Impeachment

[OUBubba]

My understanding of the grand jury process is that the prosecutor presents evidence to the jury with no judge present. Witnesses may or may not be present. The grand jury can compel a witness to testify but the "defendant" has no right to be present or to put on witnesses. They determine if enough evidence exists to indict.

In this case Schiff is acting as the prosecutor and the committees/House are acting as the grand jury.

How is this wrong?

 

[Joe Fan]

The House.

Be hard to fit them all in Schiff's SCIF. Not much room down there in the basement. In fact, when some other members of the House tried to join them down there, Schiff threw a hissy fit. The reality is that Schiff has denied the vast majority of the House to hear from the various witnesses. Ask yourself, without drawing another bad analogy, why Schiff is doing everything in secret? Why is Schiff doing it this way when he doesnt have to?

Trump could steal from Veteran's charities, be fined millions and then days later lead the Veteran's parade. He could grab someone by the *****. He could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not be impeached in the Senate

If you believe that, then there is not point to any of this, except for what I mentioned above.
What this is about is damaging Trump -- trying to slow him down. Maybe they think it will help their eventual candidate, I dont know. But they definitely see Trump as a transformative president. They are afraid of him and the changes he is making. In this sense, the Dems have a healthier respect for Trump than some of the Reps do (including some here). And the Dems are right. Trump is threatening the world order, the one that has been in existence since WWII - of trade, capital markets and security. The one that says the US keeps the peace around the world and the US taxpayer pays for it. The one where only the children of Americans are put in harms way. I dont blame those other countries and the globalists for opposing Trump's America First theme - they have had a sweet deal for a long time.

Two words: Ken Starr.

Wow, so now you not only think Schiff should and did lawfully appoint himself grand jury, prosecutor and judge, but appointed himself Special Prosecutor as well? You are sort of a walking display of the famous ou education. Do they know you are loose and out in the world representing them?

I did not cheer, boo or hiss at this action.

You cheered Stormy Daniels, Michael Cohen, antifa, Christine Blasey Ford, Mueller, Comey, "the Emoluments Clause," the pee-pee bed and Barry Switzer.

 

[Joe Fan]

Jade Helm!!!!

History is replete with real life examples -- why do you think history would be any different this time? (bonus - this list should keep the fanbois happily occupied for awhile)

Albania
Angola
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Benin
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Cambodia
China
Croatia
Cuba
Czech Republic
Dem Rep. of Congo
East Germany
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Latvia
Lithuania
Moldova
Montenegro
Mozambique
North Korea
Poland
Rep. of Macedonia
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Somalia
South Vietnam
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan

 

[Seattle Husker]

Like this one?

Context is important. Rep. Ratcliffe was specifically asking if anyone in the Ukrainian government was aware of the hold put on the aid during the July 25th call. That's his answer to that question. Taylor stated that as of Aug 29th the Ukrainian government was aware of the aid being dependent on the investigations. This coincides with Ambassador Sondland's statement that told Yermank on 9/1 that aid would "very likely" be dependent on the public pronouncement of the investigations.

Here is a direct link to Taylor's transcripts. Rep. Ratcliffe's questions start on page 118.

 

[OUBubba]

Be hard to fit them all in Schiff's SCIF. Not much room down there in the basement. In fact, when some other members of the House tried to join them down there, Schiff threw a hissy fit. The reality is that Schiff has denied the vast majority of the House to hear from the various witnesses. Ask yourself, without drawing another bad analogy, why Schiff is doing everything in secret? Why is Schiff doing it this way when he doesnt have to?


If you believe that, then there is not point to any of this, except for what I mentioned above.
What this is about is damaging Trump -- trying to slow him down. Maybe they think it will help their eventual candidate, I dont know. But they definitely see Trump as a transformative president. They are afraid of him and the changes he is making. In this sense, the Dems have a healthier respect for Trump than some of the Reps do (including some here). And the Dems are right. Trump is threatening the world order, the one that has been in existence since WWII - of trade, capital markets and security. The one that says the US keeps the peace around the world and the US taxpayer pays for it. The one where only the children of Americans are put in harms way. I dont blame those other countries and the globalists for opposing Trump's America First theme - they have had a sweet deal for a long time.


Wow, so now you not only think Schiff should and did lawfully appoint himself grand jury, prosecutor and judge, but appointed himself Special Prosecutor as well? You are sort of a walking display of the famous ou education. Do they know you are loose and out in the world representing them?


