Germany's Refugee Crises
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Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
LOL - THEY REMOVED IT!!!!!!!
Liberals are the modern version of flat earthers
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/58ad5eb1e4b0598627a55e94
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Letter in the WSJ written by two leading Swedish politicians (Jimmie Åkesson, party chairman of the Sweden Democrats, and Mattias Karlson, a group leader in Parliament)
"Trump Is Right: Sweden’s Embrace of Refugees Isn’t Working"
The country has accepted 275,000 asylum-seekers, many without passports—leading to riots and crime
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-right-swedens-embrace-of-refugees-isnt-working-1487807010
"Trump Is Right: Sweden’s Embrace of Refugees Isn’t Working"
The country has accepted 275,000 asylum-seekers, many without passports—leading to riots and crime
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-is-right-swedens-embrace-of-refugees-isnt-working-1487807010
"When President Trump last week raised Sweden’s problematic experience with open-door immigration, skeptics were quick to dismiss his claims. Riots and social unrest have become a part of everyday life."
“Police officers, firefighters and ambulance personnel are regularly attacked. Serious riots in 2013, involving many suburbs with large immigrant populations, lasted for almost a week.”
“Sweden took in about 275,000 asylum-seekers from 2014-16—more per capita than any other European country. Eighty percent of those who came in 2015 lacked passports and identification, but a majority come from Muslim nations. Islam has become Sweden’s second-largest religion. In Malmö, our third-largest city, Mohamed is the most common name for baby boys
“The effects are palpable, starting with national security. An estimated 300 Swedish citizens with immigrant backgrounds have traveled to the Middle East to fight for Islamic State. Many are now returning to Sweden and are being welcomed back with open arms by our socialist government.”
“In December 2010 we had our first suicide attack on Swedish soil, when an Islamic terrorist tried to blow up hundreds of civilians in central Stockholm while they were shopping for Christmas presents. Thankfully the bomber killed only himself.”
“For the sake of the American people, with whom we share so many strong historical and cultural ties, we can only hope that the leaders in Washington won’t make the same mistakes that our socialist and liberal politicians did.”
“Police officers, firefighters and ambulance personnel are regularly attacked. Serious riots in 2013, involving many suburbs with large immigrant populations, lasted for almost a week.”
“Sweden took in about 275,000 asylum-seekers from 2014-16—more per capita than any other European country. Eighty percent of those who came in 2015 lacked passports and identification, but a majority come from Muslim nations. Islam has become Sweden’s second-largest religion. In Malmö, our third-largest city, Mohamed is the most common name for baby boys
“The effects are palpable, starting with national security. An estimated 300 Swedish citizens with immigrant backgrounds have traveled to the Middle East to fight for Islamic State. Many are now returning to Sweden and are being welcomed back with open arms by our socialist government.”
“In December 2010 we had our first suicide attack on Swedish soil, when an Islamic terrorist tried to blow up hundreds of civilians in central Stockholm while they were shopping for Christmas presents. Thankfully the bomber killed only himself.”
“For the sake of the American people, with whom we share so many strong historical and cultural ties, we can only hope that the leaders in Washington won’t make the same mistakes that our socialist and liberal politicians did.”
Statalyzer
10,000+ Posts
That's modern liberalism in a nutshell. No dissent from the party line allowed. Very cult-like. Heck, that's just as much fascist mindset as Trump, but the "not being president" part has masked it so far.
A far-left friend of mine in Sweden is busy posting links that must have been written by Baghdad Bob (Stockholm Sam) trying to refute all the claims about Sweden, including basically "No, Sweden is not experiencing more rapes than before, we've just gotten ahead of the rest of the world in encouragement women to report them without shaming or judging them."
MrD
Maybe finally this could happen. I remember over a year ago some Egyptian Billionaire wanted to donate land for this very purpose
and many others including Trump wanted to keep the refugees SAFELY in their own land or near to it for the day the countries might be rebuilt.
Maybe finally this could happen. I remember over a year ago some Egyptian Billionaire wanted to donate land for this very purpose
and many others including Trump wanted to keep the refugees SAFELY in their own land or near to it for the day the countries might be rebuilt.
