Forensic Audit in Maricopa County, AZ

Garmel said:
LOL! No, I'm not in Arizona. Poor wording on my part.

This is why I detest having actual conversations with you. Do you understand the difference between bias and actual lying? One member of the team has bias. The Board has been caught lying and on more than one occasion. What part of that did you not understand when I stated that above?
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"Poor wording" like when Ben Cotton, while supposedly under oath said the "data was missing but we're confident it can be retrieved" which was different than the initial claim that the data was deleted? That is what the Board responded to you that you are claiming as lying. He later removed the ambiguity with a follow-up statement that the Board of Sup didn't respond to that I'm aware of.

This may be a surprise but the Board can't definitively explain why the data wasn't there because they weren't involved in the copy process and don't have access to what Ben Cotton and CyFir is claiming. They can only see the Election servers and stated publicly the data was there. Ben Cotton hasn't even been transparent about how the servers were copied, what software, what configuration settings...nothing...just that they were copied.

Do you see the problem here? Already the "auditors" have screwed up. They released the election servers back to the County before any independent verification that the copy was exact or that the copy process would suffice. They didn't have any independent verification of the servers. At this point anything that is claimed or surfaced is open to scrutiny, Republican vs. Republican. This is why independent auditing exists.
 
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Sydney Powell, Jenna Ellis, Lin Wood, and Rudi Giuliani are the lawyers.
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A gaggle of clowns who got their asses handed to them in court and didn't understand basic standing principles? Yeah, I'm not going to give them a lot of deference. Either way, I haven't heard even them say the military can or should take action.

Mike Pompeo, Michael Flynn, and General McIllerney are the current or former generals.
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Do you have a link to their comments about the military acting?

It could come to that and it’s in the constitution. I would have to look up where and I don’t have time now. I would rather it not come to that, my daughter is in the Army. This is all uncharted territory, it’s never happened before.
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I might have been hungover that day in Constitutional Law, but I don't recall a constitutional provision authorizing the military to oust a sitting president. I do recall impeachment and removal by Congress being the only mechanism for doing that. I also recall that the military answers to its commander in chief, who is the President. In other words, Biden would have to order the military to oust himself. Going out on a limb here, but I don't think that's going to happen.

The good news is that your daughter is safe (at least on this).
 
Seattle Husker said:
"Poor wording" like when Ben Cotton, while supposedly under oath said the "data was missing but we're confident it can be retrieved" which was different than the initial claim that the data was deleted? That is what the Board responded to you that you are claiming as lying. He later removed the ambiguity with a follow-up statement that the Board of Sup didn't respond to that I'm aware of.

The Board simply said the data wasn't deleted on their servers and offered up reasons for why it appeared that it was deleted on the copies. Nobody knows the copy process but Ben Cotton yet his testimony was the "data was missing but we're confident it can be retrieved." This was after that AZ Senate Karen accused the Board of malfeasance.

This may be a surprise but the Board can't definitively explain why the data wasn't there because they weren't involved in the copy process and don't have access to what Ben Cotton and CyFir is claiming. They can only see the Election servers and stated publicly the data was there. Ben Cotton hasn't even been transparent about how the servers were copied, what software, what configuration settings...nothing...just that they were copied.

Do you see the problem here? Already the "auditors" have screwed up. They released the election servers back to the County before any independent verification that the copy was exact or that the copy process would suffice. They didn't have any independent verification of the servers. At this point anything that is claimed or surfaced is open to scrutiny, Republican vs. Republican. This is why independent auditing exists.
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No. The Board and the media went AFTER him after his speech at the streamed hearing.

This article I just posted here proves what I said 100%. Arizona auditors backtrack, say no election data destroyed

Now read the article and it's headline. It says that Cotton backtracked. Right? Now read this part.

"He spoke at a livestreamed hearing called by Republican Senate President Karen Fann to demand answers from county officials about the allegation of deleted data and improper documentation of ballot storage."

This speech here at the hearing is where Cotton makes his "deleted" comment. Sorry, you're wrong. This was the speech I showed you before. This article came after his "deleted" comment.

The rest you've written is just too much conjecture that I won't delve into. No one but the audit team knows the full story on any of this.

Edit-In fact by looking at the time this article seems to have been written an hour or two after that meeting.
 
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Garmel said:
No. The Board and the media went AFTER him after his speech at the streamed hearing.

This article I just posted here proves what I said 100%. Arizona auditors backtrack, say no election data destroyed

Now read the article and it's headline. It says that Cotton backtracked. Right? Now read this part.

"He spoke at a livestreamed hearing called by Republican Senate President Karen Fann to demand answers from county officials about the allegation of deleted data and improper documentation of ballot storage."

This speech here at the hearing is where Cotton makes his "deleted" comment. Sorry, you're wrong. This was the speech I showed you before. This article came after his "deleted" comment.