You cheered Stormy Daniels, Michael Cohen, antifa, Christine Blasey Ford, Mueller, Comey, "the Emoluments Clause," the pee-pee bed and Barry Switzer.

Why are you so this way? I'm not 100% sure I'm right but doing interviews in a SCIF for committees that 25% of the protesters belonged to was not inappropriate. You know why you do those things? So that people like Ambassador Sondland doesn't hear other witness testimonies and doesn't have the opportunity to come in an amend their testimony after they realized that they lied under oath. Apparently that's an impeachable offense. He already committed it. Had they kept things confidential he would not have known about his perjury.

 

[OUBubba]

Context is important. Rep. Ratcliffe was specifically asking if anyone in the Ukrainian government was aware of the hold put on the aid during the July 25th call. That's his answer to that question. Taylor stated that as of Aug 29th the Ukrainian government was aware of the aid being dependent on the investigations. This coincides with Ambassador Sondland's statement that told Yermank on 9/1 that aid would "very likely" be dependent on the public pronouncement of the investigations.

Here is a direct link to Taylor's transcripts. Rep. Ratcliffe's questions start on page 118.

They knew. Mr. Fraud Guarantee delivered the message for Rudy. A ham handed cut-out. Giuliani associate flips on Trump, says he threatened Ukraine over aid

This guy is indicted for funneling foreign funds into campaign PAC's. Good thing Trump is so outwardly against corruption!

 

[Joe Fan]

Why are you so this way? I'm not 100% sure I'm right but doing interviews in a SCIF for committees that 25% of the protesters belonged to was not inappropriate. ....

Answer: physical limitations/physics
There is literally not enough room in the SCIF to fit that many people
It's a small, enclosed safe room, supposedly impossible to hack or tap

 

[Joe Fan]

good effort

 

[Joe Fan]

 

[Seattle Husker]

It's a bit amazing to claim the Whistleblower's information was meaningless because it was 2nd/3rd hand ~60 days ago to this person now being an important witness. Beware those with expert yo-yo skills.

 

[OUBubba]

Answer: physical limitations/physics
There is literally not enough room in the SCIF to fit that many people
It's a small, enclosed safe room, supposedly impossible to hack or tap

It was for depositions, correct? All of the relevant committee members had room to attend, correct?

 

[horninchicago]

It's a bit amazing to claim the Whistleblower's information was meaningless because it was 2nd/3rd hand ~60 days ago to this person now being an important witness. Beware those with expert yo-yo skills.

Isn't the point that if the Republicans are allowed to question it will discredit him and show him to be a hack? He is only important to show this to be yet again another BS investigation. But, I'm sure you know that.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Isn't the point that if the Republicans are allowed to question it will discredit him and show him to be a hack? He is only important to show this to be yet again another BS investigation. But, I'm sure you know that.

Thank you for admitting the only intention of calling this person is to debase the person, not their claims. As I posted earlier, the complaint has been largely corroborated.

 

[horninchicago]

Thank you for admitting the only intention of calling this person is to debase the person, not their claims. As I posted earlier, the complaint has been largely corroborated.

You're welcome. Thanks for thinking Shifty and the Wicked Witch are running legit "investigation".

 

[Seattle Husker]

You're welcome. Thanks for thinking Shifty and the Wicked switch are running legit "investigation".

Impeachment was purposely laid out as a political process in the Constitution. I'll sit back and listen to what the witnesses have to say, especially starting tomorrow.

 

[Joe Fan]

It was for depositions, correct? All of the relevant committee members had room to attend, correct?

The answer(s) is/are the same
(1) No, there is not room for the full house inside the SCIF, and
(2) No, relevant committee members who tried to attend were not allowed entry per Schiff

 

[Joe Fan]

Another good summary
Using less words than I did

 

[OUBubba]

Isn't the point that if the Republicans are allowed to question it will discredit him and show him to be a hack? He is only important to show this to be yet again another BS investigation. But, I'm sure you know that.

But...everything that has come out since the whistleblower has come forward has validated what he said. Even the "perfect" "transcript". (it's not really a transcript).