What seems to escape the public conversation on immigrants is that quantity and density matters. In times past the flow of immigrants was slower and allowed for proper integration and assimilation. Now when we have immigration surges, the immigrants come in waves that can't be easily accommodated and then when they get to their destination country they form their tribes again and then start to create "little Somalia" or "little Syria".
Then you have white flight from these areas and they become slums and the immigrants resent their host country.
Building a Hong Kong style community in the Middle East is the best answer. It will give them somewhere else to go and we and the rest of NATO can shepherd it through the next 25 years with governance support and financial aid.
Then you have white flight from these areas and they become slums and the immigrants resent their host country.
Building a Hong Kong style community in the Middle East is the best answer. It will give them somewhere else to go and we and the rest of NATO can shepherd it through the next 25 years with governance support and financial aid.
Brad Austin
2,500+ Posts
I've heard many times the estimated cost to settle and support 1 refugee in the West is the same as settling 12 in a local safe zone.
It's common sense the safe zone option is better in every conceivable way, for both refugees and the West.
I guarantee DT has stayed neutral on Russia for two HUGE reasons...
1) Cooperate to eliminate ISIS
2) Work together on safe zones (greatly reduces refugees coming here)
Both are gigantic terror concerns for the U.S. with even bigger future consequences if not nipped in the bud soon.
Trump needs Russia's cooperation to solve both issues as Obama's weak policies let them become big dog in Syria.
Unfortunately, to be most effective we need Putin's consent in Syria. Even worse he holds the upper hand as Russia doesn't have an ISIS or refugee problem on their soil.
It's common sense the safe zone option is better in every conceivable way, for both refugees and the West.
I guarantee DT has stayed neutral on Russia for two HUGE reasons...
1) Cooperate to eliminate ISIS
2) Work together on safe zones (greatly reduces refugees coming here)
Both are gigantic terror concerns for the U.S. with even bigger future consequences if not nipped in the bud soon.
Trump needs Russia's cooperation to solve both issues as Obama's weak policies let them become big dog in Syria.
Unfortunately, to be most effective we need Putin's consent in Syria. Even worse he holds the upper hand as Russia doesn't have an ISIS or refugee problem on their soil.
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There's only one hole in the equation you and BOSDE (and the MEP) put forth, and it's the economic side. Like I've said previously, the influx of immigrants is happening first and foremost because of money. The humanitarianism, political correctness, white guilt, etc. are the political weapons deployed to shut up critics. They aren't the real reason. A shrinking labor force and tax base are the real reasons. If white people in Europe don't start having kids again, they're going to need large numbers of immigrants from somewhere. We'd be in a similar situation in the US if we didn't have Mexican immigration, but we're much better at assimilating them, and they're Catholic instead of Muslim which makes it much easier.
Also, be prepared because there's another political downside to setting up a Hong Kong-style community in the Middle East. What was Hong Kong? It was a colony. If NATO set something like that up in the Middle East, we'd hear about the Great Satan trying to recolonize the Middle East. We'd have idiots blabbing about the Crusades, etc. Not saying that makes it a bad idea, but we'd have to be prepared for major controversy and possible war.
MrD
I well understand Europe's need for bodies but if i read the stats correctly the bodies that have come in in those massive waves of "refugees" are mostly male. Of course they can commingle with the Euro women but first won't they have to learn not to rape?
Wouldn't Europe have been better to have some control over who rushed in?
and this ," but we'd have to be prepared for major controversy and possible war."
what do you think we, the western world, have now?
I well understand Europe's need for bodies but if i read the stats correctly the bodies that have come in in those massive waves of "refugees" are mostly male. Of course they can commingle with the Euro women but first won't they have to learn not to rape?
Wouldn't Europe have been better to have some control over who rushed in?
and this ," but we'd have to be prepared for major controversy and possible war."
what do you think we, the western world, have now?
Brad Austin
2,500+ Posts
Speaking in generalities, refugees are a net negative on the economy of their host country in the EU.
Their assistance costs exceed tax contributions as a whole and will continue to do so for many years.
Compared to non-refugee migrants it's pretty uneven and the employment % increase over time is markedly slower.
Refugee employment rate even after 10 years hovers just over 50% on average in EU countries. I'm sure studies on this are also inflating these numbers to paint a rosier picture than reality.
