Germany's Refugee Crises
- Thread starter Musburger1
- Start date
BevoJoe
10,000+ Posts
I lived in Stavanger, worked as a longshoreman in Tananger. Great places for fjords are in that area and to the north along the coast. Bergen, Tronheim, Narvik are some towns that are very picturesque. Driving is a whip and you have to drive the length of the fjords, cross, then drive back, so its time consuming. SAS serves those cities, or used to or you can take a sea plane. For real adventure, head up to Hammerfest then drive up to Nordkapp. That's the most northern part of Norway, quite cold even in Summer. My birthday is in July and we had snow in the morning. In the south early June, the sun touches the horizon 11:30 pm and is back up by 1:30 am. In winter, its dark 21 of 24 hours. If you decide to go, you'll have a great time.
Thanks for the tips! That sounds like a lot of fun.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
And here it is -
"Le Pen Advances in French Polls as Security Concerns Sway Voters"
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...french-polls-as-security-concerns-sway-voters
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
"A 14-year-old child bride from Syria came to Sweden and became pregnant with her husband, who is also her cousin. Now a Swedish court has approved of her marriage, because she appears "mature," and for religious and cultural reasons.
The girl was married off to a cousin when she was only twelve years old...."
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.3723/swedish-court-approves-of-child-marriage.html
The girl was married off to a cousin when she was only twelve years old...."
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.3723/swedish-court-approves-of-child-marriage.html
I'm actually not a big fan of this. I'm a believer in the idea that if you visit another nation, you should make a reasonable effort to respect and adopt the cultural practices of that nation. You're in their house. If Le Pen is going to Lebanon (which she presumably knows is a majority Islamic country) and meeting with an Islamic religious leader in his domain, she should put on the scarf. Frankly, this looks like a publicity stunt more than anything else. If she really had a big problem with it, she shouldn't have gone.
Unlike most liberals, I'm consistent. They'll rip Le Pen for being disrespectful but then they'll sanctimoniously lecture Europeans and Americans about how accommodating and tolerant they need to be to the cultures of people who visit their countries. Garbage. I don't think Muslims who go to Europe should look, talk, and dress like they live in Afghanistan. I'm not saying it should be illegal for them to do it, but they shouldn't do it.
And by the way, I practice what I preach. In Texas, if I went to HEB, I'd put on jogging shorts, t-shirt, sneakers, or whatever was comfortable. I didn't care if my hair was a mess, because I'd put on a baseball cap like many men do. Obviously, I spoke English to store employees. That's not the custom here. Respectable Germans don't dress like slobs in public, and only street thugs wear baseball caps. So when I go to a German retailer of any kind, I put on a pair of pants (at least a pair of jeans) and a reasonably nice shirt. I always comb my hair and avoid baseball caps, and I at least try to speak German to store employees. That's the bare minimum - what I'd wear to a Walmart-level retailer. I don't do that because they'll kick me out if I dress like a slob but because not doing so is disrespectful to their cultural norms and to their businesses.
Likewise, if I visited a Muslim country, I'd at least make an effort to respect their culture. I wouldn't pretend to convert to Islam, but if they wanted me to wear some hat in particular places or to meet with particular people, I'd do it out of respect. If I visited a Jewish holy site and they wanted me to put a yarmulke or some other head covering, I'd wear it. I'm not a Jew, and I'm not converting, but I'm not going to get in their face and take a piss on their cultural norms. That's how jackasses behave. It's not how respectable adults behave.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Maybe you miss the important symbolism?
The scenarios aren't similar. Parks was protesting something that violated the principles and eventually the laws of the country she lived in. She wasn't visiting a foreign land demanding to be treated outside the normal bounds of their culture. Furthermore, I didn't say that adapting to cultural norms is absolute. Segregation was a major imposition on those who lived under it.
Le Pen's actions aren't comparable. She was in a foreign country, where she doesn't have the right to dictate to the culture. Furthermore, she wasn't asked to live under a discriminatory system that treated her like a second class citizen for the rest of her life. She was asked to put on a friggin' scarf for a few minutes, and when she left, she could take it off and go on with her life. Sorry, she's not like Rosa Parks.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Does current Islam treat women worse than Jim Crow treated blacks?
