weird attempt to cast doubt on fact by focusing on stupid links
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It doesn't, but let's be honest what happened either way.

Also, how does any of this change the horrors of what Israel is doing right now?
 
Horn6721 said:
Mona
Shouldn't Israel have gone after their own people being held prisoner?
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You mean to free them? Of course.

The weird issue is that the IDF killed multiple Israeli citizens who were being held hostage in their houses on purpose. I've read multiple stories from Israelis who barely survived.
 
Of course news from a Muslim perspective paints Israel in the worst possible light. I tried to find Israel or Western sources which describe the events. Bear in mind they are going out of their way to paint Israel in the best light. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I didn't include them but some of the Muslims sources say that the IDF killed up to 120 Israeli citizens on 10/7.

I couldn't find it but right after it happened I watched an interview of an Israeli woman who was taken hostage but then the IDF killed everyone in the house buy her.

Families of Israelis killed in Be'eri home hit by tank fire on October 7 demand probe



How 3 Israeli hostages tried to save themselves, only to be killed by their own military

https://www.timesofisrael.com/famil...tober-7-kibbutz-beeri-firefight-demand-probe/

New evidence that IDF shelled Israeli citizens on Oct. 7, killing over a hundred - Middle East Observer

IDF combat helicopter targeting Hamas fighters at Nova festival massacre shot some partygoers by mistake, says Haaretz

Friendly fire may have killed their relatives on Oct. 7. These Israeli families want answers now
 
Mona
Thanks for doing the research. I misunderstood your earlier post. I thought you meant IDF deliberately targeted and killed other Israelis. My stupid error.
 
Israel is literally in a no-win scenario right now.

Hamas hides hostages in densely populated civilian areas, knowing if the IDF mounts rescue operations (Nuseirat), there will be civilian casualties (which there were).

Netanyahu's hard liner coalition vows to vote him out if he does nothing, the families want their loved ones freed, from the Oct 7th attacks. Meanwhile ... the rest of the world reacts in horror when women and children die, while Hamas is pulling strings in the background.

It's all too easy to sympathize with just one side and not see the entire context of the last 70 years.
 
That's a tale as old as time for the side with less resources. Hide hostages among civilians to make it hard to rescue them. If Hamas truly cared about lowering civilian casualties, they would not hide hostages there and they'd not have any hostages to being with!
 
I wonder if anyone who thinks Israel should not rescue their own people would feel the same way if it were a loved one of theirs who had been taken hostage?
 
Horn6721 said:
I wonder if anyone who thinks Israel should not rescue their own people would feel the same way if it were a loved one of theirs who had been taken hostage?
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No one is saying Israel shouldn't rescue their hostages. They absolutely should. Does bombing whole neighborhoods and cutting off food aid to the area they are in rescue them or put them in harms way?
 
Horn6721 said:
WHO is responsible for innocent hostages being deeply embedded in neighborhoods.
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WHO cares?

If you are captured and brought into Gaza by Hamas. What do you want to see happen 1) Israel bombs the entire area you are in into rubble or 2) they use special forces and urban warfare techniques to find and extract you, or 3) a mixture of both?
 
Bayerithe said:
Israel is literally in a no-win scenario right now.

Hamas hides hostages in densely populated civilian areas, knowing if the IDF mounts rescue operations (Nuseirat), there will be civilian casualties (which there were).

Netanyahu's hard liner coalition vows to vote him out if he does nothing, the families want their loved ones freed, from the Oct 7th attacks. Meanwhile ... the rest of the world reacts in horror when women and children die, while Hamas is pulling strings in the background.

It's all too easy to sympathize with just one side and not see the entire context of the last 70 years.
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Israel can win. It just can't win the support of Islamic terror sympathisers, of which there are many among media and the international Left. And it's such crap. If the Allies of WWII approached warfare the way these morally depraved freaks think Israel should, Nazis and imperialists would still run Germany and Japan (and most of the world). Their civilians were more innocent than the Palestinians are, and we would have been wringing our hands about how many of them would die if we didn't let the bad guys win.
 
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