Israel = the Good Guys in the Middle East; their neighboring states are unsavory and un-trustworthy

[Mr. Deez]

Yep. Israel is in the right here.

All I know is if the world was listening to the Mona types during WWII we'd still be having to deal with Nazi and Japanese insurgents to this very day.

You're being too generous. More likely, Germany and Japan would be dealing with American insurgents by now.

 

[Garmel]

You're being too generous. More likely, Germany and Japan would be dealing with American insurgents by now.

Good point. With Mona in charge guess who develops the A-bomb first. It wouldn't be us.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Good points. I think the US military should protect US citizens and their property abroad.

Perhaps, but two points. First, that leaves a lot of holes for someone to still harm the US. Second, if you had your way, we'd be in no position to do this.

I was talking about political battles. Culture war stuff. Growth of government. Immigration.

That's fine, but it isn't a war.

For example I think the Christians of Nigeria are justified in fighting a war against Boko Haram.

But what if a Christian fighting Boko Haram screwed up and killed an innocent person? You'd bail on their cause.

It was fine to go after Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. IMO, the mistake was in attacking Afghanistan and Iraq as supposed supporters of them.

Applying your logic, all Bin Laden would have to do is make sure there was a woman or child nearby, and you wouldn't do anything to him.

 

[guy4321]

Running the US during WW2 sounds easier than running an HOA today thanks to social media.

 

[Monahorns]

Any proof this story is real? As I said you'll believe every Twitter story that's anti-Israel but you want absolute proof of anything that's against Hamas. I wonder why.

Any proof it isn't? It is at minimum Israel killing a guy walking down the road with no threatening behavior. Still really bad.

 

[Monahorns]

First, is there proof?

Second, assuming it's real, is this a reason not to wage war? Because if it is, there has never been a justifiable war in the history of humanity, including the American Revolution. Every war has f**k-ups and bad apples who do the wrong thing accidentally or intentionally. You deal with wrongdoers by punishing them according to law, but if you're willing to give up because of a screwup or even many screwups (and there will be when we're talking about operations involving thousands of millions of people), you'll never win a war.

Ah. Dang. I murdered that guy. Darn it.

More seriously unjustified killing has bene punished in the US military. There is no evidence that Israel is punishing soldiers who perform indiscriminate killing.

 

[Monahorns]

You're being too generous. More likely, Germany and Japan would be dealing with American insurgents by now.

 

[Monahorns]

Good point. With Mona in charge guess who develops the A-bomb first. It wouldn't be us.

From the history I have heard Germany was not even trying to develop an A bomb. They had a nuclear energy program. A few scientists mentioned that the technology could be weaponized, but there was no active program to do so.

 

[Monahorns]

Perhaps, but two points. First, that leaves a lot of holes for someone to still harm the US. Second, if you had your way, we'd be in no position to do this.

Assertions without any logical basis or even an attempt at explanation.

But what if a Christian fighting Boko Haram screwed up and killed an innocent person? You'd bail on their cause.

This is a characteristic that you have come up with on your own. I still think Israel can and should defend themselves from Hamas. I just think that not all Palestinians are guilty because I am not a collectivist. I also think the US should give Israel $0 to do it. There are many things Israel can do to go after Hamas without mass killing and property destruction. If there were actual mistakes that led to innocent death that isn't a deal breaker. I don't believe that is what is happening.

Applying your logic, all Bin Laden would have to do is make sure there was a woman or child nearby, and you wouldn't do anything to him.

There were women and children nearby Osama when he was killed. I haven't and won't criticize that action. It was justice.

 

[Monahorns]

Political discussion happening in ATX

 

[guy4321]

From the history I have heard Germany was not even trying to develop an A bomb. They had a nuclear energy program. A few scientists mentioned that the technology could be weaponized, but there was no active program to do so.

If Germany hadn't kicked out / scared out / locked up so many Jews, they would have had enough Germany physicists to do it!

 

[Chop]

If Germany hadn't kicked out / scared out / locked up so many Jews, they would have had enough Germany physicists to do it!

Yep. The Germans really shot themselves in the foot. Ideology trumped pragmatism and common sense for those jackasses.

Supposedly, Hitler was skeptical of nuclear weaponry and power (which he regarded as "Jewish science."). But, when it came to aeronautics, jet engines, and rockets, they were probably a decade ahead of everyone, including us. If left alone, Von Braun and his crew would have developed rockets that could hit our East Coast--and with big payloads. And their jet airplanes would have owned the skies. The Nazis had to be taken out, and within a set window of time, before they could develop technology (and mass produce it) that could win the war for them.

 

[Horn6721]

Mona :"From the history I have heard Germany was not even trying to develop an A bomb.
You hear some strange History.
I bet you think this is Fake
Einstein Feared a Nazi Atom Bomb—But Immigrants Made Sure the U.S. Got There First

 

[Chop]

To bring a Biblical perspective to this fight: According to this map, Israel would cede Gaza, and even Ashkelon and Ashdod to the Philistines, but would gain much of what is now Jordan, Lebanon, and even a bit of Syria. So, Israel loses Gaza and a bit more up the coast, but gains the entire West Bank + much of Jordan, Southern Lebanon, and a tad of Syria. A lot more net land for Israel. Not a bad trade...