Not to mention they aren't singling out Syrian refugees. I've read startling claims of absurd levels of unemployment in that group specifically.
A higher proportion of 15-64 males, lower levels of education, and low familiarity with host language before arriving greatly hinders their employment potential.
Lacking desire to assimilate will continue to hinder education and host language improvements (holding down employment rates) compared to migrants who came for school or work.
Those who came for the latter reasons are employed at over 70% after 10 years...nearly 20% higher than refugees. I'd bet just Syrian refugees will be under 50% after 10 years.
Their assistance costs exceed tax contributions as a whole and will continue to do so for many years.
Compared to non-refugee migrants it's pretty uneven and the employment % increase over time is markedly slower.
Refugee employment rate even after 10 years hovers just over 50% on average in EU countries. I'm sure studies on this are also inflating these numbers to paint a rosier picture than reality.
Not to mention they aren't singling out Syrian refugees. I've read startling claims of absurd levels of unemployment in that group specifically.
A higher proportion of 15-64 males, lower levels of education, and low familiarity with host language before arriving greatly hinders their employment potential.
Lacking desire to assimilate will continue to hinder education and host language improvements (holding down employment rates) compared to migrants who came for school or work.
Those who came for the latter reasons are employed at over 70% after 10 years...nearly 20% higher than refugees. I'd bet just Syrian refugees will be under 50% after 10 years.
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Yes, but you have to keep a few things in mind. First, these men can work. Second, there are enough women among the "migrants" and among Turkish women whose parents came decades ago for them to find mates and bear children. And when they do, they don't just have 1 or 2 kids like Europeans do. They have 4 or 5 or more kids. Third, obviously most of them don't rape, and German chicks are attracted to them. They like the dark and mysterious appeal of them, and I think they feel a guilt complex about their past commitment to racial purity and want to "dirty" it a little to make up for it. And let's face it. These Muslim guys are a hell of a lot more masculine than your average candy-*** European guy. Many urban chicks claim that they want a sensitive, feminized guy. That's total BS.
These guys will reproduce. Some of them will reproduce hideous human beings who murder people, but BMW and Volkswagen will have plenty of grunt workers to staff their factories for the long term.
Of course, but that would take a lot more time. I think they wanted to get the population growth restored right away.
Of course we have controversy, but believe me, it can get worse. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but we need to brace ourselves. It will get worse if we try to set up a de facto colony for refugees.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
The key is that these camps don't become permanent. Unfortunately, without an end in sight to the conflicts in Iraq/Syria, that's a distinct possibility. The UN camps in Jordan, Turkey in which >1M people are housed have already existed for more than 5 years. A permanently unsettled group of people will eventually become dangerous.
ProdigalHorn
10,000+ Posts
Man Huffpo needs to work on its copy editing. That's brutal - my assumption is it's a non-native speaker, but clean it up a little!!
I don't think that's necessarily the expectation. Also, I notice people are focusing on the camp angle, but I think equally significant is the idea of a major economic development plan for war torn areas of the Middle East along the lines of the Marshall Plan. It would cost a lot, as the Marshall Plan did, but most would agree that the Marshall Plan paid off in a very big way. If done right, this could too, and if the US and the EU shared the costs, they'd probably be pretty manageable.
Well, it's looking less and less like Fillon is going to be her opponent in the second round. Link. I think the ethics problems are sinking his chances.
Also, though I mostly agree with Le Pen on Islamic migration, her economic policy is pretty bad if you're an economic conservative. Even Macron looks conservative next to her.
Mr D
You point out the male refugees CAN work
But are they? According to Brad's Stat it dies not look like many are.
How long can Germany keep these people on benefits?
If Germany had spent the same amount on visa programs to bring in skilled people who they had vetted how much faster could the country have seen benefits of skilled peaceful people contributing instead of draining?
You point out the male refugees CAN work
But are they? According to Brad's Stat it dies not look like many are.
How long can Germany keep these people on benefits?
If Germany had spent the same amount on visa programs to bring in skilled people who they had vetted how much faster could the country have seen benefits of skilled peaceful people contributing instead of draining?
