'I Feel Duped on Climate Change'

UTChE96 said:
Thanks for that. They did not mention the theory in the paper. In any case, they made interesting points. I'm sure the Climate change folks will give it due consideration.
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It might have been excluded in order to get the paper published. Disproving the climate models is the first step since they have many problems. The cosmic ray theory is just one natural means of temperature variability. There are likely others that the models don’t consider.
 
Mr. Deez said:
So if you tell people the world is coming to an end and claim to have "settled science" behind your claim, some of those people (at least the stupid ones who don't think to be skeptical) become depressed and even suicidal. Link Of course, as the article concedes, the science doesn't back up the conclusions of these mentally weak dolts, but if you pump BS into people enough times, eventually they believe it.

The delusion is pretty evident in the highlighted quote. "It's super painful to be a human being right now at this point in history."

How friggin' self-centered and ignorant of history does someone have to be to believe this? How about living in a time when, if you needed surgery, you were given some lettuce and told to bite on a stick instead of being anesthetized? I think that was a more painful time. How about living before antibiotics or vaccines when a contagious disease could just wipe out millions of people in a few years and there was nothing anybody could do about it? Sounds pretty painful.

And we don't have to go that far back. I'll bet it was pretty painful to be a Polish Jew in the early '40s. I'll bet being an Ethiopian in the 1980s was no picnic either.

I know urban hipsters have it pretty bad. I'm not here to crap on their struggle. It's real and painful. Their iPhone screens get cracked; their avocado toast gets soggy; they see opinions on Twitter that they disagree with; and sometimes they can't get Kombucha when they need it. Having to deal with all that AND having to worry about climate change has to be pretty rough. But I think past generations and oppressed peoples of the past would probably reluctantly trade places with them.
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AWESOME SAUCE!
 
From the cheap seats:

1) Climate change - wealth redistribution and a gold-mine for virtue signaling rhetoric
2) Reparations
3) Forgiveness of student loan debt
4) Open borders - benefits and voting rights in California increasing the population for a census thus gaining more electoral college votes
5) Socialism in general as a catch-all

This is the platform I see from the Left; fueled by "big-hearted" candidates such as Mr. O'Rourke and anger by AOC, Kamala etc. Climate change is the end-game to exploit.
 
bystander said:
From the cheap seats:

1) Climate change - wealth redistribution and a gold-mine for virtue signaling rhetoric
2) Reparations
3) Forgiveness of student loan debt
4) Open borders - benefits and voting rights in California increasing the population for a census thus gaining more electoral college votes
5) Socialism in general as a catch-all

This is the platform I see from the Left; fueled by "big-hearted" candidates such as Mr. O'Rourke and anger by AOC, Kamala etc. Climate change is the end-game to exploit.
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Add $1,000 for every citizen, $100 billion for housing black folks, and harnessing love.
 
Statalyzer said:
Is it just me, or is that a really big and obvious thing to overlook?
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Unless higher CO2 causes more warming which causes more convection and cloud formation. Even in that scenario, the impact of CO2 is self-limiting (dampening effect) and which the models do not accurately model.
 
The models have never even been verified. Several climate scientists have tried to publish papers analyzing the error of them, but no journal will do it. The models have propagating error issues that no one will talk about much less attempt to correct.
 
I think the sun's variability is 85% of climate variance. The mini Ice Age is my "proof". That said, I think we need to keep the earth "healthy" to be able to adapt is the Good Lord designed it.

While I'm not necessarily a fan of paying off student debt it's no more socialist than the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy that took place and exploded the deficit that you guys hold so dear during Democratic presidential terms.
 
OUBubba said:
I think the sun's variability is 85% of climate variance. The mini Ice Age is my "proof". That said, I think we need to keep the earth "healthy" to be able to adapt is the Good Lord designed it.

While I'm not necessarily a fan of paying off student debt it's no more socialist than the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy that took place and exploded the deficit that you guys hold so dear during Democratic presidential terms.
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Revenue went up even after the tax cuts. The issue is on the spending side, which I blame both parties.
 
mchammer said:
Revenue went up even after the tax cuts. The issue is on the spending side, which I blame both parties.
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Revenue goes up as a factor of a larger economy. A recession is just about the only thing to impact tax revenue growth. As you stated, the spending is out of control and that's a bi-partisan problem. It's ludicrous that we'll have a record $1T deficit this year with the economy as strong as it is.

Federal Tax revenue by fiscal year. As an aside, 86% of this revenue is through income and payroll taxes. Corporations have dropped to a modern day low of 7% of the tax revenue pie.
  • FY 2020 - $3.64 trillion, budgeted.
  • FY 2019 - $3.44 trillion, estimated.
  • FY 2018 - $3.33 trillion.
  • FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.
  • FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
  • FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
  • FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
  • FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.
  • FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.
  • FY 2011 - $2.30 trillion.
  • FY 2010 - $2.16 trillion.
  • FY 2009 - $2.10 trillion.
  • FY 2008 - $2.52 trillion.
  • FY 2007 - $2.57 trillion.
  • FY 2006 - $2.4 trillion.
  • FY 2005 - $2.15 trillion.
  • FY 2004 - $1.88 trillion.
  • FY 2003 - $1.72 trillion.
  • FY 2002 - $1.85 trillion.
  • FY 2001 - $1.99 trillion.
  • FY 2000 - $2.03 trillion.
  • FY 1999 - $1.82 trillion.
  • FY 1998 - $1.72 trillion.
  • FY 1997 - $1.58 trillion.
  • FY 1996 - $1.45 trillion.
  • FY 1995 - $1.35 trillion.
  • FY 1994 - $1.26 trillion.
  • FY 1993 - $1.15 trillion.
  • FY 1992 - $1.09 trillion.
  • FY 1991 - $1.05 trillion.
  • FY 1990 - $1.03 trillion.
  • FY 1989 - $991 billion.
  • FY 1988 - $909 billion.
  • FY 1987 - $854 billion.
  • FY 1986 - $769 billion.
  • FY 1985 - $734 billion.
  • FY 1984 - $666 billion.
  • FY 1983 - $601 billion.
  • FY 1982 - $618 billion.
  • FY 1981 - $599 billion.
  • FY 1980 - $517 billion.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Revenue goes up as a factor of a larger economy. A recession is just about the only thing to impact tax revenue growth. As you stated, the spending is out of control and that's a bi-partisan problem. It's ludicrous that we'll have a record $1T deficit this year with the economy as strong as it is.