The rest you've written is just too much conjecture that I won't delve into. No one but the audit team knows the full story on any of this.
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Or, the people who've already audited the election. SMMFH
 
Garmel said:
The court will have to get their own audit team probably to overlook the work done in AZ.

If there's blatant fraud like machine printed ovals or mail in ballots that were not folded the fraud will be easy to detect.

Things that are missing like adjudicated ballots are going to to be hard to prove in court. It's the Board vs the auditors word so that will be tricky. I know who I trust more but the court may not feel that way.
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It's very unlikely to actually get tested in court. For starters, the auditors are going to have a hard time surviving an expert witness challenge. Even if they do, I don't see what relief the court could grant that would remedy the situation.
 
Mr. Deez said:
It's very unlikely to actually get tested in court. For starters, the auditors are going to have a hard time surviving an expert witness challenge. Even if they do, I don't see what relief the court could grant that would remedy the situation.
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Court would be hard. I agree on that. However, the expert witness thing is a perplexing thing to say. Please tell me you're not falling for this "amateur" ******** or am I misunderstanding you?
 
Garmel said:
However, the expert witness thing is a perplexing thing to say. Please tell me you're not falling for this "amateur" ******** or am I misunderstanding you?
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If you Google "Daubert standard," you'll see what I mean. There's definite vulnerability on the issue. But the lack of a judicial remedy is the bigger problem. Even if the court admitted the testimony and was convinced by it, it has no remedy, and courts can't hand down advisory opinions.
 
Mr. Deez said:
If you Google "Daubert standard," you'll see what I mean. There's definite vulnerability on the issue. But the lack of a judicial remedy is the bigger problem. Even if the court admitted the testimony and was convinced by it, it has no remedy, and courts can't hand down advisory opinions.
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With forensic auditing being a newer science I can see why it would be hard for it pass the Daubert standard. Personally, I'm just looking for more states to go the Georgia way. On top of that if we can show strong evidence that the dems did cheat in 2020 these audits will be worth it because it will hurt the dems in 2022. I really don't think there's any chance of any one being put back in office regardless of the evidence found.
If I'm wrong and there's nothing there I'll just have accept it and move on. We've all had our Russian collusion moment at one time or the other.
 
Garmel said:
No. The Board and the media went AFTER him after his speech at the streamed hearing.

This article I just posted here proves what I said 100%. Arizona auditors backtrack, say no election data destroyed

Now read the article and it's headline. It says that Cotton backtracked. Right? Now read this part.

"He spoke at a livestreamed hearing called by Republican Senate President Karen Fann to demand answers from county officials about the allegation of deleted data and improper documentation of ballot storage."

This speech here at the hearing is where Cotton makes his "deleted" comment. Sorry, you're wrong. This was the speech I showed you before. This article came after his "deleted" comment.

The rest you've written is just too much conjecture that I won't delve into. No one but the audit team knows the full story on any of this.

Edit-In fact by looking at the time this article seems to have been written an hour or two after that meeting.
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Rather than throw articles at each other let's go right to the source.

Ben Cotton lays out some analysis on how they determined some tables were deleted but doesn't say what software they used. He then goes on to say (paraphrasing all quotes) "yes they were deleted but it's a moot point because we've recovered the data" full stop. Then everyone laughs and says "that's good news". So, this critical point and accusation that the master tables were deleted is now a "moot point". You have the Board of Supvs saying "it wasn't deleted, something must have happened during the copy process" and Ben Cotton saying "it was deleted but it's a moot point because we have what we need".

Remember the initial claim by the AZ Senate. They accused Maricopa County of deleting these Master tables making it impossible to audit the machines. Maricopa County said "no we didn't, here's where you should look for those tables". Ben Cotton says "yes, we believed they were deleted but recovered them" though he didn't say how. Maricopa County said, "see, the data was there" and Ben Cotton says "no, it was deleted and I'm not going to tell you how I found them but we're all good now". If the auditors believed that the County had deleted them to hide something do you think they'd go "this is all moot now"? Seriously, they caught them red handed if the files were truly deleted. Instead, it's moot and they carry on about their way, not to address it other than to follow-up later in the day after the meeting and response from Maricopa County to say "the files WERE deleted" in a tweet.

To say Maricopa BoS is lying, the media is lying or anyone is lying you'd have to have bias towards one side or the other. Nothing is proven and at this point the BEST you're going to get is buying one side over the other in a finger pointing match. You've chosen to accept Ben Cotton. That's your bias.
 