I don't disagree. Islam is worse than Jim Crow. The problem is that the situations aren't similar. Nobody was forcing Le Pen to embrace Islam or live under its onerous requirements. When the meeting is over, she can go back to France and live any way she chooses. If Rosa Parks had sat in the "colored section" on the bus, she would have gotten off the bus and still had to live under segregation and face all the repercussions associated with it.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
+1. When in Rome, act like a Roman. It's a respect for their culture. I'd say the same thing if I walked into a mosque in Seattle. If they require me to take off my shoes, I'll take them off.
Personally, I just do not visit places that have cultures that I think suck, like North Korea for example. Most people in the world (and no this is not at all limited to americans) prefer to do whatever they want to do regardless of the culture they are in wherever they are. I do not really think much can be done about the majority of all people's nature to just do whatever they want to do wherver they are.
Brad Austin
2,500+ Posts
Barbara Bush, Laura Bush, and HRC never were asked/demanded to wear a head scarf on their multiple trips to the ME to meet foreign leaders.
As a matter of fact, no former first lady has ever worn one when visiting royalty in Saudi Arabia...where it is required by law.
You accept and invite a leader into your country as they are. If you can't accept their normal formal attire, you don't accept who they are and who they represent...so don't invite them. A head scarf is much more than an article of clothing.
As a matter of fact, no former first lady has ever worn one when visiting royalty in Saudi Arabia...where it is required by law.
You accept and invite a leader into your country as they are. If you can't accept their normal formal attire, you don't accept who they are and who they represent...so don't invite them. A head scarf is much more than an article of clothing.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Barbara Bush, Laura Bush, and HRC never were asked/demanded to wear a head scarf on their multiple trips to the ME to meet foreign leaders.
As a matter of fact, no former first lady has ever worn one when visiting royalty in Saudi Arabia...where it is required by law.
You accept and invite a leader into your country as they are. If you can't accept their normal formal attire, you don't accept who they are and who they represent...so don't invite them. A head scarf is much more than an article of clothing.
They weren't meeting with a religious leader in their mosque. When you go to a private club that requires you to wear a coat and tie do y'all always refuse? I guarantee that some of Trump's clubs require coat and tie for dinner. For those that show up without proper attire they have extra coats/ties to give the guests for dinner. How is this any different?
Clean
5,000+ Posts
By that same logic shouldn't muslim women in Europe and the U.S. be allowed to dress and act western?
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
I have no problem if they do. Are you asking should they be forced to? I'd say, it's common courtesy to act more western. I wouldn't extend that to their homes and churches though. Those are sanctuaries, IMHO. Of course, should they choose to wear a hijab that's not much different than an orthodox jewish woman who can't show her ankles or the man wearing a yamaka. Now, my philosophy applies to me. I wouldn't force that philosophy on others.
Brad Austin
2,500+ Posts
Not sure how that applies to what I was saying about dress attire of those representing their country and people on official government visits.
Along those lines, yes Muslim leaders visiting Europe and the U.S. on an official government visit should be allowed to dress in their normal Muslim attire.
If it's too beyond the pale for either side to accept, they shouldn't be meeting.
Seattle Husker
10,000+ Posts
Was Marine La Pen on an official government visit? According to her Wikipedia article she's not currently holding a government position but rather a party position. Are party leaders in France considered "government"? Through my American lense, I never considered Reince Priebus to be representing other than his political party.
Additionally, I'll reiterate, La Pen was visiting a religious leader inside a Mosque. She wasn't meeting with a government official in a government building. Like you, I wouldn't expect her to be forced to wear a headscarf there. It was a Mosque. Next you'll say she should be forced to remove her shoes either.
Joe Fan
10,000+ Posts
Some differences, some similarities. It's impossible for anyone to ever be in the same exact situation as Parks.
Parks is given credit as a civil rights activist for making a point. She took a stand by taking a seat.
Le Pen also made a point. And if her actions ripple through the future, she will have spoken for many more human beings worldwide than Parks did. We will have to wait and see.
The differences grossly exceed the similarities. Her situation is much closer to my visit to the local grocery store than it is to Rosa Parks' bus ride.
Yes, she made a point, but it was cheap and contrived. It looks a lot more like the gay couple that needlessly goes to a Christian bakery just to screw with them than like any kind of serious stance for justice.
Clean
5,000+ Posts
Holy ****, that may be the only truthful piece that rag has ever published. Obviously a foreign contributor who won't ever get another column published.
Not only was Trump right (which everybody knew in the first place), but he may have precognition!
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