They don't have to right away. The government views their presence as a long term investment - give them some welfare now when Germany has lots of money and can afford to do so, hope they eventually go to work, but most of all, hope they produce lots of kids who may work in the future. They could do nothing but have sex and make babies at taxpayer expense, and the German government would consider it a worthwhile cost. That's how dire the birthrate situation is. It's a dying country.
And it's a little harsh to bust their balls for not finding work right away. Keep in mind that the vast majority of these people are pretty recent arrivals (within the last 1-2 years). Even the true refugees with good intentions are in a country in which they don't know the culture, the language, or even the alphabet. Furthermore, they're in a country in which the economy is pretty regulated and closed (compared to the US) and where the people are pretty distrusting of outsiders. It takes quite a bit of effort for me to learn German, and I speak English, which is a Germanic language and much closer to modern German than Arabic is. It has to be much tougher for them. If you were dropped in a village in the middle of Tibet where you knew nothing about the culture, language, or alphabet, I doubt anybody would blame you if it took quite a while for you to find a steady job, especially if most of the people around you were afraid of you and didn't trust you.
They don't necessarily want skilled people. They're more concerned with quantity than quality. They have plenty of skilled people in their own country. Furthermore, by being in the EU, they attract skilled labor and professionals from all over Europe who are seeking economic opportunity. What they lack is unskilled and blue collar labor. (That's why I had to fork out 400 Euros (about $440) last year for some yard work that a couple of Mexican dudes in Texas would have happily done for $40 and a case of Dos Equis.) Besides, "skilled" people don't have kids like "unskilled" people do.
Again, I'm not saying they're making the right move. It's very shortsighted and dangerous. What I'd do instead is spend some money on public service announcements explaining the problem to the public and encouraging German families to have children and incorporating this into their education curriculum. Believe it or not, there's a bit of a stigma on German families that do have lots of kids, because many people view them as leeches on the government, which pays out cash to families for each child they have (the so-called "Kingergeld" program). I understand that sentiment, but it has gotten way out of hand. I'd also expand the kindergeld program. I'm generally not a fan of that kind of welfare, but they're at a crisis stage at this point.
Overpopulation is why Syria collapsed in the first place. Too many people and not enough jobs/resources. I agree that Germany should not have taken all the refugees, however I cannot agree the logical response is to encourage germans to also overpopulate to "close the race gap."
Competing to overpopulate is a slow march to destruction. It is the same as the US and USSR being concerned about closing the missile gap when they both already had too many missiles.
Is our goal soylent green? A person every foot? Do we want a massive pollution like China, no green space, and instability like Syria?
The birth control pill allowed western countries and Japan to get their population growth under control. We need to work on getting the rest of the world affordable access to the pill and get them to start using it. If they dont, we should block immigration. If other countries cannot control their population, sending their excess population to overpopulate here (or germany) should not be the answer. Those countries that do not manage will meet the same fate as Syria.
Unless we really fund the space program and start colonizing other worlds, overpopulation is not the answer. It is a tragedy of the commons.
In the long term, Germany doesn't have an overpopulation problem. They're not even replacing the people that they have.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
That's the problem most of the westernize world has. The social net that they've also built is also unsustainable with fewer available workers paying taxes.
There are really only 2 options: continue to maintain the tax base via volume of workers or reduce the size of the social net. Every time I see an AARP ad with Trump saying Social Security and Medicare won't be touched and directing the viewer to "call your Congressman" I'm reminded how little appetite there is for cutting social net programs. Greece was an International example of how little will there is to cut these programs in liberal westernized countries.
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Or revert back to the original spend social security system (not pay as you go) aka spending on/saving the money for what it was meant for and cut things like defense, waste (see defense) and other parts of the federal government to fund social security/medicare shortfalls until they are stabilized.
The cuts from elsewhere will be painful (so painful it will never happen), but short term pain now is better than long term overpopulation pain later. Most people only care about the short term so we are probably doomed either way.
If the third world developed and began using birth control like the western world which led to less pollution and more resouces for everyone... should society say "screw that, let's overpopulate to save pay as you go social security rather than reform social security." Anyway, all theoretical and wont happen.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Agreed. I think Paul Ryan might be one of the few sane people in D.C. as he's the only one trying to fix a broken entitlement program.
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