Garmel said:
On top of that if we can show strong evidence that the dems did cheat in 2020 these audits will be worth it because it will hurt the dems in 2022.
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That's the goal of all this endeavor. The goal is to "hurt the dems in 2022". Full stop. It's not for any remedy or even justice. It's 100% political pablum with the goal of spending 10's of $millions$ of private donor money and county defense costs to not really achieve anything other than justifiying voter suppression matters and convincing an ignorant 50% of Republicans that they were cheated to energize them to vote in 2022.
 
Seattle Husker said:
Rather than throw articles at each other let's go right to the source.

Ben Cotton lays out some analysis on how they determined some tables were deleted but doesn't say what software they used. He then goes on to say (paraphrasing all quotes) "yes they were deleted but it's a moot point because we've recovered the data" full stop. Then everyone laughs and says "that's good news". So, this critical point and accusation that the master tables were deleted is now a "moot point". You have the Board of Supvs saying "it wasn't deleted, something must have happened during the copy process" and Ben Cotton saying "it was deleted but it's a moot point because we have what we need".

Remember the initial claim by the AZ Senate. They accused Maricopa County of deleting these Master tables making it impossible to audit the machines. Maricopa County said "no we didn't, here's where you should look for those tables". Ben Cotton says "yes, we believed they were deleted but recovered them" though he didn't say how. Maricopa County said, "see, the data was there" and Ben Cotton says "no, it was deleted and I'm not going to tell you how I found them but we're all good now". If the auditors believed that the County had deleted them to hide something do you think they'd go "this is all moot now"? Seriously, they caught them red handed if the files were truly deleted. Instead, it's moot and they carry on about their way, not to address it other than to follow-up later in the day after the meeting and response from Maricopa County to say "the files WERE deleted" in a tweet.

To say Maricopa BoS is lying, the media is lying or anyone is lying you'd have to have bias towards one side or the other. Nothing is proven and at this point the BEST you're going to get is buying one side over the other in a finger pointing match. You've chosen to accept Ben Cotton. That's your bias.
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Yep, he says it's all moot and everyone has a laugh. Do you know why they laughed? Sounded like sarcasm to me. You didn't detect that? Not trying to be a dick but there are a lot of times I have suspected that you're on the spectrum. You're probably not but it seems that way sometimes. You do seem to miss nuance quite often.
 
Garmel said:
Yep, he says it's all moot and everyone has a laugh. Do you know why they laughed? Sounded like sarcasm to me. You didn't detect that? Not trying to be a dick but there are a lot of times I have suspected that you're on the spectrum. You're probably not but it seems that way sometimes. You do seem to miss nuance quite often.
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Man, you always get personal. I can't help you make your arguments, especially when they are so flimsy at times. You see what you want to see. You see sarcasm. I see demonstrable bias. Want to call me autistic again?
 
Seattle Husker said:
Man, you always get personal. I can't help you make your arguments, especially when they are so flimsy at times. You see what you want to see. You see sarcasm. I see demonstrable bias. Want to call me autistic again?
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Why do you think he said "moot" and the laughter afterwards? He's mocking SCOTUS' post-election rulings, bud. Sure, I'll call you autistic again if you want. Quit acting like Rain Man and I won't.
 
Garmel said:
Why do you think he said "moot" and the laughter afterwards? He's mocking SCOTUS' post-election rulings, bud. Sure, I'll call you autistic again if you want. Quit acting like Rain Man and I won't.
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Make a cogent argument. Nobody laughed at moot unless you want to makw the argument that it took 2 minutes 10 seconds for anyone to get the joke.
 
Declaration of Independence:
“Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.”
 
Seattle Husker said:
Make a cogent argument. Nobody laughed at moot unless you want to makw the argument that it took 2 minutes 10 seconds for anyone to get the joke.
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Your whole interpretation of what he said in regards to "moot" looks to be wrong. He didn't say it was moot. He said it MIGHT be moot, which pretty much changes the meaning of the sentence. Listen to it again.
 
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Conclusion:
The Committee can confidently assert that it has been thorough in examination of numerous allegations of unlawful actions, improper procedures, fraud, vote theft, or any other description which would cause citizens to doubt the integrity of Michigan’s 2020 election results. Our clear finding is that citizens should be confident the results represent the true results of the ballots cast by the people of Michigan. The Committee strongly recommends citizens use a critical eye and ear toward those who have pushed demonstrably false theories for their own personal gain. We also conclude citizens should demand reasonable updates and reforms to close real vulnerabilities and unlawful activities that caused much of the doubt and questionability to flourish and could, if unchecked, be responsible for serious and disastrous fraud or confusion in the future.

Further, we commend the innumerable clerks, canvassers, staff, workers, and volunteers across Michigan that make the enormous complexity of elections operate so smoothly, so often. The complexity of the work and the dedication we discovered are astounding and worthy of our sincerest appreciation. We also commend the diligent citizens that took time to report problems and concerns they saw because they want and value fair and free elections above party or personal gain. If
 
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