Impeachment

Mr. Deez said:
I voted Libertarian. And of course, that presents its own set of problems. However, I could at least claim to be voting for fiscal conservatism. Trump had nothing to offer me. He was a disorganized mess on foreign policy, and he broke with the GOP's longstanding support for entitlement reform and generally advocated spending like a drunken sailor. On foreign policy, he has done better than I expected, because he has mostly let others take the lead. However, on fiscal policy, he has pretty much been the disaster that he claimed to be. - probably the most fiscally irresponsible president since LBJ.
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No, he has a way to go to catch his immediate predecessor.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Really? Where's the evidence of that? I'd love to have Obama's spending policies right now.
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Huh? His first few years were worse than Trump's first few years and that doesn't include the excessive quantitative easing. Obama doubled the national debt just as Bush did. A worse economy doesn't excuse Obama's spending either.
 
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Just heard on libtard radio that the goal was to not only impeach Trump, but also Pence as he also has been negotiating with Ukrainian officials. Then, you guessed it, Pelosi becomes President! This was coming from a California congressman.
 
I don't think anyone believes that impeachment will actually happen. Unless, Trump becomes an albatross that the GOP Senate doesn't want around their neck. I think Nixon was very safe until he lost the Southern Dem's.

I'm old enough to remember when we were pissy about a brown suit, a sleeveless first lady, and efforts to curb childhood obesity.
 
OUBubba said:
I don't think anyone believes that impeachment will actually happen. Unless, Trump becomes an albatross that the GOP Senate doesn't want around their neck. I think Nixon was very safe until he lost the Southern Dem's.

I'm old enough to remember when we were pissy about a brown suit, a sleeveless first lady, and efforts to curb childhood obesity.
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Trump was elected to ruffle feathers. It’s a feature, not a bug. Biden’s son receiving $50k per month is all the reason one needs to support Trump’s approach. It’s been 3 fracking years and you still don’t get it?
 
Obama's spending policies? Are you giving him credit for the Ted Cruz lead sequestration? That reduced the rate of spending, but that was the only reason that happened. It happened in spite of Obama.
 
Sangre Naranjada said:
And how has our wonderful federal government succeeded in that quest?
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I don't know. We all know it's a problem. She tried to do something about it and got roasted for it. I will say it was not as ironic as Melania's "Be Best" anti-bullying campaign as her husband bullied his way through his day to day living.
 
The point is, Bubba, not to contrast one POTUS to another (at least not in this instance). The point is to get people to recognize that there are many, many areas in which the federal government gets involved when it really has no business doing so. It's an incredibly expensive tool to use and is incredibly inefficient to boot. We should all question the need for federal involvement every time some pet project or another comes up.
 
Garmel said:
Huh? His first few years were worse than Trump's first few years and that doesn't include the excessive quantitative easing. Obama doubled the national debt just as Bush did. A worse economy doesn't excuse Obama's spending either.
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It doesn't excuse it, but having a roaring economy as Trump does makes it far less defensible.
 
Monahorns said:
Obama's spending policies? Are you giving him credit for the Ted Cruz lead sequestration? That reduced the rate of spending, but that was the only reason that happened. It happened in spite of Obama.
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His spending policies were crap, but they were better than our current spending policies.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Really? Where's the evidence of that? I'd love to have Obama's spending policies right now.
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Okay there’s a difference in spending. Trump spent money that actually stimulates the economy. Obama spent money on things like Solyndra. He spent $6 million for the study of black birds. How the hell does that create jobs?
 
I35 said:
Okay there’s a difference in spending. Trump spent money that actually stimulates the economy. Obama spent money on things like Solyndra. He spent $6 million for the study of black birds. How the hell does that create jobs?
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Didn't Obama "create" jobs by literally creating more Federal agencies and thus jobs? Or something to that effect. Just made the gubment bigger? Nothing like what you are talking about what Trump's magic wand has done.
 