Federal Tax revenue by fiscal year. As an aside, 86% of this revenue is through income and payroll taxes. Corporations have dropped to a modern day low of 7% of the tax revenue pie.
  • FY 2020 - $3.64 trillion, budgeted.
  • FY 2019 - $3.44 trillion, estimated.
  • FY 2018 - $3.33 trillion.
  • FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.
  • FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
  • FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
  • FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
  • FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.
  • FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.
  • FY 2011 - $2.30 trillion.
  • FY 2010 - $2.16 trillion.
  • FY 2009 - $2.10 trillion.
  • FY 2008 - $2.52 trillion.
  • FY 2007 - $2.57 trillion.
  • FY 2006 - $2.4 trillion.
  • FY 2005 - $2.15 trillion.
  • FY 2004 - $1.88 trillion.
  • FY 2003 - $1.72 trillion.
  • FY 2002 - $1.85 trillion.
  • FY 2001 - $1.99 trillion.
  • FY 2000 - $2.03 trillion.
  • FY 1999 - $1.82 trillion.
  • FY 1998 - $1.72 trillion.
  • FY 1997 - $1.58 trillion.
  • FY 1996 - $1.45 trillion.
  • FY 1995 - $1.35 trillion.
  • FY 1994 - $1.26 trillion.
  • FY 1993 - $1.15 trillion.
  • FY 1992 - $1.09 trillion.
  • FY 1991 - $1.05 trillion.
  • FY 1990 - $1.03 trillion.
  • FY 1989 - $991 billion.
  • FY 1988 - $909 billion.
  • FY 1987 - $854 billion.
  • FY 1986 - $769 billion.
  • FY 1985 - $734 billion.
  • FY 1984 - $666 billion.
  • FY 1983 - $601 billion.
  • FY 1982 - $618 billion.
  • FY 1981 - $599 billion.
  • FY 1980 - $517 billion.
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Revenue doubled in the last 18 years, meaning an average growth rate of 4%. Clearly the problem is spending.
 
mchammer said:
Revenue doubled in the last 18 years, meaning an average growth rate of 4%. Clearly the problem is spending.
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Spending is the problem, but there is something about the revenue that's worth noting. It has gone up but not as fast as it used to. Prior to 2000, it approximately doubled every ten years, and that trend has existed essentially since WWII. I'm not entirely sure what the cause of that is. I don't think it's tax rates being too low, because rates were lower in the '80s, and revenue still doubled. Obviously the Great Recession hit revenue very hard, but even before that, we weren't on a pace to double revenue.
 
Mr. Deez said:
Spending is the problem, but there is something about the revenue that's worth noting. It has gone up but not as fast as it used to. Prior to 2000, it approximately doubled every ten years, and that trend has existed essentially since WWII. I'm not entirely sure what the cause of that is. I don't think it's tax rates being too low, because rates were lower in the '80s, and revenue still doubled. Obviously the Great Recession hit revenue very hard, but even before that, we weren't on a pace to double revenue.
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The size of our economy is so large that US Real GDP Growth Rate has slowed. The tax cuts aren't helping but I think it's a size issue.
 
Seattle Husker said:
The size of our economy is so large that US Real GDP Growth Rate has slowed. The tax cuts aren't helping but I think it's a size issue.
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This is probably the biggest factor. Low inflation for the last several decades is also probably part of it. I noticed that revenue skyrocketed in the '70s (much more than doubling). Obviously I'd rather have low inflation than artificially high tax revenue, but it almost surely is a side effect of the low inflation.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Corporations have dropped to a modern day low of 7% of the tax revenue pie.
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That's a bizarre point that I have heard mentioned by other liberals as if it's a bad thing. We specifically slashed the corporate tax rate and therefore tax burden to encourage domestic growth and job creation. The trade-off for less revenue from corporations was the additional revenue from new jobs and an expanding economy over the long-term. I do agree that the growth of revenue always slows in the short-term after a tax cut but over time the economic growth compensates.

P.S. I don't know who is responsible but congrats to whoever hijacked this thread.
 
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UTChE96 said:
That's a bizarre point that I have heard mentioned by other liberals as if it's a bad thing. We specifically slashed the corporate tax rate and therefore tax burden to encourage domestic growth and job creation. The trade-off for less revenue from corporations was the additional revenue from new jobs and an expanding economy over the long-term. I do agree that the growth of revenue always slows in the short-term after a tax cut but over time the economic growth compensates.

P.S. I don't know who is responsible but congrats to whoever hijacked this thread.
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Maybe this groundbreaking scientific revelation will help restore the thread to its original arc.
 
I see that the article quotes OUBubba too:

"That makes sense, because it's usually hotter when that [star] is up in the air," said Stillwater, OK resident Asher Arps, 31, speaking to reporters as temperature rose to 110 degrees over the weekend. "I knew it lit things up, of course, but I didn't realize it could make things hot."

"The big star heats the earth, and the moon cools it—I get it," he added.
 
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