Fossil fish nixes Intelligent Design

Here are my two cents.

The words ID and Creationism, and Creation Science, mean different things to different people.
I would probably say I believe in Creationism. By that I mean that God created everything that exists. I do not mean to comment on the 'how' God created everything.
I believe in science, but because I believe God created everything, I believe that God created science. This is what, I believe the major point of contention is. How do I prove that God created all things including science? I can't. Not only am I not able to, it just doesn't make sense to try to use science, or the scientific method to find out who or what created science if anything.
On this point I believe in talking about religion/philophosy in the science classroom. I want people to understand that ALL people approach science with an a priori belief about the subject of science itself. Some walk into a science classroom believing ONLY in the physical material world. Others walk in, believing in a spiritual realm, including a God or gods who may or may not have influenced the creation of things. This is NOT the subject of science in anyway, but it does effect the way we look at scientific facts.
God is beyond the realm of science for believers, and irrelevant to science for non-believers. Therein lies the rub as I see it.
Lastly, I make this point. If we could get kids in this country interested enough in learning to give a crap about this it would be great. Unfortunately, they are too busy watching reality tv on MTV, texing friends, being lazy and feeling entitled.
 
Red Five,
Do you not believe that the philosophical or religious worldview of a person has any bearing on how they interpret scientific facts?
 
In reply to:
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disproving intelligent design is as impossible (and really the same thing i believe) as disproving the existence of god(s)
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WTF? So now the existence of god is a given? ********. Prove it.
 
THEU- you don't understand scientific theory do you? it's now what you hope it's what you can prove and then your theorize about what you know.

Intelligent Design advocates don't use science, they use their religious beliefs in a non-scientific manner. There is NO scientific basis in these beliefs and their beliefs are not any more valid that the Spaghetti man theory...

Sorry but that's the truth and there's the rub, Indelligent Design simply isn't science...
 
THEU, as GT WT has pointed out, there are many, many scientists that are perfectly capable of seperating their science and their religiious beliefs.
 
The Link

I agree with that basic definition. But all matters of knowledge are not subject to the scientific method.

The belief in God is not testable. Neither is the non-beleif in God. Religion and much in philosophy are NOT subject to the scientific method. Some of these none testable beliefs are believed a priori, or BEFORE you approach scientific facts which are then interpreted and put together into theories. Do we not agree on that as fact?
 
Red Five,
I will disagree with you on that point. Now, I am not saying that religious belief should determine or influence the outcome of a scientific experiment. But religious belief superceeds scientific belief. At the point it doesn't then scientific belief itself becomes by nature religious. I do believe there are many who treat science as religion.
 
GT,
I disagree with the proposition that science and religion do not overlap. I believe that God created all things. It is a commonly held Xian belief that God created humans. It is highly debated even among Xians about HOW God created humans.
This would be just one point, and a major one at that in which the two overlap.
 
Theu, I have no problems with your belief. You can believe Genesis to be literal, blow-by-blow account of how man and creation came to be for all I care. Just don't try to teach Genesis in a science classroom. I will oppose you and the courts will find in my favor.

Just as importantly I suspect that other religious parents, who believe different creation myths than you, will be even more upset than I.

texasflag.gif
 
I am amazed at the staying power of this tiff and the disconnect between the various 'sides.'

By my lights the only things that are important to remember are ID and the scientific method should be kept in separate class rooms under separate academic rubrics (Bio over here, Philo over there) and those pushing the ID agenda these last ten years or so should be held in the highest of suspicion while being kept far away from the process of deciding what should be allowed in the science room. You want to mention religion in the science class in re the philosophy of science, cool, in brief, no prob. Don't let Dembski or Behe or their dull-witted believer brethren make the decision. They ride the Trojan Horse.
 
I think it would be a good idea to discuss religion in schools, public or otherwise. I think it is an incredibly important lens to understand how the world functions and how people behave. This is true if you believe in God or even if you don't, it provides context for where we are as a civilization, and is an important facet of understanding the world we live in.

That said, you don't discuss religion in science class for the same reasons you don't teach french in algebra class. Science teachers are simply not qualified to speak to theology, nor should they be required to be. We hired them to teach "science", and it is science alone that they should teach. ID is not simply not a scientific theory by any definition. If it is not science, then why is it incumbent on science teachers to discuss it... even as an aside?

It isn't a knee jerk reaction to exclude a non-scientific idea from a science class... and I have yet to hear a rational reason to do anything else.
 
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