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I35 said:
Self created can be said about any of our past President. Not defending your self against the media are self created on bowing to the critics. Obama had an open mic talking about his flexibility after the election with one of Putin’s guys. The difference is what the media does with info after that. The small things are made huge when it’s trump but doesn’t say anything when it’s a dem. It’s a perception thing they do. Then people (many here) like feeds into it when it’s about Trump. It’s like they can’t think for themselves and allows the media to influence their thoughts on each report. They just need to open their eyes. But they already hate Trump and are wanting to believe things. No hope for people when they are at that point.

Basically when Trump stands up for himself against the media no matter how politically incorrect it is, it’s better than allowing the media to dictate a President’s decisions by worrying how it comes across politically. Instead it makes people and media throw temper tantrums and stomp their feet like they are little kids. Those actions are their own doing. Trump wins every time because everyone was tired of the direction we were going.
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Damn, this **** gets old. If Trump does or says something damaging to himself, you all just redirect to the media or Obama. Who cares? This isn't about them, and focusing on them blinds you. It's about Trump. The media and Obama didn't force him to say what he says about Putin and Kim Jong Un. He did that himself. Nobody forced him to spout off and talk about shutting down the Mueller investigation. He did that himself. You ***** about the investigations, but he brings that on himself.
 
I35 said:
Okay there’s a difference in spending. Trump spent money that actually stimulates the economy. Obama spent money on things like Solyndra. He spent $6 million for the study of black birds. How the hell does that create jobs?
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horninchicago said:
Didn't Obama "create" jobs by literally cramming more Federal agencies and thus jobs? Or something to that effect. Just made the gubment bigger? Nothing like what you are talking about what Trump's magic wand has done.
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That stuff is chump change. 98 percent of what Obama spent money on, Trump spends money on. Their spending priorities are similar. Trump just spends more.
 
Mr. Deez said:
That stuff is chump change. 98 percent of what Obama spent money on, Trump spends money on. Their spending priorities are similar. Trump just spends more.
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I’m not sure how you can say that with a straight face. Give me examples that Trump approved spending similar to the study of black birds. That was just one example. Obama didn’t spend anything to stimulate the economy. Do you know just how much we will save on welfare for illegals by preventing them from coming in at an alarming rate per year. Once the wall is built it pays for itself fairly fast. Obama’s website alone will cost more than all of the wall being built. And we really didn’t get anything out of Obamacare but a mess.

With all that spending Obama did it was not in the Military. He had out military depleted. Trump had to spend on our defense to get it back to where we’re are suppose to be. On top of that Trump has kept us from going to any new wars which saves us a ton due to war being so expensive. Amazing how much more the word respect us now than they did Obama.
 
Garmel said:
Check out 2009-2012. This is way higher than what Trump has done. Bigly. Is the U.S. Budget Deficit Really That Bad?
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Context matters. For example, in 1943, our budget deficit was 29.6 percent of GDP. The 2009 deficit (which was our worst) was 9.8 percent. Why don't we freak out about that horrible 1943 deficit? Two reasons. First, there was a reason for it. Second, it was temporary.

Likewise, there was a reason from 2009 - 2012. The economy had tanked. For some perspective, between 2008 and 2009, annual revenue dropped by $400B in one year. That is massive - unlike anything we've seen since the 1930s. And of course, while that was happening, claims for government services (such as unemployment compensation, food stamps, housing assistance, etc.) skyrocketed. The point is that there was a reason for the large deficits, and sure enough, when the economy rebounded, the deficits dropped. By 2015, it was $441B. Too high? Most definitely but far more manageable. We're now getting back to the $1T range. What the hell is our excuse now?
 
I35 said:
I’m not sure how you can say that with a straight face. Give me examples that Trump approved spending similar to the study of black birds. That was just one example. Obama didn’t spend anything to stimulate the economy. Do you know just how much we will save on welfare for illegals by preventing them from coming in at an alarming rate per year. Once the wall is built it pays for itself fairly fast. Obama’s website alone will cost more than all of the wall being built. And we really didn’t get anything out of Obamacare but a mess.

With all that spending Obama did it was not in the Military. He had out military depleted. Trump had to spend on our defense to get it back to where we’re are suppose to be. On top of that Trump has kept us from going to any new wars which saves us a ton due to war being so expensive. Amazing how much more the word respect us now than they did Obama.
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A $6 million study? If we combed through the budget, we'd find all kinds of things like that. Obama didn't invent that kind of spending program. Stuff like that has been in the budget for a century, and it still is. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and national defense - that's where we spend serious money. It's about 460,000 times more than we spent on the bird study, so I care about it about 1/460,000 as much as I care about those other items.