 

[OUBubba]

The answer(s) is/are the same
(1) No, there is not room for the full house inside the SCIF, and
(2) No, relevant committee members who tried to attend were not allowed entry per Schiff

So you're saying that the full Intelligence Committee did not have room to meet in the SCIF? That's the first that I've read about that. My understanding of the facts are that people like Meadows, Gym Jordan, etc. who sat on the relevant committees were present (except when they were pretending that they were being kept out and sitting with their phones and their pizza in the SCIF). The Matt Gaetz's and MarkWayne's of the world who were not members of the committees were not allowed in. Surely one of these two facts sets are verifiable.

 

[horninchicago]

But...everything that has come out since the whistleblower has come forward has validated what he said. Even the "perfect" "transcript". (it's not really a transcript).

You okies are pretty funny.

 

[OUBubba]

You okies are pretty funny.

What has been disproven? Will Rogers was quite the humorist.

 

[Horn6721]

According to a The Hill April 2019 report Eric the the whistleblower held a Jan 192016 meeting at the WhiteHouse with obama officials and Ukrainian officials.
The Ukrainian official Telizhenko said the US officials asked Ukraine to drop their investigation of Burisma and let the FBI take over. The Ukrainian officials did not agree .
We know what Papa Biden did next

I will try to find the link

 

[mchammer]

Context is important. Rep. Ratcliffe was specifically asking if anyone in the Ukrainian government was aware of the hold put on the aid during the July 25th call. That's his answer to that question. Taylor stated that as of Aug 29th the Ukrainian government was aware of the aid being dependent on the investigations. This coincides with Ambassador Sondland's statement that told Yermank on 9/1 that aid would "very likely" be dependent on the public pronouncement of the investigations.

Here is a direct link to Taylor's transcripts. Rep. Ratcliffe's questions start on page 118.

None of these people knew what was going on.

 

[Garmel]

As I posted earlier, the complaint has been largely corroborated.

Then the whistle blower has nothing to worry about then. The reason why you don't want to see the whistleblower take the stand is that deep down you suspect what we conservatives suspect but you won't admit to it.

 

[Joe Fan]

So you're saying that the full Intelligence Committee did not have room to meet in the SCIF? That's the first that I've read about that. My understanding of the facts are that people like Meadows, Gym Jordan, etc. who sat on the relevant committees were present (except when they were pretending that they were being kept out and sitting with their phones and their pizza in the SCIF). The Matt Gaetz's and MarkWayne's of the world who were not members of the committees were not allowed in. Surely one of these two facts sets are verifiable.

(1) What you are calling "facts" are not really facts but rather opinions you have formed. The inability to distinguish between the two is one of the key challenges of trying to have a reasonable discussion with any Democrat, not just you;
(2) Yes, Schiff refused members of the House from participating in his secret basement hearings, including members of relevant committees. I previously posted one of the transcripts showing this above - this is not something that is in dispute. Why do you suppose he did that?

 

[Joe Fan]

...If Schiff is not aimed at laying out the facts for the House, the Senate and the American people, then what is he doing? He already knows he will not win in the Senate. Instead, he is aiming at damaging Trump politically as much as possible. Seen correctly for what it is, this is a political trial produced for political purposes. ...

...Trump could steal from Veteran's charities, be fined millions and then days later lead the Veteran's parade. He could grab someone by the *****. He could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not be impeached in the Senate.....

And here he even admits as much. I think he knows he's got problems with his Star Chamber routine

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) told NPR that the impeachment inquiry would be worth it regardless of whether President Trump is successfully removed from office.​

Schiff says impeachment worth it even if Trump is not removed

 

[Joe Fan]

Schiff changed his mind on Morrison - I guess Nancy told him "good try, but there is no way you will get away with it"
And I think Fiona Hill is the one who openly cried when it became official Hillary lost

 

[Seattle Husker]

None of these people knew what was going on.

Who are "these people"? They are all 1st hand witnesses to meetings with Ukraine, efforts to pressure Ukraine and goals of the pressure.

 

[Seattle Husker]

Then the whistle blower has nothing to worry about then. The reason why you don't want to see the whistleblower take the stand is that deep down you suspect what we conservatives suspect but you won't admit to it.

What won't I admit?

 

[OUBubba]

(1) What you are calling "facts" are not really facts but rather opinions you have formed. The inability to distinguish between the two is one of the key challenges of trying to have a reasonable discussion with any Democrat, not just you;
(2) Yes, Schiff refused members of the House from participating in his secret basement hearings, including members of relevant committees. I previously posted one of the transcripts showing this above - this is not something that is in dispute. Why do you suppose he did that?

I will wait for a link indicating that Schiff barred members of his committee from the meetings.