Now if only those stupid Hittites and Arameans would stop launching rockets from up North...

 

[Chop]

Hittites

Arameans -- Woah! The Arameans still exist!!! (for real/no joke...)
And apparently, they dress like boy scouts.
Arameans in Israel and Palestine - Wikipedia
(apparently, they're a type of "Syriac Christian". Who would have known; well, may the good Lord bless them along with the Jews)

...still have to watch out for those treacherous Moabites and Ammonites though...

 

[Creek]

Political discussion happening in ATX

Monahorns: This is informative and a bit eye opening.

 

[Monahorns]

Yep. The Germans really shot themselves in the foot. Ideology trumped pragmatism and common sense for those jackasses.

Supposedly, Hitler was skeptical of nuclear weaponry and power (which he regarded as "Jewish science."). But, when it came to aeronautics, jet engines, and rockets, they were probably a decade ahead of everyone, including us. If left alone, Von Braun and his crew would have developed rockets that could hit our East Coast--and with big payloads. And their jet airplanes would have owned the skies. The Nazis had to be taken out, and within a set window of time, before they could develop technology (and mass produce it) that could win the war for them.

I don't think Germany was interested in attacking the US. Why anyone would think they could cross and an ocean and threaten a country way bigger, more populous, and way more wealthy is mystery to me.

Germany wanted to control Eurasia. They were going to fight the USSR to the death over it. It would have severely weakened them even if they won.

 

[Monahorns]

Mona :"From the history I have heard Germany was not even trying to develop an A bomb.
You hear some strange History.
I bet you think this is Fake
Einstein Feared a Nazi Atom Bomb—But Immigrants Made Sure the U.S. Got There First

Yeah. It isn't correct.

 

[guy4321]

I guess this goes here. You can't make it up. People offended by Israel want Jewish symbols removed in the US.

"Meanwhile, a Star of David was removed from a holiday light display in Westbrook, Maine, and replaced with a dreidel, which is played during Hanukkah."

Uhhhhhh

Hanukkah celebration canceled as Jewish symbols removed in towns

 

[Horn6721]

Mona
You are saying the Time article reporting that Einstein signed a letter to FDR explaining Germany might be developing an atom bomb is wrong??
That Einstein never signed a letter to FDR in 1939?

 

[erbutch]

Mono-Your posts are loaded with assumptions and not historically accurate.

 

[erbutch]

Creek-I would be careful about believing everything Scott Horton says. Do more research on him and his libertarian. views.

 

[Monahorns]

Mona
You are saying the Time article reporting that Einstein signed a letter to FDR explaining Germany might be developing an atom bomb is wrong??
That Einstein never signed a letter to FDR in 1939?

I'm saying I don't care what Einstein wrote. I have read articles going into the internal Nazi documents. They weren't developing nuclear weapons. Some in the US thought they might have been but they weren't correct.

 

[erbutch]

Moma-Post #954 is strictly opinion and not historical fact.

 

[Monahorns]

Creek-I would be careful about believing everything Scott Horton says. Do more research on him and his libertarian. views.

He is a human encyclopedia remembering whole articles from decades ago. He recalls them in mid-interview. His expertise is very impressive. He can be wrong like any human but he bases his opinions on mountains and mountains of data.

 

[Monahorns]

Moma-Post #954 is strictly opinion and not historical fact.

So internal Nazi documents are opinion? But a letter Einstein wrote while living in the US about what the Nazis MIGHT have been doing is more factual? None of that makes sense.

 

[mchammer]

 

[erbutch]

Mona-It is amazing what one word can do to a sentence. Such as MIGHT.

 

[Chop]

Germany's desperate pursuit of Norwegian heavy water production, and the Allies' commando raids to sabotage it, leads one to think the Germans wanted the heavy water for something more than just routine nuclear power.

 

[Mr. Deez]

Ah. Dang. I murdered that guy. Darn it.

More seriously unjustified killing has bene punished in the US military. There is no evidence that Israel is punishing soldiers who perform indiscriminate killing.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. They have a military justice system like the US does, and they do punish misconduct. If you need an example, here's one.

Assertions without any logical basis or even an attempt at explanation.

Do you really need an explanation? Suppose Americans invest in an overseas oil company and some ******* in charge of an American enemy regime like Iran attacks oil tankers in the region. We're not talking about American lives or property, but it sure as hell hurts the United States and its people.

This is a characteristic that you have come up with on your own. I still think Israel can and should defend themselves from Hamas. I just think that not all Palestinians are guilty because I am not a collectivist. I also think the US should give Israel $0 to do it. There are many things Israel can do to go after Hamas without mass killing and property destruction. If there were actual mistakes that led to innocent death that isn't a deal breaker. I don't believe that is what is happening.

This is such a ********* narrative. Nobody here believes in collective guilt of anybody. Israel doesn't either. You know how I know? Because they could have completely eliminated the Gazan population in about 2 days if they wanted to. The fact that they haven't and the fact that they warn areas before striking them should tell you something. There isn't "mass killing" or "genocide" going on, and to the extent that there is, Israel is trying to avoid it while destroying the people who attacked them and their capabilities.

There were women and children nearby Osama when he was killed. I haven't and won't criticize that action. It was justice.

So you're just hypocritical. Ok.