Since 2016, we've added about $300B of annual spending. $38B was for national defense. That isn't what's driving the explosion in the deficit. We're simply hemorrhaging money across the board, because nobody gives a crap, and there's no leadership from the top on the issue.
 
Mr. Deez said:
A $6 million study? If we combed through the budget, we'd find all kinds of things like that. Obama didn't invent that kind of spending program. Stuff like that has been in the budget for a century, and it still is. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and national defense - that's where we spend serious money. It's about 460,000 times more than we spent on the bird study, so I care about it about 1/460,000 as much as I care about those other items.

Since 2016, we've added about $300B of annual spending. $38B was for national defense. That isn't what's driving the explosion in the deficit. We're simply hemorrhaging money across the board, because nobody gives a crap, and there's no leadership from the top on the issue.
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I agree with what you finished with. Our spending has been out of control. But if you are spending it better help the GDP which it has under Trump. Obama had the debt doubled compared to our entire history of America and never got the GDP over 3% in a year. He said the new normal is 1.5%.
 
Mr. Deez said:
A $6 million study? If we combed through the budget, we'd find all kinds of things like that. Obama didn't invent that kind of spending program. Stuff like that has been in the budget for a century, and it still is. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and national defense - that's where we spend serious money. It's about 460,000 times more than we spent on the bird study, so I care about it about 1/460,000 as much as I care about those other items.

Since 2016, we've added about $300B of annual spending. $38B was for national defense. That isn't what's driving the explosion in the deficit. We're simply hemorrhaging money across the board, because nobody gives a crap, and there's no leadership from the top on the issue.
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Check out my link above. Military spending has seen a lot more than a 38 Billion increase.
 
I35 said:
I agree with what you finished with. Our spending has been out of control. But if you are spending it better help the GDP which it has under Trump. Obama had the debt doubled compared to our entire history of America and never got the GDP over 3% in a year. He said the new normal is 1.5%.
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The spending is causing the growth? Sounds a lot like something John Maynard Keynes, John Kenneth Galbraith, or Paul Krugman would say. But that's fine. Let's tell Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman, and every other conservative economist we used to deem as authoritative to go to hell and embrace the economists that FDR, LBJ, and the Democratic Party have eulogized for 90 years as you have. (The fact that you have to do that to defend Trump's fiscal policy should be a red flag, but I don't expect better.) Even doing that, your point is still very weak.

If you simply look at the numbers, Trump's spending priorities and Obama's spending priorities are virtually the same. There has not been a major shift in any direction.

If you want to point to military spending and say that made some big impact on the economy, in 2018, we spent 3.1 percent of GDP on national defense. In 2016, we spent 3.2 percent. In terms of percentages of total spending, it's 15.4 percent for both years. Not a big change and definitely not enough to add 1.5 percent to our economic growth or even make a dent in that direction.

The growth is coming because of the tax relief and the deregulation. Pretty easy to see that. They massively dwarf any increase in military spending.

But even if we accept your nonsensical assertion that our spending priorities are making a big difference (which, by the way, embraces the Left's assertion that the economic growth is just a "sugar rush" rather than wiser economic policy), how the hell long can we can we keep this up? Can we really borrow massive amounts of money every year forever? I don't see how. I guess we can monetize all our debt and just print money to pay it off - basically legalized counterfeiting.
 
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The whistle blower appears to be a member of REO Speedwagon who apparently heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard it from another you been messin' around
 
The Whistleblower Law was changed days before this complaint was filed to allow hearsay evidence. Before the change, direct knowledge of the alleged incident was required.

I’ve also heard from long-time intelligence officials (guests on radio programs) that the complaint reads like it was written by high-powered legal people, not by a lone intelligence officer.

Deep state planned ambush?

BREAKING: Intel Community Secretly Changed the Whistle-Blower Rules to Allow the Trump-Ukraine Complaint Just Days Before It Was Filed
 
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